Growing the IBS

There are far too many shooters who do nothing to help run matches. Either they think they are celebrities or are just obvlious. I am loath to say which I feel is closer to the truth. From what I know, Match Directors do not get one penny for all the work they do and I am sure, they pay handily to bring the oportunity to those who attend. I think most Match Directors care more to make sure there is the oportunity for others to be part of a National Orginization and part of a bigger process than themselves, than what it cost them, personally, to be the responsible party. I fear that in many cases the particapants feel they are bigger than the process of creating the oportunity. I see it every time I attend a match.

I have also heard enough chilling stories from folks who were shunned and cheated at matches they attended. From those stories one can make the inference that they presented themselves into a Catch 22. ( You can't be one uness you are one) I would say that if WE wish to grow our sport the Body Politic needs to experience a reality check. There are no celebrities. There are only Brothers in Arms. Big Hats get in the way of shoting.
 
Last edited:
al....
none of my BENCHREST ar's fit in thier class....
and
AS I HAVE POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES THE CLASS WAS DESIGNED TO FAIL

NO bolt action br shooter is REQUIRED to keep his brass on his bench, but semi auto, case ejecting ar's were REQUIRED to keep all thier brass on thier bench.
i was asked for my input for the class, i gave it, and it was ignored..
mike in co
Al Nyhus said:
Lets fast rewind a couple of years for a bit of perspective:

-There's interest by the IBS in attracting new shooters.

-The AR-type guns are promoted by many, including one very vocal supporter on BRC.

-The IBS forms a class for AR-type rifle.

-The AR shooters stay away in droves, including the one that championed for their acceptance. And he runs matches at his local range. :eek:

You can't say the IBS ain't tryin'......

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan (1934-1996)
Click to expand...
 
mike in co said:
al....
none of my BENCHREST ar's fit in thier class....
and
AS I HAVE POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES THE CLASS WAS DESIGNED TO FAIL

NO bolt action br shooter is REQUIRED to keep his brass on his bench, but semi auto, case ejecting ar's were REQUIRED to keep all thier brass on thier bench.
i was asked for my input for the class, i gave it, and it was ignored..
mike in co
Click to expand...

Mike I've never seen a bolt action BR shooter eject cases further than the top of the bench. I shoot rimfire BR and a few years ago used a BSA Martini MkII, these rifles eject cases quite well and boy did I get a few comments when I let my cases get away from the top of the bench.

I learnt that I wan't the only person shooting, do you not have any courtesy toward your fellow competitors........I certainly wouldn't like hot cases landing on my bench from a AR shooter it would be (to say the least) distracting.

This is only my thought but I think for any organisation to gain you as a shooter/competitor they would need to pay you to attend and shoot and host all the shoots at your local range and enable you to make all the decisions regarding rules etc.......this is the impression you give me.............I think you need to wake up and realise that not all the shooting world is in your position, all of your posts in this thread are negative.........how about making some positive contribution??.......Ian.
 
Last edited:
Mike in co.,I see you nit pick every little to pat yourself and your little club on the back for having everything right. It is very easy to keep everybody happy that live close but at the national level it is a little harder. Do you want hot brass down your neck from an AR? or putting a mark on somebody's gun with your brass. Think before you write. I guess paying 20.00 to shoot at your club is a better deal than the IBS.? I think you are getting ripped, at Harry Jones it's 15 for a 1K match. I see the big frog in the small pond, best you play local.....jim
 
All,
If and when we have ARs on a BR match line we put then on the right end of the firing line.
john
Mims, Fl.
 
Every sport usually turns to a competitive level. Look at the costs of the folowing; ATV's, snowmobiles, bass boats,golf and even bycycling. They all get real expensive when you want to compete. Benchrest is an investment in equipment it is the only sport that I can think of you can get 60 to 75% of your money back if you do not like the game. Benchrest matches are like the family picnic for shooters. We can grow the sport but it will only grow if positive people promote it. We need schools and mentors and volunteers with knowledge of the sport. The schools can be regional making it easy to get to one. There are over 100 million gun owners in the USA 1/2 of a percent is a lot of accuracy buffs.
Negitivety will not promote anything. so let's talk positive and try to get the new shooter to the bench. Remember 18 or 80 you can shoot Benchrest.
My 2 cents
Mike Mastrogiovanni
 
gentlemen,
this is old news...
ar's can be tuned to reduce the distance they throw brass..so no you on your bench will not get pelted with brass,.but not to the point of guaranteeing they will stay on the bench top.. again there is no requirement for a bolt gun to keep thier brass on the bench top so why for an ar...dumb rule....

most of our matches run 5 to 8 dollars....only rarely do we have a sitiuation where fees go over $10....the 20 figure was a top .

they may still have br at ault co, but the only reason i have not gone with the ar's is the lack of ability ,so far, to shoot in the 7 min window. again old news. when i have time and money i will work on the rifles to try and reduce operating time.


mike in co



"Mike I've never seen a bolt action BR shooter eject cases further than the top of the bench. I shoot rimfire BR and a few years ago used a BSA Martini MkII, these rifles eject cases quite well and boy did I get a few comments when I let my cases get away from the top of the bench.

