The Energy Non-Crisis

Rock63

Great read....but the libs will never buy it!! Too much money to be made for the "Greenies"!! Glad you joined in, vinvanb needs some education on global warming.....I think that caribou is leaving a bad taste in his mouth.
 
somebody else's post got me to thinking

Somebody proposed that we suspend our trapsing around in space and playing sandpile on other worlds and stop some of our more exotic pet projects and spend that money here to solve our transportation needs. I think that's a great idea and what about the scientist? Think of all the brain power that would unleash.
All of those brilliant scientist, instead of trying to figure out how to patch a hole in the ozone that they can't say for sure hasn't been there right along, could be working on how to change sand into propulsion; the moon rover boys could be figuring out how to make a car that would seat 6 go 60 mph on a single energizer bunny "D" battery. Think of all the money that would be saved by all the prototype mock ups that wouldn't have to be built for warming projections. How to breed a caribo that would eat oil spills. It boggles the mind.
I'm sure that the Alaskans feel so strongly about this --for the good of America as a whole, of course-- that they will refuse any increase in their annuity checks. ;)
 
Reputable scientists

You may have heard earlier this month that global warming is now likely to take break for a decade or more. There will be no more warming until 2015, perhaps later.

Climate scientist Noel Keenlyside, leading a team from Germany's Leibniz Institute of Marine Science and the Max Planck Institute of Meteorology, for the first time entered verifiable data on ocean circulation cycles into one of the U. N.'s climate supercomputers, and the machine spit out a projection that there will be no more warming for the foreseeable future.

Of course, Mr. Keenlyside-- long a defender of the man-made global warming theory -- was quick to add that after 2015 (or perhaps 2020), warming would resume with a vengeance.

Climate alarmists the world over were quick to add that they had known all along there would be periods when the Earth's climate would cool even as the overall trend was toward dangerous climate change.

Sorry, but that is just so much backfill.

There may have been the odd global-warming scientist in the past decade who allowed that warming would pause periodically in its otherwise relentless upward march, but he or she was a rarity.

If anything, the opposite is true: Almost no climate scientist who backed the alarmism ever expected warming would take anything like a 10 or 15-year hiatus.

Last year, in its oft-quoted report on global warming, the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) predicted a 0.3-degree C rise in temperature in the coming decade -- not a cooling or even just temperature stability.

In its previous report in 2001, the IPCC prominently displaced the so-called temperature "hockey stick" that purported to show temperature pretty much plateauing for the thousand years before 1900, then taking off in the 20th Century in a smooth upward line. No 10-year dips backwards were foreseen.

It is drummed into us, ad nauseum, that the IPCC represents 2,500 scientists who together embrace a "consensus" that man-made global warming is a "scientific fact;" and as recently as last year, they didn't see this cooling coming. So the alarmists can't weasel out of this by claiming they knew all along such anomalies would occur.

This is not something any alarmist predicted, and it showed up in none of the UN's computer projections until Mr. Keenlyside et al. were finally able to enter detailed data into their climate model on past ocean current behaviour.

Less well-known is that global temperatures have already been falling for a decade. All of which means, that by 2015 or 2020, when warming is expected to resume, we will have had nearly 20 years of fairly steady cooling.

Saints of the new climate religion, such as Al Gore, have stated that eight of the 10 years since 1998 are the warmest on record. Even if that were true, none has been as warm as 1998, which means the trend of the past decade has been downward, not upward.

Last year, for instance, saw a drop in the global average temperature of nearly 0.7 degrees C (the largest single-year movement up or down since global temperature averages have been calculated). Despite advanced predictions that 2007 would be the warmest year on record, made by such UN associates as Britain's Hadley Centre, a government climate research agency, 2007 was the coolest year since at least 1993.

According to the U. S. National Climatic Data Center, the average temperature of the global land surface in January 2008 was below the 20th-Century mean for the first time since 1982.

Also in January, Southern Hemisphere sea ice coverage was at its greatest summer level (January is summer in the Southern Hemisphere) in the past 30 years.

Neither the 3,000 temperature buoys that float throughout the world's oceans nor the eight NASA satellites that float above our atmosphere have recorded appreciable warming in the past six to eight years.

Even Rajendra Pachauri, the head of the IPCC, reluctantly admitted to Reuters in January that there has been no warming so far in the 21st Century.

Does this prove that global warming isn't happening, that we can all go back to idling our SUVs 24/7? No. But it should introduce doubt into the claim that the science of global warming is "settled."
 
