Growing the IBS
- Thread starter R. Rains
- Start date
ray porter
Member
perhaps a new association is needed that pays money back? you might call it the precision shooting league and call it the PSL fpr short- wait scratch that, someone already has that.
Wilbur
i certainly would not exclude anyone not shooting a bat or a snake or a bear of some sort. one thing that might help is to have a weight class that would allow the hot shooting dashers to play. but yes, everyone goes to the line at the same time.
if the name of novice is the problem just call it a division as in division 1 or division 2.
Wilbur
i certainly would not exclude anyone not shooting a bat or a snake or a bear of some sort. one thing that might help is to have a weight class that would allow the hot shooting dashers to play. but yes, everyone goes to the line at the same time.
if the name of novice is the problem just call it a division as in division 1 or division 2.
Ray '
we don't need another association, We need to get IBS growing.
It has growing pains just like everything else. Maybe elimenating some rules or rule changes in the different types of shooting
maybe clasifications or both Also more dedicated shooters in clubs that aren't IBS clubs as of yet.
One stumbeling block is Getting the right People to be IBS directors at Clubs.
Here's an Idea, How about IBS traveling to clubs and presenting what
is in it for IBS clubs holding shoots. The $$$ thing kicks in. Most clubs have no idea of how much money can be made at registered shoots. More local shoots would also help.
Right now Group shooting is about finished for the year. We still have 2 months of some what decent weather to have shoots I feel the nationals are held way to early. We could have gotten in a few more group matches.
we don't need another association, We need to get IBS growing.
It has growing pains just like everything else. Maybe elimenating some rules or rule changes in the different types of shooting
maybe clasifications or both Also more dedicated shooters in clubs that aren't IBS clubs as of yet.
One stumbeling block is Getting the right People to be IBS directors at Clubs.
Here's an Idea, How about IBS traveling to clubs and presenting what
is in it for IBS clubs holding shoots. The $$$ thing kicks in. Most clubs have no idea of how much money can be made at registered shoots. More local shoots would also help.
Right now Group shooting is about finished for the year. We still have 2 months of some what decent weather to have shoots I feel the nationals are held way to early. We could have gotten in a few more group matches.
Gerry,
I said I was through with this, but I have to ask a couple of questions. Just where is it you think the IBS is going to get all the $$ to do these things you are suggesting? Now granted, I have no experience with group matches, only score. If you will look at the results of the matches held from Jan thru March and do a little quick math, I think you'll come up with around $100 due to the IBS for match fees. Now of course, this increases through the summer months, but it's not like ther're getting rich on match fees and memberships. A fair amount of the membership fee goes to PS and I'm sure postage and office expense eats more. I have no idea who is paid or what, but I sure hope Joan Borden gets something 'cause she sure earns it. Have you traveled much lately? Do you have any idea what it would cost to wander around the the country to visit all these clubs as you propose? BTW- Gun shows don't give you space for nothing either.
And you are correct, being responsible for benchrest at the Gallatin Gun Club, I haven't seen any of these big paychecks you imagine. By the time I pay someone to run targets, provide lunch and drinks and get awards, we are lucky to make enough on the good turnouts to make up for the low ones. We were invited to bid on the nationals a few years ago and when I looked at the expenses involved and the #s of volunteers required just to do the basics, I had to pass. So, just where is all this big money coming from?
Just what IS in it for a club to hold IBS matches? We held them here for four years and barely broke even until we started shooting UBR. You've had numerous posters tell you that benchrest is already hurting because of the expense. Are you seriously proposing to add even greater expense to the game to pay for all this stuff? What am I missing? I'm as interested as anybody in growing the sport, I just see your proposals as unrealistic.
Rick
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
I'd like to know what is in it for me to join the IBS. Two weeks ago, I sent the following email to one of the "in crowd" people at IBS -- no response yet.
"I've thought of joining IBS or NBRSA -- can you give me some reasons (other than, possibly, the ability to shoot in a registered match) to join? Also, could I get a complimentary copy of the monthly magazine to evaluate its value to me?"
BTW, I sent a similar email to one of the "in crowd" with the NBRSA -- no response from that either.
Greyfox.
If you get 30 shooters at your match you should be able to turn some profit, IBS only gets a small portion of the match fees as you know. The nationals always do well even when theres a drive. Ive never been to your club I grant you, but heres what you need today plenty of camper space with electricity, a good volenteer target crew from your club,
a kitchen crew That can be subed out to someone or volonteers from the club.. Plus a lot of hard work by yourself. I'm sure IBS can help in many ways too. stats etc. If you solicit some sponsors for your match{even little things} for the shooters i'm sure you would get a turnout. group matchs can charge a bit more these days, I'll leave details to Jeff.
