Growing the IBS

Classifications'
Heres just an idea , call it what you want as to names
Marksmen sharpshooter expert master First match every new shooter shoots in master class.
after an aggrigate is fired at a registered match they are given a classification.
Lets make it easy as to say .500 agg marksmen, .400 agg shapshooter .300 agg expert . 200 master.
something like that.
a card would be issued at the end of the match. when the shooter goes to the next match and sign up , He {she]
presents their card and is shooting in that classification. The continue shooting in that classification until they advance
into the next one by shooting the next benchmark agg. Of course we all are shooting our best for the agg win also.
It's worth a try. what could it cost? A few more trophys? or certificates? Of course we all could still play the
other games {like cash options] One group would also still get recognition.
 
GerryM said:
Classifications'
Heres just an idea , call it what you want as to names
Marksmen sharpshooter expert master First match every new shooter shoots in master class.
after an aggregate is fired at a registered match they are given a classification.
Lets make it easy as to say .500 agg marksmen, .400 agg shapshooter .300 agg expert . 200 master.
something like that....
.
Click to expand...

From many years ago, my IBM360/Fortran days, I feel that Steve Lee could incorporate the book keeping part of a classification system into
his Bughole scoring program that many ranges use today.
 
i think if you go look at the cmp/dcm system it would work here just different steps..we use decimals, they use 800 points and down....
use thier rules for class change and starting...i think it took three matches for a classification change...

mike in co
 
"Well in my mind there has been enough interest in this thread that the people in the position to make decision should take something from each persons response and act accordingly."

Don't think the "by laws" will allow that - you gotta get it on the agenda. Which means.....(drum roll).....that YOU are the "people in position".
 
awww but we are not in POSITION. we are hundreds if not 1000's of miles from the meeting. and by the exisiting rules it would take a bus load or more to change a rule.

a meeting held in the dead of winter when only locals have a resonable expectation of attending.
if they want change move the meeting..that they can do without the rest of us.
make it a split meeting at the short and long range nationals with each voting on thier own rules, and common stuff based on actual votes from both.

but you and i both know IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.cause the locals do not want change...so

a self full filling plan for failure in the long term..and the LONG has caught up.......

mike in co
 
Since talk is cheap here is my 2 cents.
We need one computer system to send all results after matches. And to vote on line on whatever.
We need classes from factory to unlimited.
We need to accept the fact that we need to change.

I know I am leaving, health issues, but more importantly there is no way in H--- that I am ever going to be in the top twenty. Or top 50, or top 100. Maybe the top 400.
It is just not much fun spending the money I am spending trying to win the 300th shooter award at The Super Shoot.
Centerfire
 
"awww but we are not in POSITION. we are hundreds if not 1000's of miles from the meeting. and by the exisiting rules it would take a bus load or more to change a rule."

That would be correct.
 
GerryM said:
Classifications'
Heres just an idea , call it what you want as to names
Marksmen sharpshooter expert master First match every new shooter shoots in master class.
after an aggrigate is fired at a registered match they are given a classification.
Lets make it easy as to say .500 agg marksmen, .400 agg shapshooter .300 agg expert . 200 master.
something like that.
a card would be issued at the end of the match. when the shooter goes to the next match and sign up , He {she]
presents their card and is shooting in that classification. The continue shooting in that classification until they advance
into the next one by shooting the next benchmark agg. Of course we all are shooting our best for the agg win also.
It's worth a try. what could it cost? A few more trophys? or certificates? Of course we all could still play the
other games {like cash options] One group would also still get recognition.
Click to expand...

Now this is the best solution yet........
 
Centerfire said:
Since talk is cheap here is my 2 cents.
We need one computer system to send all results after matches. And to vote on line on whatever.
We need classes from factory to unlimited.
We need to accept the fact that we need to change.

I know I am leaving, health issues, but more importantly there is no way in H--- that I am ever going to be in the top twenty. Or top 50, or top 100. Maybe the top 400.
It is just not much fun spending the money I am spending trying to win the 300th shooter award at The Super Shoot.
Centerfire
Click to expand...

Regarding a sanctioned factory class, we have four factory shoots a year at my range. Jusr one factory shooter shows up , occasionally, to shoot the club factory class at our IBS sanctioned matches. It's a stillborn idea IMHO.
 
I assume the people posting here are score shooters.

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/score/_scoreindex.php

Hard to hook up the names, though. And yeah, I know not all matches make it to the internet -- Kay C Young just sends results to the IBS.