If warming reverses...

If the alleged Global Warming trend reverses...

Will the Global Warming folks then prescribe their obvious remedy for global cooling which would be to pump more carbon into the air to warm things up ?

And will they then encourage me to drive my Big Block V8s and V10s ?

.
 
Some of us are old enough to remember the cry of global cooling and the coming of an ice age. That time the science and the greenies wanted change too. Were they wrong?
 
Huh???

When you add "AND it's caused by" then you have departed from science and moved into opinion, conjecture, or loony land.

Science involves searching for causes all the time. Do you really believe medical science doesn't look for cause and effect relationships??

Loony indeed!
 
Rock63............................................ .........

Don't waste your time with him.......................his head is as hard as a fist-full of jawbreakers!!
 
How True!

Phil,
You are not discussing the issue again. Just taking shots at everything you don't like.

It goes WAY beyond that. It's putting forth false "facts" in nearly every post, bullying, labeling everything contrary as liberal (or as he spells it "liberial"), and lots of rudeness.

Sad but true.
 
vivvanb........................................... .............

Drill Here, And Drill Now!!!:D:D Go to a site where most agree with you.......if that exist!!
 
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Vic, I have not called you anything but when asked a question by me, you gave an opinion and was called on it. I do believe you never gave me what I asked for but yet again gave off what you thought was right.

How do you feel about the global warming tax that they are trying pass? If it might be baseless is it still a good tax. Note, Inever even asked you if you think Congress will spend it wisely or not.
 
"the debate is over"

The only thing that is important now is that there is a warming trend and it's caused by greenhouse gases. The debate is over among reputable climate scientists.



...........a tad arrogant? And your credentials that allow you to determine which scientists are reputable?

You guy's are advocating "change" to the status quo...............therefore it's your responsibility to debunk the scientists who disagree with your contentions about man-made warming trends..............If it truly is THAT urgent, why doesn't ALGORE practice what he preaches.......he still travels by private jet, etc...................and he's looking to make BIG $$$$ from his crusade.



I see this "no debate" thingy is infectious amongst the liberals.............even Obama is shying away from any debating.
 
Actually, I'm not worried................

.....................you guy's are forgetting about that big oil conspiracy from 2 or 3 decades ago, where someone developed a real cheap alternative to gas, but one of the oil companies either bought the formula, or killed him, or bought it AND killed him.............so they wouldn't be stuck with all that useless oil.

But, there may be a glitch.................it may not pass the ALGORE clean and green test.:)..............................back to worrying!
 
NOAA data

The only thing that counts are long term average temps and they clearly show a warming trend in recent years.



Go to the website for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). They have temperature records going back to 1895.

Go to their monthly averages for all reporting stations in the Lower 48. That's averaging a lot of data. Lots of data.

Use the data from 1900 to 1999 (100 years) to determine monthly averages. That old Central Limit Theorem is working overtime with this much data and averaging.

Then take the recent data since January 2000 until now (May 2008). Subtract the 100 year monthly averages from the recent data (since January 2000).

Plot those 101 monthly variances on a simple trend graph. A fourth grader can do it. Again, each monthly variance is an average of lots and lots of reporting stations in the Lower 48. As W. Edwards Deming said, "Look at the data."

If you care to, do a little regression and calculate the R-square. Something that might be considered data analysis and not emotional or political.

The R-square is 0 (zero) to four decimal places. No trend. Na-da. And what slope there is -- is cooler.

Most scientific conclusions from physical sciences would expect R-squares in the 90+ range to get serious consideration in a scientific journal.

But Global Warming can declare itself to be beyond debate of reputable scientists with an R-square of zero.

Guess the Global Warming folks will credit Bush with putting a stop to rising temperatures. Guess they'll erect a statue to him.



.
 
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OMG........ you didn't just say that did you.......ROTFL

They have never had proof, they only spout out loudly that the sky is falling!
 
I appreciate that Vic, but you still haven't done what I asked nor answered my question. I asked you to comapare the trends of the past with todays trend. That was done for us though by someone else and it always shows that there is not global warming going on but weather trends that have always occurred throughout the past and are still occurring.

Careful what bandwagon you hitch your team up to because scientists that are after grant money can come up with some mighty strange facts and figures when they are applying for monies. When money is involved, you can bet your bottom dollar someone will try to grab the most by whatever means necessary.
 
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