I doubt Joan makes anything, she does it because shes an exceptional person. The board and its memebers are all volonteers also. I do travel {not alot grant you, but I would be happy to come to your club to help you get started
provided it's an IBS club and match. Feel free to PM me. By the way i'm not one of the so called in crowd. .
If you get 30 shooters at your match you should be able to turn some profit, IBS only gets a small portion of the match fees as you know. The nationals always do well even when theres a drive. Ive never been to your club I grant you, but heres what you need today plenty of camper space with electricity, a good volenteer target crew from your club,
a kitchen crew That can be subed out to someone or volonteers from the club.. Plus a lot of hard work by yourself. I'm sure IBS can help in many ways too. stats etc. If you solicit some sponsors for your match{even little things} for the shooters i'm sure you would get a turnout. group matchs can charge a bit more these days, I'll leave details to Jeff.
I doubt Joan makes anything, she does it because shes an exceptional person. The board and its memebers are all volonteers also. I do travel {not alot grant you, but I would be happy to come to your club to help you get started
provided it's an IBS club and match. Feel free to PM me. By the way i'm not one of the so called in crowd. .
aka hunter copy of ps magazine is available just call or send a note .
The advantages of IBS, Being able to compete in matchs sanctiond of IBS A subscription to Precision Shooting magazine. Haveing a true voice in the organization. Enjoying benchrest shooting with some of the best people you will ever meet. There are more benefits i'll leave that up to jeff to explain.
The advantages of IBS, Being able to compete in matchs sanctiond of IBS A subscription to Precision Shooting magazine. Haveing a true voice in the organization. Enjoying benchrest shooting with some of the best people you will ever meet. There are more benefits i'll leave that up to jeff to explain.
See the problems when you try to grow things beyond their natural setting?
I can answer Hunter. You shouldn't join either the IBS or NBRSA until you need them. If you don't want to compete against the best under a controlled setting, you'll never need them, and they don't need you.
On the other hand, if you hang out at where, Riverbend for you? -- waiting to shoot against Tony Boyer, Wayne Campbell, Bart Sauter, Billy Stevens, Larry Costa & on & on (sorry for the guys I've missed), it's not going to happen. Oh, that would be NBRSA & group shooting. There's another list for IBS and score or Long range, but it's the same answer. If you want to shoot against the best, remember that they're not going to come to you.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
The whole point of my requests was to determine why I "need them." At this stage in life, I don't need to pay stiff entry fees just to be beaten by the "big dogs" -- I'm fairly comfortable being beaten by other factory-class shooters.
You didn't understand a damn thing I said, did you? Are you totally clueless?
If you will take the time to go through the VFS match results for this season you will see that with the exception of a few state championships and a couple of national events, a 30 participant event is virtually non-existent. If we were holding matches with 30 participants we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Then the true answer is, don't join.
Though I'll allow there is a score match at Black Creek, Virginia, a sanctioned IBS match, where the entry fee is $15.00. The unsanctioned money shoots at my local club have a $20 entry fee.
Edit --
Here's the deal. I went back & read some of your other posts. Probably not carefully enough, or in context, but you seem to have gotten onto BR Central to try & figure out how to do better -- "how can you beat a custom with a factory rifle," etc. The blunt truth to that is, you don't. Yup, there are factory rifles out there -- somewhere in the 1,000,000 manufactured, that can. No way to find it (them?) though.
Realistically, if you're happy where you are with your benchrest shooting, you don't need IBS, NBRSA, or a custom rifle. If the benchrest bug bites you though, you're sunk (so to speak). At that point, IBS/NBRSA dues are the least of your costs.
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Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
This is funny -- here's a thread asking about how to increase the IBS and there have been numerous posts suggesting a factory class so not-so-serious shooters could compete with other not-so-serious shooters as a way to increase participation, yet we're told to not join.
I'm sure some of those not-so-serious shooters would enjoy shooting in the presence of the "big dogs" -- not only might a good number of such shooters participate, they might learn something and be motivated to jump into the full-custom mode.
BTW, you misinterpreted my posts -- I never expressed the thought that a factory rifle could beat a custom.
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Not to beat a dead horse -- you'd have to search the archives -- but as soon as a factory rifle becomes a formal class, there will be people willing to spend $5,000 to win with one, and a few even willing to cheat, depending on what the rules are. Not the "big dogs," of course -- those who can win in the regular BR classes.
This isn't speculation, it's happened. It goes well beyond typical discussions about whether or not a Cooper, a 40-X, one of the old Sako 6 PPCs etc. is a factory rifle. Even beyond whether or not some of the European match rifles -- which after all, are factory -- should be allowed. Take a look at a Grunig & Elmiger FT-300, for example...
Short answer is (1) no one can come up with a set of rules that will satisfy most people, and (2) even if you could, you'd have a hard time enforcing them.