But when all's said & done, it might be better to figure out how to shrink the IBS just a little...Here's a thought. You get two public complaints a year about how unfair things are, or how you've been cheated out of this or that, or somebody else is cheating to win... Any more, you're either booted out or you have to perform 50 hours of service for the common good.

Complaints about "conditions" are tolerated (though not encouraged).

Yeah, I know how well this idea is going to go down on on this forum.
 
a classic case of there is nothing wrong, nothing needs fixing, casually looking thru his rose tinted glasses.....

just one more part of the problem


mike in co
 
mike in co said:
a classic case of there is nothing wrong, nothing needs fixing, casually looking thru his rose tinted glasses.....

just one more part of the problem


mike in co
Click to expand...

You know Mike, the Internet's quite a place. I could find a description of your house, square footage heated & unheated, etc., given for your property taxes.

But I could only find one IBS 1000 yard match you'd shot in.

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/2011/Colorado/522/CRC.php

This another failure of the IBS? You've actually shot a lot of matches, but the IBS always leaves you off the match reports? That is bad.

Or maybe the IBS data is accurate. After all, you do claim rookie status at that May 22, 2011 match ... but you've been giving all the newcomers long-range advice for years now. Based on ... what???
 
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RR and Jeff Stover
To draw in more shooters you need to let them know about your matches.
Most shooters don't know anything about the IBS nor NBRSA and nothing is done to encourage them to shoot.
Flyers at local gun ranges,sporting goods stores and gun shows would help and a well written flyer could be posted on your website.
My club leaves them laying all over the range and our local gun shows put out tables to leave flyers on.
The flyer would naturally have all the pertinent data plus contact info for each venue with e-mail addresses,websites and phone numbers.
Shooters and members could print them out before attending any gun related function and hand them out to interested parties.
You need a spokesman that could get hit with a shovel load of manure in the face and come out smiling and you need to keep the curmudgeons out of sight.A welcome shooter is a happy shooter.This is actually more important than most things mentioned here.
Next you need to let ALL SHOOTERS know that nobody is above the rules and the rules are strictly enforced.Nobody feels left out ,picked on or singled out if the rules are the same for everybody.
Next would be to follow your own rules.I am not saying who is right or wrong but the fiasco about Colorado longrange should have been a wake-up call.
If it smells fishy it usually is and people notice even if they don't post.
Not trying to bust anyones chops here just sayin.
A warm welcome to new shooters without any intervention with the known "Special Shooters" goes along ways.

mike in co
 
Sometime in the past 5 years, I saw data for the dues paid for both NBRSA and IBS. There were between 1300 and 1500 dues-paying members in each, as I remember. There is probably a lot of crossover, meaning there's probably about 2,000 benchrest shooters covered by the two organizations, not 3,000. More in rimfire & black powder benchrest, & Schuetzen has a bench component, too.

Benchrest hasn't really been growing. What's popular now, I'm told, is action shooting, like 3-gun (rifle, pistol, shotgun). A while back, it was cowboy, another form of action shooting. IPSC's pretty big, too -- again, action shooting

If number of competitors & league growth is your pleasure, there are other, better shooting venues for you. Benchrest just keeps going along, since what, 1949 in its recent incarnation? Actually, it goes back to the big double-rest rifles of the civil war era (yup, muzzle-loading benchrest), but there weren't many of them, either.

Why should we promote benchrest? People find it, most shoot for about 5 years & move on to something else. A few stay for a long time. If he sport hasn't shown much growth for the past 60 years, that's probably good evidence that it will stay about the same, as a percentage of population. As was recently discussed, it doesn't have Olympics-type interest.

Marketing's not the most important thing in the world -- and a good thing that is. Should the Schuetzen folk be trying to grow their sport? Black powder benchrest? Probably not, they probably wouldn't succeed.

Edit:

The only danger I see to benchrest comes from trying to please too many people. That lets the politician types in & gives them more power -- whining & complaining is rich, red meat for a politician.
 
