What Happened to RBA? what will happen?

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Rod Collins said:
I think the changes were made to try to increase shooter participation. If you have any other ideas on how to get more shooters, your thoughts would be welcome.
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Rod some of the changes is what made two clubs in Ohio decide to shoot RBA unl.in 2008 as for the sporter rules it dont mean anything to me you all can have them little 6x scopes and the cost of ammo is going sky high I couldnt afford to feed another gun anyways.But I do see the rule change saving new shooters hundreds of dollars over a clip feed gun.The way I see it is a suhl action is a hell of a lot cheaper than a Hall nothing against halls actions they are nice but a 52d cmp or one of the new suhls are cheaper???? We will try Rba for a year and see how all the shooters like it and then in 2009 we will only be shooting 1 org. and thats it.For the shooters by the shooters dont get any better than that. Jerry
 
Bill Myers-as to new records with new equip--look at poor baseball. Ty Cobb and the Babe made their records in 120 or so games. Now the steroid users get 164 or so??? AND in between there were (are) records from 140 games.
 
My Two Cents!
The Last thing I would expect would be Anyone in an Official Capacity with RBA to venture into THIS thread. Threads like this do not belong on a public forum that is meant to support Rimfire Benchrest. They do a lot more harm & very little good. :(
 
I can speak from some experience from many years ago shooting a sport,IHMSA, that was run by a dictatorship with member input and ideas. This dictator was very well off financially and put a Lot of money into a sport he enjoyed he could have spent the money shooting some more elephants,lions,record sheep or whatever.
He made up the rules and ENFORCED them rigidly, with RARE changes. It worked but the shooters griped and complained about the lack of input on equipment etc.
Wilbur is not a dictator. He is a manager.He lets people bounce ideas around and then mentors a concensus plan. open to change. I only find fault with the format.
If the sporter discussion had taken place in the Southern part of the country it would have probably ended much the same as the present RBA rule seems to have done. But there were some vocal and insistent shooters such as Dave who did not want the rule changed because of some idea of tradition and Milt and records etc. The sure way to hinder progress in a sport is to bury your head in sand and talk about the tradition as the most important factor in making changes happen. If the subject is brought up again at next Nationals it may be changed.
But at the least enforce the rules as they are now.Check the sporters for function,safety and stock rules and enforce them or forget them.
As far as RBA, I do not know Bob and do not know about the money end or the other areas of dissention but the changes do not seem to be contrary the good of the sport idea. Bob seems to be the lightning rod and is taking a lot of hits justly or not.
But a idea as to another reason of decline of RBA matches at least in our area is that a MD has to run 2 matches IR and RBA, too much for a single person to take on. A Sat. of 7am till 4-5 pm is a long day of being a MD and handling all the problems and duties.
Wilbur, since this seems to be a chance to address some ideas, IR that is, how about up to 2 matches per month at a range?
each range getting a double point match once a year, a challenge match ?? and an agg. list of say 15 matches as well as the regulat List champ???????????
Keep on managing Wilbur, I think you are doing a for the best of the sport good job.
 
Region Specific Sporter Rules

billyg -- It wouldn't have mattered where the IR 5050 Nationals were held last year, the sporter rules would not have changed. A suggestion was made the year before last at Kettlefoot to change the sporter rules (Dave Shattuck was nowhere in sight) and they didn't pass. Suggestions were made at two consecutive Nationals at Leetown several years ago and they didn't pass. Some variation on a sporter rule change has been put forth at just about every Nationals I can remember, going back to 1995 and there's been little movement since the first couple of years when custom sporters were allowed. Just about the same people attend the Nationals every year, no matter where they live -- and a majority of them have a similar mindset about not wanting changes and that is what the vote at the end of this years' discussion demonstrated. For those who don't want to consider tradition or the history supporting a particular class, then go with the RBA sporter and enjoy, but please leave the IR 5050 sporter rules alone.

Inez
 
Doug,
Are you saying that RBA members should keep quite, be kept in the dark, and not have any input as to what the rules of there RBA association should be.

I agree that it may have been a bit premature of cadillacjack to bring this problem in front of the members before he got an answer from Bob C., but it's way to late to cover this up now.

There is a chance to make it right, in fact there's a chance to make it even better, and that would be a good thing for the shooters, but not if the officials hide from the members, all that will do is make the members run away from RBA.
S/S
 
RBA situation

There is an old saying: "that we are too soon old and too slow smart".

With that as a preface, I would like to comment on the RBA situation. I believe that the main problem with RBA is the lack of communications between the Board and the rank and file members. Whether or not this problem is agenda driven political games by a few players or simply incompetency remains to be seen.

This will be my fourth year of shooting in RBA matches. It is also my first, and probably last, as an RBA Match Director. At the conclusion of this season's matches, I will be recommending to our club members that we switch either to IR 50 or ARA sanctioned matches. At least with those organizations, shooters will know up front where they stand as individual members.

I am simply too old and and not smart enough to figure out how to fix RBA's problem(s).

Very wet in the Northwest, ( Yes, I know that some Alpha-Hotel will say I am all wet!)
Paul Steinman
 
I spoke with Bob Collins today

I had the opportunity to speak with Bob Collins today and was informed the problem was not with him but rather the match directors. He explained that he sent a letter to each and every match director last October. He advised that the letter explained the issues to be voted upon were contained in this letter and it was the responsibility of the match directors to seek input from each of their members an then vote accordingly. I have personally heard from some directors and read the posts of some others and apparently they have ALL forgotten about this letter sent by Bob Collins in his capacity as President of RBA.

Further, I asked if I could see a copy of the finiancial records of the RBA and was informed I had No right to them as a shooter, but they WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO MATCH DIRECTORS. The reason for the WOULD BE is that they won't be available until at Least April 15th due to personel time constraints.