I learnt that I wan't the only person shooting, do you not have any courtesy toward your fellow competitors........I certainly wouldn't like hot cases landing on my bench from a AR shooter it would be (to say the least) distracting.

This is only my thought but I think for any organisation to gain you as a shooter/competitor they would need to pay you to attend and shoot and host all the shoots at your local range and enable you to make all the decisions regarding rules etc.......this is the impression you give me.............I think you need to wake up and realise that not all the shooting world is in your position, all of your posts in this thread are negative.........how about making some positive contribution??.......Ian.

jim1K said:
Mike in co.,I see you nit pick every little to pat yourself and your little club on the back for having everything right. It is very easy to keep everybody happy that live close but at the national level it is a little harder. Do you want hot brass down your neck from an AR? or putting a mark on somebody's gun with your brass. Think before you write. I guess paying 20.00 to shoot at your club is a better deal than the IBS.? I think you are getting ripped, at Harry Jones it's 15 for a 1K match. I see the big frog in the small pond, best you play local.....jim
Click to expand...
 
to Mike Co.
the reason the bench top rule was made was to keep from pelting other shooters. The bench top rule ment that your expelled case land on the bench top if it rolled off no problem. pick up after clear the benches command. If the AR platform is so popular in your area for benchrest than promote it. i have said before you have an axe to grind grind it in another thread, this thread is intended to further group shooting not bashing it.
Mike M
 
I joined the sport because of a love of accuracy. Any watered down version of Benchrest shooting is not going to improve its appeal to the general public, it will chase away the true Benchrest lovers. A factory rifle will never Consistantly shoot like a true Benchrest rifle so why fool ourselves.

Let's bring in new shooters by letting them shoot our rifles, if they are truly interested in accuracy, they will get hooked.

Ed
 
Last edited:
I sat on the NBRSA board of directors for 10 years and can't remember an instance where anybody even mentioned the IBS in a negative manner. The IBS and NBRSA are the same people to an extent - an overlap if you will. The "politics" or whatever is believed to be, only exist in the minds of those that speak of such. Can anyone offer an actual occurrence that indicates otherwise?
 
it does not say that.
rules are written in black and white.
if that was true then the rule should have read.."your brass may not land on another shooter in your relay nor his bench"...
i pointed out the difference when the rules were made(before published) and was ignored..
like i said the rules designed the class to fail..and it worked.
honestly, another case of management not listening to the users.....
mike in co

windflag said:
to Mike Co.
the reason the bench top rule was made was to keep from pelting other shooters. The bench top rule ment that your expelled case land on the bench top if it rolled off no problem. pick up after clear the benches command. If the AR platform is so popular in your area for benchrest than promote it. i have said before you have an axe to grind grind it in another thread, this thread is intended to further group shooting not bashing it.
Mike M
Click to expand...
 
Markhor said:
I joined the sport because of a love of accuracy. Any watered down version of Benchrest shooting is not going to improve its appeal to the general public, it will chase away the true Benchrest lovers. A factory rifle will never Consistantly shoot like a true Benchrest rifle so why fool ourselves.

Let's bring in new shooters by letting them shoot our rifles, if they are truly interested in accuracy, they will get hooked.

Ed
Click to expand...

Ed,
As I did with Wilbur, I will respectfully disagree. If you choose, you might go to the UBR website and look at the rules, classes and particpants. Also, should you choose to communicate with those of us who regularly shoot in UBR matches we will share our experiences. Granted, we are shooting score, but if one chose to do so, I think the same approach could be used with group matches. It's all well and good to say this won't work or it will water things down. But, I run two matches per month and you will see on the website that many more are being shot. It's a mistake to say it won't work, when it clearly is working quite well.

Rick
 
My perspective on "factory class": of the ranges I have been to that had a factory class, I did not see them as growth.
They did not bring in shooters, the existing shooters just bring factory guns as well.

