Growing the IBS
- Thread starter R. Rains
- Start date
Score Super Shoot
I like the idea of a big money Score shoot.....a Score Super Shoot, if you will.
Do a hefty entry fee, 50% shooter payback, club keeps the other 50%. Make the payback a 'winner takes all' format at each yardage and percentage pay the top three 50/25/25 for the Grand. Host it at a facility with plenty of benches to minimize the number relays. The shooters could shoot for decent money and the host club would make some good coin.
Good shootin'. -Al
I like the idea of a big money Score shoot.....a Score Super Shoot, if you will.
Do a hefty entry fee, 50% shooter payback, club keeps the other 50%. Make the payback a 'winner takes all' format at each yardage and percentage pay the top three 50/25/25 for the Grand. Host it at a facility with plenty of benches to minimize the number relays. The shooters could shoot for decent money and the host club would make some good coin.
Good shootin'. -Al
Al,
That is what we do at our club score matches (50/30/20) for the VFS Agg. We have a match each month, and if we have three or more in a class other than VFS we give the winner 50% of that class money. I think everyone is happy with that, not a lot of money but it will put gas in the tank.
john
Mims, Fl.
That is what we do at our club score matches (50/30/20) for the VFS Agg. We have a match each month, and if we have three or more in a class other than VFS we give the winner 50% of that class money. I think everyone is happy with that, not a lot of money but it will put gas in the tank.
john
Mims, Fl.
The money thing? Humm I remember when a P14 enfield action tthat was worked over, and a decent barrel
won a lot of matches , He also won the nationals. It was written up in PS magazine.
At the time He was shooting against all kinds of expensive equipment.
That was then , the bar has been raised quite a bit. Practice is the key , not always money.
But to some degree one has to be able to afford the ammo.
Dedication is also a very important factor.
The bottom line is , do I like doing this? , and am i haveing a good time?
won a lot of matches , He also won the nationals. It was written up in PS magazine.
At the time He was shooting against all kinds of expensive equipment.
That was then , the bar has been raised quite a bit. Practice is the key , not always money.
But to some degree one has to be able to afford the ammo.
Dedication is also a very important factor.
The bottom line is , do I like doing this? , and am i haveing a good time?
It is, really. And therein lies the problem of growing any shooting sport. Growth means attracting new people, while losing as few of the current people as possible.
The attracting new people issue with benchrest is that while almost everyone likes the notion of being able to hit a fly at 100 yards (or 500 meters for the Aussies), it doesn't take them long to figure out that really isn't benchrest. Especially every day, and esp. when you begin to figure out that only the misses become important. .02 inches just isn't generally significant in "being a good shot."
Often they figure it out before buying the equipment, which is a good thing, I suppose.
But once they commit -- usually by spending a bunch of bucks (whether or not that's a sacrifice or not is irrelevant just now) -- comes the "now what?" Most of us aren't going to be good enough to consistently shoot in the top 10. Eventually we figure that out. Why stay with something you're not that good at?
Well, an interest in "innovation in accuracy" could be one candidate, but in spite of the announced purpose of benchrest, innovation is stifled by the rules. Barrel taper restrictions cut out all sorts of stuff, as do stock taper rules. Etc.
But there are still "little innovations" and "little technical improvements" people can investigate. Kinda of the purpose of this forum. Fun for a while, but eventually, you figure out that won't consistently get you in the top 10 either, and improvements pale beside the bigger possibilities prohibited by the rules.
So once again, why stay?
Friendships made is probably the biggest factor. And that's sort of a matter of luck -- you meet people everywhere, some become close friends.