Next I asked if I could have a copy of the minutes of the past meeting when the vote was taken. Bob advised they were not as yet prepared and was not sure when they would be available.

We lastly discussed this thread. I told him the issues raised have at the very least generated a great interest in the opperation of RBA. He advised; many of the people who have posted are not even members and as such they have no say in the matter. I suggested we (RBA members) reopen the issues passed for reconsideration. He didn't think that was a good idea. As for the a solid action vs,one with a clipslot he said it would have no effect on accuracy.

In closing, Bob advised that he HAD NOT READ THIS THREAD and he had no interest in reading it. "THE VOTE HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN'
 
Rod,
An apology to the members from the officials who caused the problems would not hurt, and putting things back the way they were till the association members and MD's have more time to work things out, that may go a long way to making things even better as it could restore members faith in the officials. The next thing that has to be done is listen to your MD's such as Paul Steinman and a bunch of others that have expressed there dissatisfaction with the way things are going. So far it seems that no officials are paying attention to the members or the MD's.

Like Paul has said, communications with ALL the members would go a long way.

Looks like the RBA just lost another MD and a club out in Olympia,Wa. how many more will it take before the powers that be take some action to make things right.
S/S
 
The shooters own RBA and everyone that is a members has a right to the financial report PEROID. The set-up with RBA is that the orginization will start the year with $2000 in the bank and will end the year with $2000 in the bank. All money above the $2000 that is to be left in the bank at the end of the year is used toward standing prizes. All of the finances should have been calculated to see how much to use for the standing prizes that were given away at the Jan. match. The financials of RBA are OPEN to ALL MEMBERS to keep everything out in front and honest.

Thanks,

Scott
 
cadillacjack,
It's very hard to believe that ALL of the MD's forgot about the "letter", maybe all the letters got "lost" in the mail.

It's been said that RBA is a North Carolina Not-for-Profit Corporation, owned by the membership, but you are saying that a dues paying member has no right to see a copy of the financial records and they may not even exist at this time, and a copy of the minutes of the past meeting are not available and did not know when they would be available ?.

Your saying that he has not read this thread and has no interest in reading it, and that many of the guys that posted are not RBA members, now if he hasn't read any of the post how does he know who are members and who are not members, even if that's so it should not matter because many, many, of the guys that posted ARE members and are MD's, it's unbelievable, the President of any association should be paying attention to what guys are saying about their association, even if there not members, otherwise the RBA may not be getting any new members because of the way officials treat their members that ask questions.

Does anyone know if any money has been donated to this "Not-for-Profit Corporation"
This does not sound good for a Not-for-Profit Corporation.
S/S
 
That's all she wrote!

I just finished reading Fred's message about his response from Bob Collins concerning RBA's recent actions. My blood pressure is still boiling! God must not have liked my first attempt to respond to Collin's answers to Fred as we experienced a 30 second power outage that killed my message. I guess it was better for my message to get killed rather than to threaten bodily harm. I really thought the idea of a duel sounded great since Bob Collins is the one who slapped me in the face, giving me the choice of weapons. Well, the good Lord and my wife have prevailed.

To set the record straight, THIS Match Director did not receive any correspondence from RBA until January 2nd or 3rd. At that time I received a letter dated December 27, 2007 enclosing a copy of the October 20, 2007 minutes and a copy of the proposed agenda items for the January 5th board meeting.

There are at least two things I cannot tolerate: 1) Knowingly shaking hands with a socialist Democrat and 2) Taking the blame for someone else's incompetency.

Obviously, we are not getting the whole truth folks!!! Too much game playing for this old guy!

Effectively IMMEDIATELY, Capitol City Rifle and Pistol Club severs ALL CONNECTIONS with RBA. Please disregard any 2008 RBA Match Schedule shown on the web site.

What a way to begin the New Year!
Paul Steinman
 
PThree said:
...Capitol City Rifle and Pistol Club severs ALL CONNECTIONS with RBA...
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Paul, I hope you'll reconsider. If I don't get another of my twice annual chances to shoot over "The Pit" this season, I'll likely give up the ghost.
:)
 
"Don't you think that questions about the business of RBA should be address to the Business Manager of RBA ?"

Well,
OK lets hear from the Business Manager. Being that Scott H. ( Fudd ) said that,

"The financials of RBA are OPEN to ALL MEMBERS to keep everything out in front and honest",

now that's a good thing, but cadillacjack was told no way would he see the financial records of the RBA, and even the MD's would have to wait about 90 days before they would be available, what could be so complicated about a report telling where the money came from and where it went ?. Again, something is not right here.

But I do believe that the President is the one that is the top person in the RBA Not-for-Profit Corporation, and that the Business Manager only does what the President says. Or do they do things different in RBA, bottom line, with the don't tell the members anything attitude that the officials have had so far, things don't look good for the Not-for-Profit Corporation of RBA.

Come on officials, get with it, the members are asking some very important questions about the financial statues of the RBA Corporation and the minutes of the past meeting. This is getting really discouraging, thinking that we have officials that will not answer or don't want to deal with the members questions.

Well it's bedtime for me, hopefully when I get up in the morning and I turn the computer all this will be gone away and I'll think it must have been a bad dream.
S/S
 
Paul
Don't rush to change your status. Remember water seeks it level. All of this will soon pass away. RBA is good, maybe a few operational changes will make it better.
Fred K
 
"when I get up in the morning and turn on the computer all this will be gone away and I'll think it must have been a bad dream"

Well,
Everything is still here, and still no positive responses from the officials.
I guess it wasn't a bad dream, and the shooters will have to live with the way things are.
S/S
 
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