If the IBS was to sanction a factory class, this is how I would set one up:
1st - I would go to Fargo's huge "Scheels" sporting goods store (biggest store they have in the US) with my bore-scope and look down every barrel of the caliber/model that they have on hand, and pick what I feel would be the best one.
2nd - Would take the barrel off, true the receiver face, lugs and bolt face. Re-time the bolt for primary extraction and sear-engagement. Then advance the barrel/chamber to my own reamer design, to have a optimal throat for the intended bullets that I would plan on using. <> To those who say it would be illegal, you would never know that I had did this things.
3rd - I would send the barrel to an affiliate to have it lapped and stress relieved (cryo). And wouldn't rule out an aftermarket clowned barrel.
4th - I would take full advantage of every aspect of what ever the rules may be, as to bedding, trigger, crown, etc. that I feel would give advantages. And would dabble the heck out of the "gray areas".
5th - Would reload the ammo with custom dies, segregated comments, and all the anal-steps I already do.

Wait .... I know what someone is going to say here: "Why would you do that?" and "Why would you cheat the rules?"
My answer is quite simple: Because that is what others will do, and some are already doing in factory class'.

If the clubs want to have factory class like some already do, that's cool and am all for it!!!
But a sanctioned "factory" class I do not ever see working for the above reasons.
And feel it would cost more to setup a capable factory rifle, then it would many existing comp rigs.

No poon intended... just my own perspective to what would happen, and knowledge of what is happening.
Donovan Moran
 
Banning, black balling, and legal recourse for cloning a mfg. logo is probably enough deterrent for most that would play that way. Oh, and wouldn't you feel bad when you got beat by a legal factory rifle.:eek: Not to mention the money you'd have in could buy a nice custom, so what would be motive enough for all of that...simply winning a few matches against, primarily new shooters that were playing by the rules? Those types would stand out in a crowd of Afghans...JMO.
 
Last edited:
Donovan, you're dead on.

A good pal of mine has built rifles for 'factory' class competition. By the time they were finished they were more $ than a good used BR rig...by a long ways.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
dmoran65 said:
My perspective on "factory class": of the ranges I have been to that had a factory class, I did not see them as growth.
They did not bring in shooters, the existing shooters just bring factory guns as well.

If the IBS was to sanction a factory class, this is how I would set one up:
1st - I would go to Fargo's huge "Scheels" sporting goods store (biggest store they have in the US) with my bore-scope and look down every barrel of the caliber/model that they have on hand, and pick what I feel would be the best one.
2nd - Would take the barrel off, true the receiver face, lugs and bolt face. Re-time the bolt for primary extraction and sear-engagement. Then advance the barrel/chamber to my own reamer design, to have a optimal throat for the intended bullets that I would plan on using. <> To those who say it would be illegal, you would never know that I had did this things.
3rd - I would send the barrel to an affiliate to have it lapped and stress relieved (cryo). And wouldn't rule out an aftermarket clowned barrel.
4th - I would take full advantage of every aspect of what ever the rules may be, as to bedding, trigger, crown, etc. that I feel would give advantages. And would dabble the heck out of the "gray areas".
5th - Would reload the ammo with custom dies, segregated comments, and all the anal-steps I already do.

Wait .... I know what someone is going to say here: "Why would you do that?" and "Why would you cheat the rules?"
My answer is quite simple: Because that is what others will do, and some are already doing in factory class'.

If the clubs want to have factory class like some already do, that's cool and am all for it!!!
But a sanctioned "factory" class I do not ever see working for the above reasons.
And feel it would cost more to setup a capable factory rifle, then it would many existing comp rigs.

No poon intended... just my own perspective to what would happen, and knowledge of what is happening.
Donovan Moran
Click to expand...

So, if understand what you are saying, you would both cheat & lie to everyone else that shoots with you for the sole purpose of winning some fake wood? And your justification is "everybody else would do it".
Interesting. I'll be sure to remember that should I ever compete with you.

BTW- what is a "poon"?

Rick
 
mezell: Remember the IROC race series? Identically prepared cars that drivers drew for before each race.

Now here's an idea: Have a rack full of identical Savage rifles that shooters would draw for before competing. And use 'approved' factory ammo that the shooters would purchase from the host club for the event.

Hmmmm.....????? -Al
 
Al Nyhus said:
mezell: Remember the IROC race series? Identically prepared cars that drivers drew for before each race.

Now here's an idea: Have a rack full of identical Savage rifles that shooters would draw for before competing. And use 'approved' factory ammo that the shooters would purchase from the host club for the event.

Hmmmm.....????? -Al
Click to expand...

Well, you know one of them would shoot best.....so how would you keep Donovan from puttin' a fix in on the draw - or boxing up some "deadly accurate" reloads for a quick switch (quoting my old friend Henry).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top