BTW did you know that with a punch press, you can reform a larger case for a very good fit in an "oversize" factory chamber? Not sure you could take a 7.5x55 down to a "big" 6mm BR, but there is something larger than .471 and smaller than .495 out there, for sure.
That you can set up on the thread of the barrel, and cut all other surfaces true to that -- bolt lugs, receiver shoulder, barrel shoulder etc., and come up with something very close to a custom held to .0005 tolerances? Etc.
You *could* add a lever to a number of factory triggers to get a 6-ounce or less trigger. Etc.
There's the rub. How do you limit modification of factory parts? Prohibit it? Then it's a search by those that can (buy or have access to) among 15-20 rifles, pick the best, & sell off the others. That's what it would take to win in Factory class, one it becomes a National-level class. Or the cheaters -- how do you tell that someone has trued up factory machine work, for example?
It only works at the club level, and IBS already supports that, but the work is up to the clubs.
This isn't speculation, it's happened. It goes well beyond typical discussions about whether or not a Cooper, a 40-X, one of the old Sako 6 PPCs etc. is a factory rifle. Even beyond whether or not some of the European match rifles -- which after all, are factory -- should be allowed. Take a look at a Grunig & Elmiger FT-300, for example...
Short answer is (1) no one can come up with a set of rules that will satisfy most people, and (2) even if you could, you'd have a hard time enforcing them.
BTW did you know that with a punch press, you can reform a larger case for a very good fit in an "oversize" factory chamber? Not sure you could take a 7.5x55 down to a "big" 6mm BR, but there is something larger than .471 and smaller than .495 out there, for sure.
That you can set up on the thread of the barrel, and cut all other surfaces true to that -- bolt lugs, receiver shoulder, barrel shoulder etc., and come up with something very close to a custom held to .0005 tolerances? Etc.
You *could* add a lever to a number of factory triggers to get a 6-ounce or less trigger. Etc.
There's the rub. How do you limit modification of factory parts? Prohibit it? Then it's a search by those that can (buy or have access to) among 15-20 rifles, pick the best, & sell off the others. That's what it would take to win in Factory class, one it becomes a National-level class. Or the cheaters -- how do you tell that someone has trued up factory machine work, for example?
It only works at the club level, and IBS already supports that, but the work is up to the clubs.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
Okay, I'll cry "Uncle" -- and keep enjoying shooting with the "little dogs" for now; maybe I can stop by one of the "real" shoots one day and watch the "big dogs" run.
Gray fox
IM' referring to GROUP matches. Weikert had (98) + shooters this year.
Camillus got 48 Shooters this year. I have no idea what you charge for matches either..
Shooting score [that is fun], is entirely adifferent game. It was intended to get the average hunter out with his Hunting rifle. Now there are three different types of score shooting {short range}
You haven't followed anything/ The whole thread is about Growing Group shooting. and growing IBS
I wish you folks would stay on subject
IM' referring to GROUP matches. Weikert had (98) + shooters this year.
Camillus got 48 Shooters this year. I have no idea what you charge for matches either..
Shooting score [that is fun], is entirely adifferent game. It was intended to get the average hunter out with his Hunting rifle. Now there are three different types of score shooting {short range}
You haven't followed anything/ The whole thread is about Growing Group shooting. and growing IBS
I wish you folks would stay on subject
I will refer you to the opening post on this thread. Nowhere was group shooting mentioned. This thread was supposedly about growing IBS which sanctions long range, score and group matches. I was wondering how long it would be before some group shooter admitted that he didn't think score shooting was really benchrest. You finally did it.
BTW- I've followed this thread closely and read every post on this thread several times and I am on the subject. You on the other hand can't even spell my screen name correctly.
It might be worth noting that in your own words, score shooting was designed to bring the average hunter into the game. Looks like it may have worked pretty well. Many have correctly observed that score shooting has grown, while group shooting has dimenished. There might be a lesson to be learned there if you can figure it out.
Would all of you superior group shooters prefer that us inferior score shooters go away and not participate in this thread?
Rick
Gerry,
I truly can't figure you out. You reject the eveidence I, and others, supply as to what will and is working. You don't even answer my questions, but come back and offer to help when you have no idea what we are even doing. You say I don't know what this thread is about. Then you show that you have paid no attention to anything I've said by suggesting that my area isn't growing, when it obviously is.
But, I'M the one with the "ATTITUDE"?
Why would anyone want help from someone so clearly clueless?
BTW- Just how did I insult you other than to point out what you said?
Rick
PR2Shooter
New member
Here is a thought: Maybe it has been noted......Just saw on the 6mmbr that "The Potterfield's" have put up a $500,000 grant to the Boy Scouts of America to foster youth gun awareness/competition. What a great idea! Maybe incorporate that with BR Schools.