Last edited:
mike in co said:
RR and Jeff Stover
To draw in more shooters you need to let them know about your matches.
Most shooters don't know anything about the IBS nor NBRSA and nothing is done to encourage them to shoot.
Flyers at local gun ranges,sporting goods stores and gun shows would help and a well written flyer could be posted on your website.
My club leaves them laying all over the range and our local gun shows put out tables to leave flyers on.
The flyer would naturally have all the pertinent data plus contact info for each venue with e-mail addresses,websites and phone numbers.
Shooters and members could print them out before attending any gun related function and hand them out to interested parties.
You need a spokesman that could get hit with a shovel load of manure in the face and come out smiling and you need to keep the curmudgeons out of sight.A welcome shooter is a happy shooter.This is actually more important than most things mentioned here.
Next you need to let ALL SHOOTERS know that nobody is above the rules and the rules are strictly enforced.Nobody feels left out ,picked on or singled out if the rules are the same for everybody.
Next would be to follow your own rules.I am not saying who is right or wrong but the fiasco about Colorado longrange should have been a wake-up call.
If it smells fishy it usually is and people notice even if they don't post.
Not trying to bust anyones chops here just sayin.
A warm welcome to new shooters without any intervention with the known "Special Shooters" goes along ways.

mike in co
Click to expand...


BeatDeadHorse.gif
 
Ok i''ll give charles E one''
Lets assume ther are only 2,000 shooters total in both the ibs and nbrsa
There were only a few hundred in 1949.
Benchrest has grown , Not by leaps and bounds but it has grown.
I also wonder what the real numbers were in black powder back in the civil war days?.
Maybe a few hundred? Yes it is not for every one ''' Its for the small minority of people who strive to get the best out of their equipment and shoot the best they ever have in their entire life.
Accuracy and pure accuracy is the game played , called Benchrest''
 
GerryM said:
Ok i''ll give charles E one''
There were only a few hundred in 1949.
Benchrest has grown , Not by leaps and bounds but it has grown.
Click to expand...

OK, that was "day one." Usually only one way to go from the early days. I can hear the arguments now. Of course, you're right, there are two ways. Stop, or grow a bit.

Another thing to consider is there were 150 million people in the U.S about then. Now it's 300 million, and no, the increase isn't all illegal aliens.

And it spite of the current downturn, there is more disposable income.

Fine with me if you can get BR to grow, as long as it isn't by trying to accommodate people who aren't, by temperament, benchrest shooters. What's that? Well, why do we lose so many after they've shot about five years? It isn't an inherently compelling sport for most. You're not going to change the basic character by having classes (marksman, sharpshooter, expert, master), or sexier advertising.

Maybe you can come up with "action benchrest"?

Finally, go read Wilbur's post on "Do you have *the* money?" Sort of what I mean...
 
lol you are in the clouds somewhere.....
here is the problem...some guys that shoot br have disposable income...so they believe the rest of the world is like them....this is where thier rose colored glasses become improtant.
the rest of the us is sucking trying to make ends meet.....yep there is a group of br shooters that do not have an issue, and i am sure there are others that do not also....but the us economy as a whole sucks...so quit trying to tell the rest of us that money is not an issue...your head is either in the clouds or in the sand but it is not where near reality.

no they dont have the money....

charles and gerry a committee of two that see no problems with todays economy.....you two work for obama ???

mike in co
Charles E said:
OK, that was "day one." Usually only one way to go from the early days. I can hear the arguments now. Of course, you're right, there are two ways. Stop, or grow a bit.

Another thing to consider is there were 150 million people in the U.S about then. Now it's 300 million, and no, the increase isn't all illegal aliens.

And it spite of the current downturn, there is more disposable income.

Fine with me if you can get BR to grow, as long as it isn't by trying to accommodate people who aren't, by temperament, benchrest shooters. What's that? Well, why do we lose so many after they've shot about five years? It isn't an inherently compelling sport for most. You're not going to change the basic character by having classes (marksman, sharpshooter, expert, master), or sexier advertising.

Maybe you can come up with "action benchrest"?

Finally, go read Wilbur's post on "Do you have *the* money?" Sort of what I mean...
Click to expand...
 
Mike - the point on the money thing is that you have stuff that I can't afford because I spent everything I had and could borrow shooting benchrest.
 
i dont think that was me..i had to build my own 1000yd gun....
or stuff i bought when the economy and my income was ok..i have sold off most of my rifle and pistol collection...just to pay the bills..got so bad i pulled 3 small retirement accounts early...just to pay the bills this yr....
i could not afford the gas bill of a couple of guys on here that were talking about how many matches/miles thay had done so far....
mike in co
Wilbur said:
Mike - the point on the money thing is that you have stuff that I can't afford because I spent everything I had and could borrow shooting benchrest.
Click to expand...
 
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