Match fees ... Are they too high?

Art

I think $15 is reasonable for a single aggregate Club Match.

Of course there is a limit to what shooters will pay. It is more of a perseption thing than anything, everything has a break point. Shooters will simply say "I'm not paying that". Maybe $14.99 would be better.:D

As has been said many times in this thread, as long as Clubs have volunteers to do the work, we can keep match fees at a reasonable cost.

There are Matches that are held with the expressed intent on making a profit. The Super Shoot comes to mind. I can't even begin to amagine what it takes to organize a show such as that. The Kelblys know how to do it, they have invested in a proper facility, so we should not feel bad that they can actually make a little profit. The prestige of the event allows for a premium fee. Shooters know this coming in. I suppose putting on the Super Shoot would get old pretty quick if all you had to show for your efforts was a tired back and a range to clean up.

National Events are another venue where the club, or individule, stands to reap a good profit. First, there is a guaranteed number of shooters. You know going in that you will have x number of dollars to play with. With good mangement skills, and attention to detail, a healthy profit can be had. That is, if you are not working by the hour.

I know of some Nationals that lost money for the directors, and some that made a healthy profit. What do you suppose the difference is in the way the Clubs, (or individules), approached the endevour.

But still, the vast majority of Matches, whether they are Club or Registered, are tended to by volunteer shooters who stand to gain nothing more than a big "attaboy" at the end of the day.

But then, sometimes that is worth more than any small profit that could be harvested.......jackie
 
The NBRSA

allows $100.00 for a 2 day shoot. I have paid $65.00 - $100.00 for a 2 day shoot and some other prices too. I reckon allot has to do with the award structure, volunteer help and or lack there of. Correct me IF I am wrong; IMO I believe it takes a lot more work (during the match) to run the group matches as targets and backers both have to collected, compared for a 5 shot count, scored, printed and posted after (asap) each match, five per agg. Outside of the actual match ALL the work is basically the same labor wise in Group and Score. One may have to pay for a Range Officer too. A lot of the costs are invisible to the competitors who show up, shoot and head for home. Also, figure in this, in the NBRSA there is NOT a Factory class so a tiered system is a mute point. In Group and Score both, there are range fees, targets, frames, moving backer systems (for Group) and added stationary backers for National events, scoring devices, computer, printer, printer paper and ink, awards and ordering the same, labor costs, tabulations, mailings, e-mailings, match reports (mandatory) to the sanctioning parties and contestants, record keepings, range maintenance along clean-up.
Most ranges require a PA system, range "HOT" flags, an area of safety for the Ranger Officer to view the relays while calling the line, fuel for generators
(we do not have power at our range) and vehicle fuel to travel out and back for the targets along with Porta Pot rentals and the time it takes to pick up and return (it saves $$$ instead of them delivering) A lot of this seems insignificant but in reality it all adds costs to putting on a shoot. I like going "other " ranges, paying my fees and enjoying the week-end and not having to "work" the match. We usually get some help from the shooters when changing the backers between yardages and it really helps a bunch. Thanks, you guys know who you are. Be well, shoot well.... Jan
 
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Let me see now:

Shooting fee’s $ 15 a day some ranges!
Shooting fee’s $ 45 a day some ranges!

Just having a Range to shoot your sport

PRICELESS!!!!
:cool:
 
A little more empathy and listening can go a long way if this sport is to expand. Perhaps we can't reduce fees and other costs and the only shooters who will eventually become stalwarts are only those with deep pockets.
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It sounds like you're saying that if the people/clubs who have a ton invested in a range will reduce fees (take a loss) there is just a slight chance that some young guy may just decide to get into benchrest shooting. If, however, that young person does not then the person/club should look for more ways to entice a potential shooter.

I've been building Rachel's Glen for a twenty year period. I've built the firing line 3 times and reworked (improved) the range 3 times and built target frames 5 times, moving backers 3 times. The motor for the moving backers cost me $500 alone.

