Growing the IBS
- Thread starter R. Rains
- Start date
Greyfox -
Seriously, I would more then likely never build one for myself, or participate in a sanctioned factory class scenario.
But am positive, I would have paying customers who would want me to set them up with such.
And if would not take it on for them, they would just go down the road to the next guy that would.
* I put it on hear as a hypothetical to what I foresee would happen....
Again no poon intended !!!! -- (poon means poon, much like vb means vb)
Donovan Moran
Seriously, I would more then likely never build one for myself, or participate in a sanctioned factory class scenario.
But am positive, I would have paying customers who would want me to set them up with such.
And if would not take it on for them, they would just go down the road to the next guy that would.
* I put it on hear as a hypothetical to what I foresee would happen....
Again no poon intended !!!! -- (poon means poon, much like vb means vb)
Donovan Moran
mwezell
Mike Ezell
There is "something" that keeps good people from intentionally cross firing on someone else's target too, landing a big nine on them on the last target.... and it ain't backers...especially where they aren't required by the rule book.
Last edited:
Donovan your right there would be someone out the that did all there own work, that would try and pull something like that off without getting fond out. I asked the question once when all we could have was a brake that was .950 at the muzzle. And we couldn't use tunners, How long can a brake be. Didn't matter if it made weight. So the guys that could do it, keep cutting them down till they found the sweet spot! So was that cheating HELL NO. So if you just happen to be able to make your factory rifle shoot a little better, great that what benchrest shooting is all about, finding how to put five or ten shots into the same hole weather its at 100 yards or 1000 yards. No one has done it consistently that I know of.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Al, I think that's a solution looking for a problem.
UBR is admittedly very young and new, but it hasn't been an issue as yet. When or if it does, we'll deal wif' em'. It's a small circle, us BR shooters. Many of us are close friends, and most of the rest of us know each other through others, indirectly, whether we've met or not. That doesn't bode well for anyone who wants to cheat and stay in this game.
You fellers that know of these cheats...yous keeps em' aways from these parts, and we's won't cut they tars.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Not intentionally, Donovan.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
The growth I have seen in the IBS and an unmentionable disciplin is Retirees. It has been my observation that the Retirees have the ability to buy those things necessary with which to compete. There is no point in trying to maket to a group who will not be able to afford to particiate so the thinking needs to change.
Along with that I think most retirees will want a more relaxed atmosphere, i.e. one day matches and more of them. We may be at a point where regionialization will be needed to accomodate more matches. Along with that a system based on numbers of contestants will need to be re-considered. Excelence doesn't come from the numbers of folks present but instead the end results of shooting.
If one looks at the IR 50/50's system, they have things pretty well figured out for more matches at more venues more often. Their Hall Of Fame system is also a very fair and workable situation.
The Precision Shooter system will also need to be re-thought. With smaller numbers, there just won't ever be enough shooters to make the minimum numbers. A system based on excelence in terms of Scores or Group Size is a more relistic system with smaller numbers participating.
Ya wants growth, ya gotts to change it all to get it.
The other situation is Venues and Match Directors. If one looks out their window and folks are running down the street in the same direction, it probably isn't a coincidence. Good venues and good Match Directors are not easy to come by. Perhaps the org should consider a stiped for Match Directors.
In my case, I live 108 miles from the range I have been running for the past three years. This is my last year and this weekend will be my last match as Match Director. I just can not afford to do what is necessary to run matches there. Motels are over the moon, Food is over the Moon, Fuel is over the Moon and the satisfaction derived for the process isn't enough for me to committ a couple thousand dollars each year to do it. I have given to Club, the Shooters and IBS more than I can afford to give.
It will mean shooters paying more for the privilidge of competing but if something isn't done, there will, eventually, be an end to it all. Just my humble opinion you understand. How may venues have collaped over the past decade or two and not all of them from being closed down?
Things have to change. I realize most of us do not take well to change but the world around us has changed so much most of us can not comprehend it. We don't like it but we cope with it, we have no other choice. Even the Augusta National changed just the other day and inducetd two women as members, one of then Black. If they can do it, we can change too.
Along with that I think most retirees will want a more relaxed atmosphere, i.e. one day matches and more of them. We may be at a point where regionialization will be needed to accomodate more matches. Along with that a system based on numbers of contestants will need to be re-considered. Excelence doesn't come from the numbers of folks present but instead the end results of shooting.