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ray porter
Member
my skills on the keyboard will put this in a poor light but i will try anyway.
why wont classes work? because you wont reward the lower levels of master and sharpshooter.
first give 10% of the pot to the club. and then
if you split the pot and give half to the top shooters they will get what they came for. top competition and recognition.
now why should they care about the other shooters. well cause they [ the masters and sharpshooters put their money in the pot for the marksmen to win.]
now if you save out 30% of the pot for the sharpshooters they get a bone to chew on. they get a little reward. what is their incentive to improve? more money is paid to the sharshooters. thats incentive for me anyway.
the masters can get a little bit also, maybe 20%. to keep their interest up. again incentive to move up is more money.
now the club would cut the pot for maybe 10% at the beginning and the club cant lose any money.
there were 42 shooters at the road runner and at Michigan last week- that's 4200$ to split up at 100$ per shooter. 2100$ for the marksmen to split and 1260$ for the sharpshooters to split and 840$ for the masters.
there are many ways to split the pot and this is just one that popped up to show as an example.
at the shamrock we had 99 shooters so you could more than double the numbers for it.
personally i feel 2 classes are enough instead of three, and the cutoff could be the median of the agg. again many ways to split it up.
why wont classes work? because you wont reward the lower levels of master and sharpshooter.
first give 10% of the pot to the club. and then
if you split the pot and give half to the top shooters they will get what they came for. top competition and recognition.
now why should they care about the other shooters. well cause they [ the masters and sharpshooters put their money in the pot for the marksmen to win.]
now if you save out 30% of the pot for the sharpshooters they get a bone to chew on. they get a little reward. what is their incentive to improve? more money is paid to the sharshooters. thats incentive for me anyway.
the masters can get a little bit also, maybe 20%. to keep their interest up. again incentive to move up is more money.
now the club would cut the pot for maybe 10% at the beginning and the club cant lose any money.
there were 42 shooters at the road runner and at Michigan last week- that's 4200$ to split up at 100$ per shooter. 2100$ for the marksmen to split and 1260$ for the sharpshooters to split and 840$ for the masters.
there are many ways to split the pot and this is just one that popped up to show as an example.
at the shamrock we had 99 shooters so you could more than double the numbers for it.
personally i feel 2 classes are enough instead of three, and the cutoff could be the median of the agg. again many ways to split it up.
ray porter
Member
my skills on the keyboard will put this in a poor light but i will try anyway.
why wont classes work? because you wont reward the lower levels of master and sharpshooter.
first give 10% of the pot to the club. and then
if you split the pot and give half to the top shooters they will get what they came for. top competition and recognition.
now why should they care about the other shooters. well cause they [ the masters and sharpshooters put their money in the pot for the marksmen to win.]
now if you save out 30% of the pot for the sharpshooters they get a bone to chew on. they get a little reward. what is their incentive to improve? more money is paid to the sharshooters. thats incentive for me anyway.
the masters can get a little bit also, maybe 20%. to keep their interest up. again incentive to move up is more money.
now the club would cut the pot for maybe 10% at the beginning and the club cant lose any money.
there were 42 shooters at the road runner and at Michigan last week- that's 4200$ to split up at 100$ per shooter. 2100$ for the marksmen to split and 1260$ for the sharpshooters to split and 840$ for the masters.
there are many ways to split the pot and this is just one that popped up to show as an example.
at the shamrock we had 99 shooters so you could more than double the numbers for it.
personally i feel 2 classes are enough instead of three, and the cutoff could be the median of the agg. again many ways to split it up.
why wont classes work? because you wont reward the lower levels of master and sharpshooter.
first give 10% of the pot to the club. and then
if you split the pot and give half to the top shooters they will get what they came for. top competition and recognition.
now why should they care about the other shooters. well cause they [ the masters and sharpshooters put their money in the pot for the marksmen to win.]
now if you save out 30% of the pot for the sharpshooters they get a bone to chew on. they get a little reward. what is their incentive to improve? more money is paid to the sharshooters. thats incentive for me anyway.
the masters can get a little bit also, maybe 20%. to keep their interest up. again incentive to move up is more money.
now the club would cut the pot for maybe 10% at the beginning and the club cant lose any money.
there were 42 shooters at the road runner and at Michigan last week- that's 4200$ to split up at 100$ per shooter. 2100$ for the marksmen to split and 1260$ for the sharpshooters to split and 840$ for the masters.
there are many ways to split the pot and this is just one that popped up to show as an example.
at the shamrock we had 99 shooters so you could more than double the numbers for it.
personally i feel 2 classes are enough instead of three, and the cutoff could be the median of the agg. again many ways to split it up.