The cover over the firing line was $7000+ when Hurricane Ivan demolished the old one.
I mow the range at least 5 times a year, pay taxes on the property. I run our matches with four people and we run as good a match as you can find. We have two people for a target crew, Brady is the R.O./singer and I measure targets and do the stats.

Trophies cost ~$400, range office $250 and target crew is $350. I send the NBRSA $2/per shooter/per day, pay the region $30 per match. Targets are about $.12 each not to mention paper and toner, computer and printer.

I don't have a clue if we'll have 25 or 45 shooters at a match. I have about $40,000 in the range. There ain't much return on my money in holding matches.

I, myself, shot benchrest for 20 years. I just lost interest in shooting so I can easily understand others dropping out of the game. People constantly talk about how expensive benchrest is but they will spend far more hunting, fishing, or other sports if that's where their heart is. Truth be told, benchrest just does not appeal to a wide range of interests and nothing is going to change that. You may interest someone for a time but if they don't love it, they ain't going to stay.

I have the only benchrest matches in Alabama now. I'd love to quit holding them but just hate to take another range away from those who love the sport. It's just a matter of time until I just quit, though.
 
I feel no need...

MColeman said:
It sounds like you're saying that if the people/clubs who have a ton invested in a range will reduce fees (take a loss) there is just a slight chance that some young guy may just decide to get into benchrest shooting. If, however, that young person does not then the person/club should look for more ways to entice a potential shooter.

I've been building Rachel's Glen for a twenty year period. I've built the firing line 3 times and reworked (improved) the range 3 times and built target frames 5 times, moving backers 3 times. The motor for the moving backers cost me $500 alone.

The cover over the firing line was $7000+ when Hurricane Ivan demolished the old one.
I mow the range at least 5 times a year, pay taxes on the property. I run our matches with four people and we run as good a match as you can find. We have two people for a target crew, Brady is the R.O./singer and I measure targets and do the stats.

Trophies cost ~$400, range office $250 and target crew is $350. I send the NBRSA $2/per shooter/per day, pay the region $30 per match. Targets are about $.12 each not to mention paper and toner, computer and printer.

I don't have a clue if we'll have 25 or 45 shooters at a match. I have about $40,000 in the range. There ain't much return on my money in holding matches.

I, myself, shot benchrest for 20 years. I just lost interest in shooting so I can easily understand others dropping out of the game. People constantly talk about how expensive benchrest is but they will spend far more hunting, fishing, or other sports if that's where their heart is. Truth be told, benchrest just does not appeal to a wide range of interests and nothing is going to change that. You may interest someone for a time but if they don't love it, they ain't going to stay.

I have the only benchrest matches in Alabama now. I'd love to quit holding them but just hate to take another range away from those who love the sport. It's just a matter of time until I just quit, though.
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You are EXACTLY right. I feel no need to even discuss this further. No one in this game makes money or is in it for the money (they'd starve). Attending matches is not the expensive part of this sport.

virg
 
Gentlemen ...

The idea of this Thread was to present a subject which heretofore seemed to have escaped discussion and to arouse the opinions of those interested. I believe this has been accomplished. Thanks for your candid comments and your time. Art :)
 
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Mickey

MColeman said:
It sounds like you're saying that if the people/clubs who have a ton invested in a range will reduce fees (take a loss) there is just a slight chance that some young guy may just decide to get into benchrest shooting. If, however, that young person does not then the person/club should look for more ways to entice a potential shooter.

I've been building Rachel's Glen for a twenty year period. I've built the firing line 3 times and reworked (improved) the range 3 times and built target frames 5 times, moving backers 3 times. The motor for the moving backers cost me $500 alone.

The cover over the firing line was $7000+ when Hurricane Ivan demolished the old one.
I mow the range at least 5 times a year, pay taxes on the property. I run our matches with four people and we run as good a match as you can find. We have two people for a target crew, Brady is the R.O./singer and I measure targets and do the stats.

Trophies cost ~$400, range office $250 and target crew is $350. I send the NBRSA $2/per shooter/per day, pay the region $30 per match. Targets are about $.12 each not to mention paper and toner, computer and printer.

