Okay, TUNERS AGAIN. Bukys/Schmidt style versus Beggs???????????????

CYanchycki

CYanchycki

Club Coordinator
Okay there is TONS of info in regards to Gene Beggs Tuner and how to install it and use it. I totally get it.

Now there is the tuner style that Jackie Schmidt and Gene Bukys use. There is something about them that I do not get.

There is basically next to NO info on how they work or what there purpose is. What I am getting at if one wanted to make one to try or buy there are non available to buy or specs on how to build one and use it. What I mean by what there purpose is, these tuners are screwed on the barrel and tightened with pinch bolts to not be moved again. These gentlemen then tune with powder leaving the tuner alone.

Then I ask myself, "Self, what benefit is there tuner if it is screwed on the barrel and never adjusted?"

What am I missing here???????? How is it used? Where is the sweet spot or how is it found?

Calvin
 
Buckys is the one that does not move his tuner after it is set. I believe that Jackie does, and in some conditions plays with powder as well. Gene will tell you that he believes that a proper tuner broadens the node. My much less notable experience is in agreement. In addition I would say that for the vast majority of middle of the pack barrels, a tuner can increase average accuracy....slightly. Obviously one does not have to have a tuner to win matches. On the other hand, when one of the best shooters to come down the pike in a while uses one......
 
IMO, if a tuner is used to tune the barrel as Buckys does then it is a useful tool.

If it is used to help adjust the load then the tuner has just added another variable to keep up with.
 
JerrySharrett said:
IMO, if a tuner is used to tune the barrel as Buckys does then it is a useful tool.

If it is used to help adjust the load then the tuner has just added another variable to keep up with.
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That is what I am trying to find out Jerry. How DOES he use his tuner to tune? What steps are taken?

I see the Beggs tuner as a way of tuning throughout the day instead of changing your powder. With the Schmidt/Bukys they tune without,then with, and then just alter powder????

I do see the advantage of the use of rubber in there tuner design as it helps in the vibration dampening.

Calvin
 
Calvin,
Have you thoroughly reviewed everything on Varmint Al's web site that relates to tuners? If you have not, that would be the first place to go. He graphs where the barrel is pointing, on tartget, through its primary swing, after firing. Adding weight modifies the frequency (slows the barrel down) so that the bullet can exit the muzzle as it is rising, which gives some compensation for differences in velocity within a group, rather than as it it falling, where velocity differences cause exaggerated vertical (by comparison). IMO understanding what is going on with added weight is very important if you are going to experiment with tuners.
Boyd
 
CYanchycki said:
Okay there is TONS of info in regards to Gene Beggs Tuner and how to install it and use it. I totally get it. Now there is the tuner style that Jackie Schmidt and Gene Bukys use. There is basically next to NO info on how they work or what their purpose is. What am I missing here? Calvin
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You might be missing the information for ordering Gene Beggs tuner. Here it is:

Gene Beggs
156 Conley Place
Odessa, Texas 79762
e-mail: genebeggs@cableone.net
Phone: 432-367-0329
Cell phone: 432-631-5124
 
Gene told me that he tunes a new barrel to shoot as well as possible...without tuner. Then he puts the tuner on and tries to get the same level of accuracy. When it matches or exceeds the original tune, he locks it down and does not change it. Any changes made during the match is with the powder charge. Good shooting...James
 
In CF benchrest there seems to be 2 camps of thought. I am not saying either one is correct, incorrect or better.
The one James listed above is one the other is that the tuner is used/moved during the day to account for weather changes. This is done instead of adjusting the powder load.
I dont know how Gene Beggs shoots but I do believe that he described the use of his to me in exactly this manner. Several shooters I know use their tuners in this manner.
 
abintx said:
You might be missing the information for ordering Gene Beggs tuner. Here it is:

Gene Beggs
156 Conley Place
Odessa, Texas 79762
e-mail: genebeggs@cableone.net
Phone: 432-367-0329
Cell phone: 432-631-5124
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Nope, I can guarantee you he has that info... Through a friend I have given it to him. What his question is as I read it... There is tons of info on the Beggs tuner... Butch Lambert also sells his tuner, and Jackie uses his own tuner... Why is there so much info on the Beggs tuner, and so Little info on the other tuners? Is there some secret that they don't want to let out? or is there some info that changes from barrel to barrel? or is there some things that happen that just cant be explained.