Ray I wasen't necessarily talking about money when it came to classifications, Just some recognition.
I think the money thing takes away from the game at times.
I do like the cash option game though. those who want to play for money can , but those who don't don't have to play that part of the game.
I think the money thing takes away from the game at times.
I do like the cash option game though. those who want to play for money can , but those who don't don't have to play that part of the game.
Because, you'll lose a lot of the existing shooters.
Good riddance, you say, we'll start over.
Which would be fine, except why not just start a new sanctioning body that recognizes classes?
Centerfire
Member
Note to Al and Sir Charles.
When trying to promote a match I feel the goal is to entice shooters to the match for a 'reason'.
The usual reason is respect among their peers. Maybe $ also. But who has the best chance of winning the money?
The best shooters. The top twenty.
Now where is all the money going to come from? The newbys are a good place to start but after a while the newbys leave the sport. So if 100 guys show up for a shoot and the top 20 are the only shooters that have a shot at the MONEY, how long does it take for the newbys of the day to understand that they may never win anything. Looks like you have 5 years or less to retain the newbys.
Takes a special kind of shooter to keep coming back. Wouldn't it be great if we could retain the 80% of our shooters who won't ever make it into the top twenty but are Competitors?
I believe this can be done with classifications.
Centerfire
When trying to promote a match I feel the goal is to entice shooters to the match for a 'reason'.
The usual reason is respect among their peers. Maybe $ also. But who has the best chance of winning the money?
The best shooters. The top twenty.
Now where is all the money going to come from? The newbys are a good place to start but after a while the newbys leave the sport. So if 100 guys show up for a shoot and the top 20 are the only shooters that have a shot at the MONEY, how long does it take for the newbys of the day to understand that they may never win anything. Looks like you have 5 years or less to retain the newbys.
Takes a special kind of shooter to keep coming back. Wouldn't it be great if we could retain the 80% of our shooters who won't ever make it into the top twenty but are Competitors?
I believe this can be done with classifications.
Centerfire
Charles I doubt the top twenty would bail out because of classifications. They usually shoot against each other from what I have seen. Once in a while a newbee sneeks up on them and beats them on occasion.
What would take hold is different shooters staying in for a longer period of time and eventually makeing it to the top of their skill levels, PLUS have a really good time It's the learning curve, equipment, inprovement People could start out with less expensive equipment over time
improve their shooting and equipment.
What would take hold is different shooters staying in for a longer period of time and eventually makeing it to the top of their skill levels, PLUS have a really good time It's the learning curve, equipment, inprovement People could start out with less expensive equipment over time
improve their shooting and equipment.
Centerfire
Member
Gerry, There is nothing like being in the top twenty vieing for who is going to be in tune, catch the brakes with the wind,
have that new Column bullet working. Wow that would be exciting. And to win the trophy and some money!!!!!
Too bad we don't have another top twenty just one rung down.
Centerfire
have that new Column bullet working. Wow that would be exciting. And to win the trophy and some money!!!!!
Too bad we don't have another top twenty just one rung down.
Centerfire
Bob Brushingham
Member
I would like to try a factory sporter class( No not the one we have now which is just another light varmit class less the 22's). Maybe a factory action with a # 5 contour limit and sporter stock. The use of bipods if one doesn't have the money for a rest like we normaly use.Scope power could be discussed. In my club we have a factory sporter class but only the ones with the factory Sako's in PPC win . I for one would not burn out the barrel on one of those fine rifles so that is why I am say you could rebarrel. I am open for discussion on this.
Brush
Brush
Right. But 20 people isn't enough for an organization. You'd get more than 20. Most of the "masters" would stay.
But how about the guy, like me, who after 15 years is still "average?" Anybody'd get tired of seeing his name with "Sharpshooter" after it year after year, so they'd quit. Finish middle or bottom now, a guy can think "I just had a bad day."
