Tuners Suck

Benchrester said:
I've shot competition but just starte BR so there probably are no meaningful stats. My name is Jury Sukhorukov. I don't shoot in the U.S. but have shot some BR. I've done a little competition shooting. I don't use a tuner. They do nothing for me.
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Benchrester, are you this guy?

Jury Sukhorukov
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Medal record
Competitor for Ukraine
Men's shooting
Olympic Games
Silver 2008 Beijing Men's 50 m rifle 3 pos
Jury Sukhorukov (born March 29, 1968) is an Olympic shooter from Ukraine. He won a silver medal in the Men's 50 metre rifle three positions event at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing.[1][2]

Concho Bill
 
Russia must have the most super consistent ammo factories in the world. Too bad they won't export to the free world where we have to get by with Eley EPS.
 
Benchrester said:
At least you admit you don't know how they work, and I never said they didn't help. But you say "thier rifle tuned right and a great lot of ammo." I say you're half right. Take the great lot of ammo, stick eight ounces of weight up there around the end of the barrel. Flush is okay, but past the end may be a little better, never touch it, don't adjust it, and you're gonna do just as well. Of course, you're never gonna know it because you want to think you've changed something for the good. That's cool. We've got $250 tuners now because we need to look good when all we need is something that weighs about eight ounces and is capable of being clamped to the barrel.

You ought to try shooting a sniper rifle with a silencer after shooting same rifle without. The accuracy increase in amazing. The purpose is not to increase accuracy.

In Soviet Russia rifle tunes you.
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i have shot silenced rifles and pistols before at our range. i noticed a fall off of accuracy on them and a loss of range as well. silencers are only legal here after you jump through flaming hoops and sign away a arm and leg to the government. we could be getting low grade cans here as well. all they do is trap the gas pushing the bullet down the barrel to reduse muzzle report. sub sonic ammo also helps with a can to reduce the muzzle report. i wonder if your silencers are made at the sametime the barrel is. what i'm saying is are they rifled to match the barrel perfectly? if not they are kinda acting like a tuner by holding the muzzle down.
 
crb said:
Russia must have the most super consistent ammo factories in the world. Too bad they won't export to the free world where we have to get by with Eley EPS.
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Russia might, but the Ukraine does not. I shot and shoot Eley Tenex. I think the testing rigors are a little more stringent than what you do. But China uses some great ammunition. White box. There's no rule that says you have to disclose your ammo as long as the judges rule it legal.
 
Benchrester said:
This is where you're wrong. First of all almost every little club has a .22 contingent who happily shoot their 10-22's or Anschutz's without tuners and there are plenty of skilled shooters. All you need to do is pick one. Reading the wind is a non-issue because you need to conduct this experiment with a littl condition as possible. The shooter, unless an idiot, would have to figure out what the tuner is for, but he has no preconceived ideas of whether it should increase or decrease accuracy depending on the way it's turned. Try it. The tuner does help with vertical to an extent 2-5%, which is enough to justify it given the tight scores in today's matches. It does little or nothing past that no matter where it's moved.

If you believe otherwise, you're wrong.
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Really! I would not have guessed there were a lot of 10/22's in the Ukraine. Possibly it's a translation thing that is keeping you from understanding the silliness of the experiment you propose. Or maybe this is just a joke brought to us under an alias. I won't play anymore.
 
Kent Owens said:
Benchrester what's yo real name so we can look up your stats and see what kind of scores you're shooting? Lots' of folks posting on this forum don't have any idea just how good these rimfires really tuned up with top notch ammo will actually group in ideal conditions, Do they Pappas?:) Tuners do work, no doubt.
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Now that, I realise you must good stats to post here I'll be sure to stop. And I'll continue to just shoot for fun on the weekends. And every now and then read the threads on here "why is attendance down" and such and such.:eek:
 
You don't need good stats to post. They help when you're trying to tell everyone else how to do it though.
 
DonMatzeder said:
You don't need good stats to post. They help when you're trying to tell everyone else how to do it though.
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If that was an enforced rule this forum would only have a couple of hundred posts instead of 59,000 :eek::D

I wonder if that 59,000 includes all the deleted stuff :D:p
 
Dan said:
Really! I would not have guessed there were a lot of 10/22's in the Ukraine. Possibly it's a translation thing that is keeping you from understanding the silliness of the experiment you propose. Or maybe this is just a joke brought to us under an alias. I won't play anymore.
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Actually more than you probably think but I know there are a lot in the United States as I have been there extensively. Mostly in the Ukraine, at clubs, you will see Anschutz 64's, CZ's and probably a few you've never heard of, but it's the same difference.
 