I don't have a clue if we'll have 25 or 45 shooters at a match. I have about $40,000 in the range. There ain't much return on my money in holding matches.

I, myself, shot benchrest for 20 years. I just lost interest in shooting so I can easily understand others dropping out of the game. People constantly talk about how expensive benchrest is but they will spend far more hunting, fishing, or other sports if that's where their heart is. Truth be told, benchrest just does not appeal to a wide range of interests and nothing is going to change that. You may interest someone for a time but if they don't love it, they ain't going to stay.

I have the only benchrest matches in Alabama now. I'd love to quit holding them but just hate to take another range away from those who love the sport. It's just a matter of time until I just quit, though.
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Thanks for providing a place to shoot.

Later
Dave
 
!

thanks mickey
i will support whatever i can when i can!


on a side note i have routinely paid entry fees to show horses that total 500 for a weekend but i expect to win it back if i place and if i win i expect at least 4 times the entry fee. i kinda slow down putting out 50 when there is no payback.
 
We shoot 600yd IBS matches at Bridgeville DE. Our Fee's are $35.00 for the first gun and $25.00 for the second gun. Those fee's pay for Targets, Backer's, Kids that pull the targets all day, Awards and your Meal. Yes your Meal. Bud and Richard fix an outstanding meal for the shooters. One match maybe Maryland Blue crab with all the fix'ins and so on. You never leave hungry. Some of the shooters go for the food more than the shooting. Now that's worth the Match Fee's. The $2.00 that is paid to the IBS i don't agree with unless it is going into an account to help the club for that year that is hosting the nationals. There is rules that you can not limit the amount of shooters at Nationals. I agree with that. But if a smaller club wants to hold Nationals and only has help for 2 to 3 days and only has 10 benches, Than that's where the IBS should get with that club and find out what their needs are to run Nationals without limitations on the shooters. If 5 more benches are needed, get a cost and the club as well as the IBS share the expense. That way the next time that club holds the Nationals it's all ready to do so. Or have one centeral location and have it there each year. St Louis would be a fine spot. Right now the clubs pay for everything except the IBS $.75 patches. plus follows all the requirements that the IBS puts on them. Heck even the score reticle is going to cost you after the first free one and it has to be the IBS reticle. I would sure like to see a Finicial Statement for the year posted so everyone would see how the money is brokendown and what it is used for. That may eliminate alot of these questions on where the money goes and how much do we have in the IBS to help out the clubs. We try to recruit shooters, We need to recruit clubs and get them up and running and the shooters will come.
 
Club BR matches in Birmingham

We have monthly matches at the Steel City Sports Shooting Society in Birmingham, shoot one match on Saturday morning starting at 9:00 every third Saturday of the month, and we're packed up and going home by 12:00. We charge $10 per shooter, keep enough money to buy targets and pay back the rest. Depending on the number of shooters, we pay either two or three places.

Out of about 700 members, we average around 12 shooters per match. Actually we are experiencing some growth, and we think when we have some good weather we may get up to 15 or more shooters. Last match it was raining and in the 30s, but we stilll had 13 shooters.

If you're in the area and would like to, come on and shoot with us. Guests are welcome.

Oh, by the way, all of us in Birmingham are extremely thankful to Mickey for all the great matches he has put on for us over the years.
 
How many of us

ray porter said:
thanks mickey
i will support whatever i can when i can!


on a side note i have routinely paid entry fees to show horses that total 500 for a weekend but i expect to win it back if i place and if i win i expect at least 4 times the entry fee. i kinda slow down putting out 50 when there is no payback.
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would be up for paying a $50 entry fee if we were to get most of it or more than the $50 back if we were in the top three? Perhaps we are missing something here.
 