I have Gene Beggs tuners and I have used them with some good success. I have installed Beggs tuners for myself and others, and I have sold Beggs tuners. I too would like to know how it is that other guys use and sell similar tuners, but offer up very little info on the actual use of the tuner. In talking with Gene Beggs, I do not get the same answers that you have James. In fact I get just the opposite. Once a good load is found, you can keep the load there and adjust the barrel (tuner) as needed to keep the vertical out. The beauty of that is the ability to adjust your vertical when it matters, at the shooting bench... not at the loading bench.

Paul
 
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Calvin, I see that you have been on this site a bit longer than I but I will attempt to answer your concern. A while back when there was the intense interest in developing a tuner for a centerfire rifle several people worked very hard to provide a tuner for themselves or a tuner to sell. I remember Jackie S going into great detail about how his tuner was made. What I cannot remember today is if I read it in Precision Shooting or at this web site. Anyway awhile ago the archives were lost on BRC, I think, and I do not know if this is why all this information cannot be located in the history-search file.
Hope this helps, if I am incorrect I apologise maybe some of the guys will remember this also.
Centerfire
 
OK, here is what I do.

I have a "pet load" for most bullet-powder-barrel combinations. When I install a new barrel, I put this load in and tune with the tuner untill the barrel is shooting as well as I can make it. Many times this is where I will leave it, I will only move the tuner if things really get bad.

On my score Rifle, (30BR), I will adjust the tuner to keep a tad of verticle in the Rifle. Nothing is worse than having that "flat tune", where any slight wind seems to make the bullets go left or right more than you can read the flags.

Gene's tuner and mine are similiar, in that we both use a rubber vibration feature. Gene, I think, calls his a "snubber". Both feature a split with a socket head cap screw that cinches the tuner so it fits snuggly on the barrel and will not move.

I use a .900 diameter 36 pitch thread in the tuner and on the barrel. The tuner weighs about 5 ounces. It is easy to adjust, and I believe that "snubber feature' does broaden the load window.

Gene's tuner prowness speaks for its self. He has won just about everything there is to win.
 
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Jackie during the day when climate conditions change, do you adjust your load or your tuner?
 
Vern, on the Score Rifle, I just watch for that flat tune I alluded too. On my group Rifles, which shoot 133, I just adjust the load as the humidity falls, usually going up on the load.

I really try to avoid moving the tuner unless the Rifle develops wayy too much verticle, or just plain stops shooting. But in all reality, if I get that lost, not much is going to help.......jackie
 
The tuners in question,I call dynamic dampers.Take a mallet(hard leather)hold barrel lightly(that is not on the rifle)wack it,it will ring like a church bell.Wack a barrel with a GB style tuner you will get a solid thud,once you see someone do that,you will go wow.Adjust tuner by hitting barrel,turn damper till the thud is as thudy as it gets,lock down,good place to start.Todd
 
CYanchycki said:
That is what I am trying to find out Jerry. What steps are taken?

II do see the advantage of the use of rubber in there tuner design as it helps in the vibration dampening.

Calvin
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Here's a way to use a tuner, not the only way but a way I found that keeps things simple. First it takes a medium to heavy tuner to work effectively. By medium to heavy I mean about 8 ounces or more. Take a normally standard load that over time that you have used a lot.

Pros for this method-
Starting with your new barrel that you don't know what the tune is and use that load and the tuner to get best accuracy (hopefully 3-shot group in the zeros up to mid ones). Now you have the barrel tuned to its max.

From then on in competition do not adjust the tuner. Remember, you have the barrel at its maximum potential. As future adjustments are needed do it with the load and bullet seating.

You will eventually figure out that if you use the tuner AND the load variables to tune you have just added another variable to have to screw around with.

Cons for this method-
Usually you will have to either use the small end of a LV barrel or turn some off the barrel to make LV weight especially if you are using a Leupold LCS or March scopes.
But, then with the light weight tuners many shooters use you have to thread the barrel anyway.
 
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