If one looks at the IR 50/50's system, they have things pretty well figured out for more matches at more venues more often. Their Hall Of Fame system is also a very fair and workable situation.
The Precision Shooter system will also need to be re-thought. With smaller numbers, there just won't ever be enough shooters to make the minimum numbers. A system based on excelence in terms of Scores or Group Size is a more relistic system with smaller numbers participating.
Ya wants growth, ya gotts to change it all to get it.
The other situation is Venues and Match Directors. If one looks out their window and folks are running down the street in the same direction, it probably isn't a coincidence. Good venues and good Match Directors are not easy to come by. Perhaps the org should consider a stiped for Match Directors.
In my case, I live 108 miles from the range I have been running for the past three years. This is my last year and this weekend will be my last match as Match Director. I just can not afford to do what is necessary to run matches there. Motels are over the moon, Food is over the Moon, Fuel is over the Moon and the satisfaction derived for the process isn't enough for me to committ a couple thousand dollars each year to do it. I have given to Club, the Shooters and IBS more than I can afford to give.
It will mean shooters paying more for the privilidge of competing but if something isn't done, there will, eventually, be an end to it all. Just my humble opinion you understand. How may venues have collaped over the past decade or two and not all of them from being closed down?
Things have to change. I realize most of us do not take well to change but the world around us has changed so much most of us can not comprehend it. We don't like it but we cope with it, we have no other choice. Even the Augusta National changed just the other day and inducetd two women as members, one of then Black. If they can do it, we can change too.
Last edited:
You know Gerry, some of us down here in the south have found something that works. A few of us have cared enough to share it with you because you asked. We told you about some procedures that needed changing and we told you what we are doing and gave you the opportunity to check and see if we were telling the truth.
For the most part all you guys have done is tell us what won't work.
A fellow once told me that sometimes you just have to say "this is the way we are going. You are welcome to come along. You can sit down by the side of the road, you can turn back or you can even catch up later. But we are going this way". It seems that this applies in this situation. It doesn't make a lot of difference one way or the other to Mike Ezell and me. We are part of something that's growing and we're having a good time with it. When you guys get tired of telling us that what we are doing won't work and you find something that will, please return the favor and share it with us. I might change my mind, but I think I'm done with this subject.
Rick
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Wilbur, I was hopin' someone would logically extend that.....
Al, logical or illogical, until you try what is working for us, you really don't know how it will work for your area and, your suggestion is still a solution looking for a problem. Of course it could be like some other things...some might decide that they might as well cheat if they're going to be accused of it anyway. I'm more secure in my faith in the people that I shoot with at four different ranges, regularly, and call my friends, being a bit more mature and trustworthy than what you imply. But more importantly...it is working, whether you like that or believe that, or not. Logic, it seems to me, is not to tell me it won't work when we are doing it and your typing.
W
windflag
Guest
Only in your eyes continue to tilt at wind mills. You don't want to promote or help expand IBS you want to destroy. It is a waste of time and energy dealing with you. Continue in your own world with your self righteous opinions and enjoy the shooting sports.
Mike M
Mike M
I have been really thinking about this topic since it started. I have been involved in several different sports in my life and have been trying to relate them to benchrest, I was involved for the longest time in motocross because both me and my son raced for many years. it is a niche sport like benchrest with the biggest difference being at least family likes to watch you crash on a motorcycle, nobody!!!!!!!!!!!! in your family wants to watch you shoot an agg. they would rather go shopping at the mall or stare blindly into an I-Phone.....NOT a spectator sport.
Did I mention NOT A SPECTATOR sport !!!!!!!!!! NO TV revenue, NO revenue of anykind from outside the industry.
Closest thing I have done to this is Desert racing on a motorcycle for a couple years. The only thing that saved it from extinction was that all parties got together under one banner .........the "A.M.A." . For Motocross, Supercross and Desert Nationals.
Benchrest is in worse shape headed for oblivion unless they change a few things.
IBS, NBRSA and the Superbowl of benchrest the Supershoot all acting independantly........it wont work, it is not working!!!!!! unless you are not paying attention.
With number's as low as they are ONE sanctioning body is THE only answer to growth and survival.