During the summer i shoot some Groundhog Matches in Pa. They do the pay back and the entry fees are not even $50.00. Just because of the amount of shooters, they are able to pay down to 5 and 6 places. It helps with gas and a meal. Here's an idea, Why not try to get things donated from venders and make them prizes.(Barrel and Bullet Certificates,Cleaning Supplies, Wind Flags and so on). Money or Prizes is the way to go. Can't use a plaque for anything except dust collecting. Western Pa Groundhog Match has the highest turn out of shooters per match that i have ever seen. They hold a 2 day Championship match in Sept and they always have to cut it off at 150 guns. Why is that the best game in town, The fees are low, You can shoot different classes, The people are real friendly and the rules don't change.
 
The grass is greeener

There seems to be one common thought in this thread. All the ranges and all the suppliers are rolling in dough and making a killing . These people are the ones who took the chance to start a business with no guarantee of success.

Not pointing a finger at anyone here, but how many of the posters on this thread are in business for themselves? Just because someone is in business doesn't mean he can donate to everything that comes along. It ain't all profit guys.

Later
Dave
 
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I'm too lazy to start at the front of this thread. If there are people posting here that think range owners or one of the guys putting on a match are doing well, I suggest you take Mickey Coleman up on his offer on another thread that he has started. You can rent his range at a reasonable price and run your own match. You can keep all that is left over.
Butch
 
That's a great idea, that way we can pay back and not require a membership to any organazation or send in fee's. Sound's like a plan. A better plan would be a member in a club that hold's all these other registered matches, Schedule a match a different weekend so not to conflict with them. Pay back would be alot better as well as the turn out without paying rent.
 
Forget about it!!!!

Please sign up for my mail in match. It will only cost you alittle time IF you have a PC or phone device. Send me a e-mail or call, ( no postage ) with what you think you will shoot on Valentines Day for a 200 yard agg, ( one gun) along with $7.50. I will pay back for 5 places and send the rest to the NBRSA, Checks, Visa and Pay Pal accepted. I will not weigh rifles, Brakes are OK, any Caliber, and no match time limits etc. Of course there will be no Match Report or record kept of your .098 agg but what the heck. Good luck and send in the agg. and $$$$. )chill(
 
Match Fees

Hey guys if any of you are interested in 1000 yard shooting the PA 1000 yard club pays back money if you win your relay for group or score. then if you win the shoot off, you can win (depending on number of shooters) 80 plus you can win about $75 for first place,then there are pay outs for second and third as well. Oh and 50% pay back for closest to center. Membership is $50 bucks, shooting fee's are $20. any other Questions our web site is www.pa1000yard.com or call me 315-342-3088.

Also or World Open has prizes you would really like, from action to scopes,barrels, bullets, you name it. Our world opens usually get about 140 shooters. We are usually able to give prizes for both classes down to about 20th place. :)

Joe Salt
 
Range Fees

Yep their outta hand :eek:. Cost me 3 Bucks (per session):rolleyes:to enter our bi-weekly Hunter/BR compitition and another Buck to shoot 1 (just 1) shot in the 22 compitition. Sakes alive the Payout, the Payouts are zilch-ZERO, nothing but BRAGGING rights for 2 weeks (till the next match).Wanna know how much those BRAGGING RIGHTS are worth, well A mid 70s Win. push feed, all factory mdl 70 sporter in 270 win. CLEANED a Tubb 2000 in 6.5 Creedmoore @200yds in group/score :D:D:D. Bragging rights are PRICELESS.
 
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Dave Coots said:
There seems to be one common thought in this thread. All the ranges and all the suppliers are rolling in dough and making a killing . These people are the ones who took the chance to start a business with no guarantee of success.

Not pointing a finger at anyone here, but how many of the posters on this thread are in business for themselves? Just because someone is in business doesn't mean he can donate to everything that comes along. It ain't all profit guys.

Later
Dave
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I am a self-employed contractor and business is very poor with no signs of improvement in the near future. We small businessmen that have negative income ( our expenses exceed our profits) do not factor into the unemployment statistic..even though we do not have any work.

This is definitely NOT the time to ask our sponsors or competitors for more.Personally, my attendance will be limited to all but the most local IBS score shoots.

Plaques and 250 stickers are fine. I have even donated the plaque back to the club.
 
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