The Energy Non-Crisis

I only wish he would name his sources. Reputable sources to whom, may not be very reputable to anyone else, but at least if you are going to throw them out there on every post, name them so we can all go back and check them out for validity.

Calling someone's proof junk science is what they have always done to discredit anyone that tries to say something else other than the modern version of the sky is falling.

Vic, I am not trying to give you a hard time. You keep giving tidbits of info and never seem to be able to prove any of it. Just do the comaparison like I asked and come back here with the numbers so we can all judge for ourselves please.
 
MORE FALSE "FACTS"

Phil Deese said:
Oil Exports
Until 1995, Alaska North Slope crude could not be legally exported, and the export ban contributed to a West Coast oil glut, reducing the price received by North Slope producers. Oil is exported from other oil-producing states with no prohibitions, however. Since mid-2000, no oil has been exported to foreign countries.
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North Slope oil has NEVER been exported, not between 1995 and 2000 or at any other time. ALL of it has gone to refineries on the US West Coast since oil started flowing in the Trans-Alaska Pipeline in 1977.

Another example of false "facts" posted by Phil.
 
WHO NEEDS TO GET IT STRAIGHT?

Phil Deese said:
The caribou real story!!

GET IT STRAIGHT vinvanb!!!:D:D:D
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I have it straight and already posted the key facts but you ignore them.

I repeat: The Prudhoe Bay vs. ANWR comparison is apples and oranges. The ANWR caribou calve on the Coastal Plain (where the drilling would occur). They have no alternative site. No caribou biologist in North America will tell you that oil development on a herd's calving ground is benefecial.

The Prudhoe Bay Caribou do not calve there, hence we cannot claim we know what will happen in ANWR based on Prudhoe.

It was you who claimed that there was oil development within the range of the Porcupine Caribou Herd and it increased 5-fold. Both claims are wrong.

Who needs to get it straight???
 
COUNTRYBOY

cntryboy1289 said:
Vic, I am not trying to give you a hard time. You keep giving tidbits of info and never seem to be able to prove any of it. Just do the comaparison like I asked and come back here with the numbers so we can all judge for ourselves please.
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First, you are not clear on what analysis you are asking me to do. Global warming is just that--warming of the climate over the entire planet. I do not have access to all the data required to perform this analysis. Nor do I have the patience to wade through a huge volume of data spanning decades.

Second, when I go to a medical doctor for treatment and he cites medical research that his diagnosis and treatment are based on, I do not go back to the original data and perform my own analysis. I TRUST that my doctor and those who did the research were competent.

Similarly, I trust reputable climate scientists who have almost universally agreed that global warming is occurring based on climate data over the past several decades.

Please re-read my previous post about non climate experts claiming to refute what the compent scientists have concluded.
 
Second, when I go to a medical doctor for treatment and he cites medical research that his diagnosis and treatment are based on, I do not go back to the original data and perform my own analysis. I TRUST that my doctor and those who did the research were competent.
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When I go to a doctor and his diagnoses is that I have a minor problem and a couple of aspirin will take care of it, then I am not likely to bother seeking a second opinion.

However, if he recommends major life-threatening surgery and removal of vital organs and replacement of their function with artificial means, I might seek a second and even a third opinion.

Given that the Global Warming worshippers are telling us they need $45 trillion to make inroads into the alleged problem, I think I will seek a second, third, and fourth opinion. And think a little personal research is in order too since it is so easy to obtain the data and plot it. Took all of thirty minutes. Not too much effort considering the $45 trillion bill that comes with the diagnoses.

It has been alleged in congressional studies that over 100,000 people die annually in this country due to medical ut-ohs. I don't want to add to that number. Might do a little more thinking about medical diagnoses in the future.

Understand that informed patients really do irritate some medical doctors. But other doctors actually like to have informed patients. The personal doctor that I use is one of the latter. He actually encourages his patients to get second opinions. And to become informed and challenging.

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Hammer1

You are absolutely right--by all means get a second opinion! And a 3rd or 4th. That is exactly what has happened in the controversy over global warming. The data have been re-analyzed by reputable climate scientists over and over--and guess what? The conclusions are all the same. Global warming has occurred over the past several decades.

But there is a big difference between getting a second opinion and trying to analyze the data yourself.

Getting a second opinion from a doctor is absolutely the best strategy. But trying to go back to reanalyze the original data from the research on which he based his diagnosis is foolish for an unqualified layman. Yet that is exactly what you are suggesting.

I repeat: I trust that my doctor and the medical researchers are competent. I am not a trained medical researcher and I am unqualified to re-analyze medical research data. And besides, the original data are unavailable.

Now, if the horde of pseudo climate scientists that claim they know more than the experts would only admit their deficiencies, maybe the truth would emerge.
 
