Tuners Suck

Squatty,

I've been watcching this thread waiting for your reply, and it's exactly as expected.

There's a law called the "law of diminishing returns". Generally used in economics but has application here too.

For instance, I need a paperweight. Half pound of lead will do, so there's no further return if I use 40 pounds of lead. I just have to lift more lead.

The affect on vertical seems to maximize at around eight ounces. Calfee set it years ago. Some people use more weight and it might be beneficial in some places, but probably after ten ounces you have virtually no return. Four ounces will help some, but two ounces is going to be barely noticable.

Just try what I said, you'll find it to be true.
 
martin hammond said:
benchrester if you have followed these threads and posts you know how my tuners work. what you don't know is how these other guys tuners work.
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Martin, I didn't know you had your own tuner. But yes I have followed. And you simply say that you have to release the bullet at the top of the curve basically. But you still can't or won't answer how you do that and how you know when you're there other than some targets you photo. And, no disrespect intended, but your targets are unimpressive.
 
Benchrester said:
Some people use more weight and it might be beneficial in some places, but probably after ten ounces you have virtually no return. Four ounces will help some, but two ounces is going to be barely noticable.

Just try what I said, you'll find it to be true.
Click to expand...
You mentioned the accuracy gain using a suppressor.....How much did it weigh?
Less than 8 oz.?
Was it just the extra weight that made the difference?
Take the suppressor off and add a similar solid mass of steel....are the results anywhere near similar?

Just for grins and giggles...was that a Reflex suppressor?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Benchrester said:
Squatty,

I've been watcching this thread waiting for your reply, and it's exactly as expected.

There's a law called the "law of diminishing returns". Generally used in economics but has application here too.

For instance, I need a paperweight. Half pound of lead will do, so there's no further return if I use 40 pounds of lead. I just have to lift more lead.

The affect on vertical seems to maximize at around eight ounces. Calfee set it years ago. Some people use more weight and it might be beneficial in some places, but probably after ten ounces you have virtually no return. Four ounces will help some, but two ounces is going to be barely noticable.

Just try what I said, you'll find it to be true.
Click to expand...

Benchrester:

I have tried it and it does not work. I would bet 99% of all rimfire benchresters have, in their own way, tried it to.

I would venture to say it would be difficult to find one single, serious, big name rimfire benchrester that would agree.

Again this is going to sound like Calfee, but how would he say it; Folks, man, it ain't the weight itself that makes the darn thing work. Folks, man, it's the correct weight for your barrel correctly positioned in front of the muzzle that makes the dang thing work. (Sorry Bill)
 
Kent, it seems to me Gordon Eck whose building these awesome sporters has figured it out. benchrester when you fall off a cliff you get the picture where the edge is.
 
Vibe said:
You mentioned the accuracy gain using a suppressor.....How much did it weigh?
Less than 8 oz.?
Was it just the extra weight that made the difference?
Take the suppressor off and add a similar solid mass of steel....are the results anywhere near similar?

Just for grins and giggles...was that a Reflex suppressor?
Click to expand...


No, just a muzzle-mounted suppressors with a single-point mounting system. Basically crude, just threaded with a small shoulder to align it. I don't know what it weighed, I just noticed that there was an increase in accuracy.

The reflex mounting system with dual point mounting and the expansion chamber back over the barrel would probably be better and emulate a tuner better, but I've never used one.
 
And the sum of the forces are torque. This thread is finally worth sumthing.
 
Benchrester

You said you are shooting Eley. Can you not get Russian Temp? Or do you just perfer Eley?

Any chance of shipping any of that good Chinese ammo over here?
 
well, benchrester is in luck. there appears to be a number of books coming out that should tune this down. Calffe has a book, Bill the piano tuner has one, I think it's sheet music mostly charmin. and then hopefully the sporter guys shooting those 6.5x scopes will tell us all how it's really done.:D
 
a turner is actually lying to the barrel. It is moving the dead spot to the end ,right at the muzzle.
 
martin hammond said:
well, benchrester is in luck. there appears to be a number of books coming out that should tune this down. Calffe has a book, Bill the piano tuner has one, I think it's sheet music mostly charmin. and then hopefully the sporter guys shooting those 6.5x scopes will tell us all how it's really done.:D
Click to expand...

Well, maybe somebody will use one of the books to wipe you up.
 
squatty said:
Benchrester:

I have tried it and it does not work. I would bet 99% of all rimfire benchresters have, in their own way, tried it to.

I would venture to say it would be difficult to find one single, serious, big name rimfire benchrester that would agree.

Again this is going to sound like Calfee, but how would he say it; Folks, man, it ain't the weight itself that makes the darn thing work. Folks, man, it's the correct weight for your barrel correctly positioned in front of the muzzle that makes the dang thing work. (Sorry Bill)
Click to expand...

I doubt if you've tried what I'm saying. I say get you some decent shooters (trust me they're everywhere) that don't have a preconceived idea about a tuner. You do all the adjusting, they shouldn't even know what you think it will do. Without the preconception, the tuner loses a lot of its "effect".
 
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