Also 1 premier class is not enough be it HV,LV,Sporter,Unlimited,group,score...whatever, there needs to be a learning class where people can grow, even Neckcar got this right by having a truck series, the Nationwide series and leaving the most experienced for the Sprint Cup (so they dont have to have Tony Stewart throwing helmet's at you if you make a mistake.)
The lower classes would not even have to be at the same place or same weekend ,also as per Neckcar.
They have a few good idea's for an unwatchable sport.
UB
Did I mention NOT A SPECTATOR sport !!!!!!!!!! NO TV revenue, NO revenue of anykind from outside the industry.
Closest thing I have done to this is Desert racing on a motorcycle for a couple years. The only thing that saved it from extinction was that all parties got together under one banner .........the "A.M.A." . For Motocross, Supercross and Desert Nationals.
Benchrest is in worse shape headed for oblivion unless they change a few things.
IBS, NBRSA and the Superbowl of benchrest the Supershoot all acting independantly........it wont work, it is not working!!!!!! unless you are not paying attention.
With number's as low as they are ONE sanctioning body is THE only answer to growth and survival.
Also 1 premier class is not enough be it HV,LV,Sporter,Unlimited,group,score...whatever, there needs to be a learning class where people can grow, even Neckcar got this right by having a truck series, the Nationwide series and leaving the most experienced for the Sprint Cup (so they dont have to have Tony Stewart throwing helmet's at you if you make a mistake.)
The lower classes would not even have to be at the same place or same weekend ,also as per Neckcar.
They have a few good idea's for an unwatchable sport.
UB
82boy
Patrick Kennedy
I disagree, check ou the VHA matchs in Indy, (Lumping in the Toad walker, Canaball, ETC into this as well) Jerry Klopel puts on one of the BEST IBS 600 yard matchs in the country, and he has a factory class, that draws a good croud from several states. I know a few shooters that will travel to shoot a competitive factory match. If it was offered, I am sure the regualre IBS macth attendies, would get a factory gun and compete.
Last edited:
OK, convinced me. Make it happen!
M
mike in co
Guest
ok so a rule is written in black and white, and yet you claim "only in your eyes"....you can't read simple english ?
go look at what i have said...all designed to fix the existing problems....
of course you sit so close to the problems you cannot see them.
you on the other hand have put up nothing...not a thing...
go away or grow up
mike in co
go look at what i have said...all designed to fix the existing problems....
of course you sit so close to the problems you cannot see them.
you on the other hand have put up nothing...not a thing...
go away or grow up
mike in co
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It makes a big difference what size targets folks expect to hit. With 1-2-300 yd Benchrest, getting a good result is expected. At 600, I think participants, in general, all feel good just to just hit the target
. Just Kidding. I realize the dificulty factor is increased but I think the expectation in the Short Range Benchrest is a different mindset completely. I think one can see it with the Groundhog Shoots and the numbers they generate. Different set of circumstances. I have heard some folks say they like the GH better because there are no rules but that is a mis-nomer. The Groundhog Shoots have their own rules.Most of the people I see at ranges aren't there to find real accuracy, they are there to shoot and if they get a 2" group with whatever they brung, they are satisfied. Different storkes. I have never been interested in shooting beyond 300 and don't expect to ever be interested in it. I have competed in over 30 Sanctioned Matches since Jan 1 so far and will do another 10 or so before 12-31-12. I will probably cut that back by 10 or so next year so that I can become re-acquainted wih Family and Friends after a dozen or more years living in my Mini Van.
AND, most of the Factory Guns I see at matches cost as much as a good used Benchrifle so I don't see where there is any advantage to Factory Guns and beginners. I've been that route and spent the money on the stuff to make em shoot, only to realize they ain't ever gonna be a real bench gun. Perhaps a better alternative is some Rental Rifles. Folks should expect to pay for the costs involved.
Last edited:
M
mks
Guest
The advantage is that most shooters already have a factory gun. So the part of the startup cost associated with the gun is zero. Remember it is first time shooters we are talking about. Would they be more likely to try a new shooting sport if it cost A) zero, because they already have a gun, or B) thousands for a special purpose gun they may never use again if they don't like the game? It is a really simple question with an easy answer.
Cheers,
Keith