The problem with all you helicopter parent guys is, in looking for a way to give instant gratification to new shooters, you overlook the 80 percent of current shooters who are never going to the World Benchrest Championships.
I don't know, you tell me about highpower today. How many NRA types are (1) Sharpshooter class, and (2) have been at it more than a few years. Way, way back when I shot 4-position RF, anybody who'd been at it 3 years was an expert (or they had already quit), and if they didn't make master in a couple more years, they quit.
You're approach bets on always attracting new shooters, at the expense of the 80 percent who've made the sport what it is today. I'm surprised those of you who think that what we have sucks hind teat can't see how that irritates those of us who have put in a lot of time & dollars over the years.
Age old problem has an age old solution: Go start your own league.
I'm sure thousands will want to join just to hang around Sir Centerfire...
Charles i think you may have misunderstood my comment. Ive been shooting quite a while too and not young,
the money spent was for recreation. I could have spent it on other things tht interested me over the years
I also have shot smallbore in the past. A comment was made as to bailing out, Well that may happen but more then likely not after one or two years. The idea is to keep the shooters interested and competeing until they inprove their
skill levels to go from one classification to a higher one, that alone is some kind of reward .
the money spent was for recreation. I could have spent it on other things tht interested me over the years
I also have shot smallbore in the past. A comment was made as to bailing out, Well that may happen but more then likely not after one or two years. The idea is to keep the shooters interested and competeing until they inprove their
skill levels to go from one classification to a higher one, that alone is some kind of reward .
Brush I see your point. but heres something else.
What is a factory rifle? The new TC with the shillen barrel? a custom from remington 40 x repeater or fine custon one from any other rifle maker. We have been trying a summer league at 100 yd to attract new shooters.
Its working a bit but I have to allow those ppc sakos and sako 222 to shoot.
The rule was a simple one to start with any factory rifle must be a repeater glass bedding and trigger work allowed.
We shoot the 200 yd hunter target at 100 yds. Still even those sakos have ahard time .
5 shots at each bull 10 minutes for the frst target 15 minutes after a break to shoot 2 targets then another break and 2 more targets in 15 minutes, The new people are learning quickly about wind drift handloading and shooting off the bags , Related equipent and its problems. bench technique atc.
Any way it's something to attract shooters to our games.
What is a factory rifle? The new TC with the shillen barrel? a custom from remington 40 x repeater or fine custon one from any other rifle maker. We have been trying a summer league at 100 yd to attract new shooters.
Its working a bit but I have to allow those ppc sakos and sako 222 to shoot.
The rule was a simple one to start with any factory rifle must be a repeater glass bedding and trigger work allowed.
We shoot the 200 yd hunter target at 100 yds. Still even those sakos have ahard time .
5 shots at each bull 10 minutes for the frst target 15 minutes after a break to shoot 2 targets then another break and 2 more targets in 15 minutes, The new people are learning quickly about wind drift handloading and shooting off the bags , Related equipent and its problems. bench technique atc.
Any way it's something to attract shooters to our games.
Centerfire
Member
Opps
Sorry Charles. Did not mean to offend. You must have missed my post #293 of this thread.
I think that when 80 % of the group is creating the pot for the 20% of the winners without any chance of ever achieving wood, well as you posted in #301 all you get is about 5 years of contributions.
Since you seem to have some data as to membership, might you quickly check how many guys have left our ranks yearly? Say for the last 5 years, and are you sure you really want to loose these competitors/contributors?
Centerfire
Sorry Charles. Did not mean to offend. You must have missed my post #293 of this thread.
I think that when 80 % of the group is creating the pot for the 20% of the winners without any chance of ever achieving wood, well as you posted in #301 all you get is about 5 years of contributions.
Since you seem to have some data as to membership, might you quickly check how many guys have left our ranks yearly? Say for the last 5 years, and are you sure you really want to loose these competitors/contributors?
Centerfire