Benchrester,

You mention putting 8 ounces at the muzzle. Does this mean if you put just 6 ounces on your muzzle your rifle would not shoot as good? Or, does it mean if you went up to 10 ounces on your muzzle your rifle might shoot better?

The Ukraine must be wonderful this time of year.
 
benchrester, global warming and barrel tuning both have one thing in common. if in the begining they were called what they really are, climate change and barrel timing every person would understand the two.
 
Have to disagree Martin. Climate change is a result of global warming. And I've watched this board for a long time and never saw anybody but you use the phrase "barrel timing". You coined it; you keep it.

But on second thought, tell me what a tuner is and how it works?
 
squatty said:
Benchrester,

You mention putting 8 ounces at the muzzle. Does this mean if you put just 6 ounces on your muzzle your rifle would not shoot as good? Or, does it mean if you went up to 10 ounces on your muzzle your rifle might shoot better?

The Ukraine must be wonderful this time of year.
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Six ounces may work as well as 10. I think somewhere you would get too light to have an effect adn too heavy to be practical. I just used eight because they all seem to weigh eight. I bet if you could trace why, it would be that Calfee's original tuner weighed eight. When Calfee speaks everybody listens. He used to be E.F. Hutton you know.
 
Tuner effect?...

What Sukhorukov is stating is that prone or position shooters cannot detect the effect of a tuner on their shooting. This is something I've confirmed with a few of the best shooters in the world (national champions). This has been my own experience too. The effect of tuners on a rifle shot from the bench is more easily "sensed", but still very difficult to measure.

This is not to say most rifles will not show improvement when weight is added to the barrel but this is not quite what most shooters claim as "tuning", or "timing". They in general are talking about moving the weight a small amount to achieve some improvement in accuracy.

Most shooters will start with a pretty good rifle - without a tuner - probably something shooting .350 to maybe .250 group averages. They hope the tuner will hold their average down around the low end of those averages but with the nature of a rim fire to spread it's group about .05 either side of the average it becomes really difficult to pin down just what the tuner is doing. When a "sweet spot" is reached in the tuning process it is in many cases just a "gut feel" reaction to what the rifle is doing, rather than something occurring in fact.
 
pacecil, disagree there is a reason anshutz put the reverse taper barrel on their posistion rifles. that's the sporter version of a tuner and 10 years from know those who do their own lathe work will be doing to 10.5 and 13lb rifles. the sporter guys are a few years ahead of the heavy rifle guys. just like the air rifles were ahead of the .22 guys a few years back.
 
benchrester if you have followed these threads and posts you know how my tuners work. what you don't know is how these other guys tuners work.
 
martin,
Some guys have been making the muzzle end of 10.5 rifle barrels larger than the rest of the barrel for quite some time, so that idea isn't ten years out, it's been done. A friend of mine did it for a long time, but I think he stopped doing it because he couldn't tell a difference with a properly lapped RF barrel. He's built some great rifles. It's a big world, and most of the stuff thought up on this forum has already been done, or is being done now, without being spoke of. Until an idea has proven itself consistently in competition, it has little relevance to the competitors. And it confuses the crap out of the new guys trying to get started!
 
Benchrester said:
Six ounces may work as well as 10. I think somewhere you would get too light to have an effect adn too heavy to be practical. I just used eight because they all seem to weigh eight. I bet if you could trace why, it would be that Calfee's original tuner weighed eight. When Calfee speaks everybody listens. He used to be E.F. Hutton you know.
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Thanks for your response

Earlier you said we could put 8 ounces on our muzzles, flush or in front, and if we moved the weight forward, or rearward an inch, the gun would not shoot any different.

This is probably going to sound like Calfee, heaven forbid, but if the weight in of itself is what causes a tuner to produce better accuracy, then 8 ounces would be better than 6 and 10 ounces would be better than 8 and 12 ounces would be better than 10 and, well you see where I'm going.

For some reason I have a feeling that the weight in and of itself is not what causes a tuner, muzzle device as Calfee calls them, to produce increased accuracy.
 
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