The message I get from the "climate change" folks is that the U.S. needs to drop back to the standard of living of medieval Europe, while handily ignoring that China, South America, India, the Pacific Rim countries, and Eastern Europe will all be burning anything they can get their hands on...
 
Chuck............................................. .............

Sounds like you've got the lib's figured out!! This global warming thing is a religion to most of them....they want to take God out, and they think that we as measly little human beings can control the world that He created!!
 
Wrong again vinvanb........................................... .

Get it straight.................. We're talking about using an area as large as an airport in the state of South Carolina........if there are that many caribou we probably need to kill some of them off anyway. Drill Here, Drill Now!! 67% say let's drill.................18% say no and 15% don't know were their afoot or horseback!!! Your in the minority...........as usual!!! Sounds like your so called "EXPERTS" don't know what their talking about either. Why is it that when a lib finds someone that agrees with them they are the expert?? ROCK THE VOTE!!!
 
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This "Global Warming" hysteria, its a excuse being used to gain more control over our lives. Its the beginning of totalitarianism!
Don't let them fool ya, their masters at deception and manipulation!
vinny
 
And besides, the original data are unavailable.
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I do not have access to all the data required to perform this analysis. Nor do I have the patience to wade through a huge volume of data spanning decades.
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Wonder why you would insist that the data is unavailable when it is posted on government websites for the asking without charge and takes very little time to download even on a slow computer connection ?

Anyone competent in data analysis can determine if there is a trend in a matter of minutes. Doesn't matter if the trend is of economic inflation, human body temperature, the pH of a chemical process, or the weekly sales of a big box retailer. The laws and principles of mathematics and statistics are the same.



.

..foolish for an unqualified layman...
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I might take exception to your reference to me as "an unqualified layman" to analyze data.

On what basis do you make such a statement ?

Is your knowledge of my qualifications for analyzing statistical data as sound as your qualifications to refer to others as "reputable scientists" ?


.
 
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Global Warming religion cannot tolerate Freedom of Speech

Put oil firm chiefs on trial,

says leading climate change scientist·

Testimony to US Congress will also criticise lobbyists

'Revolutionary' policies needed to tackle crisis

Ed Pilkington in New York
The Guardian,
Monday June 23, 2008



James Hansen, one of the world's leading climate scientists, will today call for the chief executives of large fossil fuel companies to be put on trial for high crimes against humanity and nature, accusing them of actively spreading doubt about global warming...

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Like I said before, "The only freedom of speech the loony left tolerates is when its in lock step and barrel with their own" otherwise they shout you down and try every means possible to silence you. Hence the reason the Democratic party is all for "The Fairness doctrine". Their masters at fooling the sheep of this country through their marketing schemes. I wonder what its going to take to wake the Wolves?
vinny
 
The Tooth Fairy Is Coming To Your House Too

Phil Deese said:
...... We're talking about using an area as large as an airport in the state of South Carolina........
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If you believe that, you are worse off than I thought.

Check the size of Prudhoe Bay, a huge industrial complex needed to pump and move the oil.

If ANWR is developed it will require far more than what you claim for feeder lines, a pump station, and all the other associated development.

The propaganda about slant drilling and leaving a small footprint is designed to get a foot in the door after which things rapidly expand.

Prudhoe Bay expanded to the Alpine Field. Point Thompson is next. Why do you think ANWR would be any different?
 
Why should I care about ANWR?

(now here is where someone shows me a picture of caribou grazing in a lush wooded valley, with a waterfall in the background.... NOT!)

Face it - the place looks like north central Illinois in the dead of winter. I have as much desire to travel there as I do to travel to Midland.

And I haven't seen a giant "Prudhoe Bay" type of facility in southern Illinois... I'll see an occasional pump going, but that's about it.
 
Hammer1 said:
Wonder why you would insist that the data is unavailable when it is posted on government websites for the asking without charge and takes very little time to download even on a slow computer connection ?
.
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Please read my my post. I said that original data from MEDICAL studies is unavailable.
 
Hammer1 said:
I might take exception to your reference to me as "an unqualified layman" to analyze data.

On what basis do you make such a statement ?
.
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Again, the context was reanalyzing medical research data. It was NOT referring to you.

I am sure that you are a real whiz at data analysis. But are you a competent, qualified climate scientist?

Just curious.
 
Who Got It Wrong??

Phil Deese said:
Get it straight....
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You keep telling me to get it straight (and I have) but you get it wrong about exporting North Slope crude, oil development within the range of the Porcupine Caribou Herd, growth of the Porcupine herd five-fold, and on and on. When I point these things out, you just post more false "facts."

Enough is enough. This has gotten way too silly.

No more posts from me on this thread.

Have the last word, and don't forget to throw in a few more insults.
 
Why ANWR

anyway? The oil companies have not yet developed for oil extraction the 65 MILLION land and water acres they were given just outside these protected areas just for the drilling and production of oil. Has this gone unnoticed or do most not know about it?
 
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