Match fees ... Are they too high?

R. Rains said:
Increase attendance and after time this will help the clubs increase revenue then maybe decrease cost. We need more shooters, there are alot of people that are second guessing the AR issue with the IBS, but you have to give them credit for trying to increase the shooters at the bench. And maybe we should invite the Varmint shooters to attend the IBS matches as well. So why are you bitching about $100.00, increase attendance which will maybe lower cost and keep the ranges in business so that we can shoot. So let's stop the BS and increase the shooters so that will all can enjoy this sport for many more years to come or you can complain about the $100.00 and do nothing about it and have nowhere to shoot in the near future.
Russell
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I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Running successful matches; like any thing else in this world related to money, is all about marketing.

How are clubs marketing these matches? Do they leave fliers with local guns shops, shooting ranges and other firearms related business? Or do they just rely on word of mouth and getting bechrest shooters to get the word out?
Having sponsors for major matches will usually cut down costs if they are inclined to get on board. But what is the incentive for a company to sponsor a match? Will it draw enough competitors and spectators to even be worthwhile?

The IBS website is pretty good about posting match results and even equipment lists. The NBRSA website looks like it hasn't been updated since 2001 and match results are nowhere to be found.

Like I've said before, this sport's target demographic has to go beyond the AARP crowd if it wants to grow and have the mass appeal that other shooting sports have. The fudd mentality has to go.
 
You would be surprised

You would be surprised what it costs to put-on a Registered Match. For one thing, we are not even sure how many will show-up to shoot the match.

We lose money on some matches and make a small profit on others. The profit if you can call it that is put back into repair of equipment. I have put money from my own pocket into improving what it takes to put-on a match.
I have some really great friends that help or we would not be able to have the matches in the first place.

Work as a Match Director and put-on a Registered Match and you will soon find out why we charge $50.00 a day. I had shooters complain about charging $50.00 a day last year. Only 15 shooters showed-up Saturday and we only had 14 shooters on Sunday. It is not really worth putting-on the match, but we did it anyway.

When you travel to a match, thank the people who have put forth the effort to make their range available for your enjoyment before you leave for home.

GW
 
Russell ...

R. Rains said:
Increase attendance and after time this will help the clubs increase revenue then maybe decrease cost. We need more shooters, there are alot of people that are second guessing the AR issue with the IBS, but you have to give them credit for trying to increase the shooters at the bench. And maybe we should invite the Varmint shooters to attend the IBS matches as well. So why are you bitching about $100.00, increase attendance which will maybe lower cost and keep the ranges in business so that we can shoot. So let's stop the BS and increase the shooters so that will all can enjoy this sport for many more years to come or you can complain about the $100.00 and do nothing about it and have nowhere to shoot in the near future. Russell
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I retired twice. I can easily afford the routine expenses of a match, travel and all the paraphernalia required to shoot.

However, I've walked around during matches speaking with the younger factory class shooters, where the next group of custom shooters will hopefully come from. Without skipping a beat, the comments I've heard is that they love the sport, but are struggling day to day.

Some are finding ways to afford the fees. Most are not. It doesn't take long before they disappear from the line. Remember that shooter you saw for awhile but you never see again? I hate to see that happen because you know they enjoyed it.

A little more empathy and listening can go a long way if this sport is to expand. Perhaps we can't reduce fees and other costs and the only shooters who will eventually become stalwarts are only those with deep pockets. :)
 
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All the comments above byFBecigneul are probably worth every efforts to attract new shooters to the sports to reduce operating cost of matches. This is how I found out about benchrest shooting. About a year ago Virg who is known to our family for over 20 years invited to me to shoot with his match with any gun to see if this is shooting sport I would like to do. Shortly after my first match I acquired a HV 30br, and later last year a LV 6PPC. I probably would not have been involved with this sport had Virgil not encouraged or exposed me to this sport. However, in spite of vigorous advertisement not many young shooters will venture to this expensive sports. Most likely majority of them would buy an AR 15 base flatform.

I applaud Virgil as a Match Director with Austin Rifle Club as he is a multi tasks person; he does everything by himself with no frill awards incentives which help reduces the operating cost, plus at the same time he also participates in the match. However, the cost of operating a club match or a registered match is different with every club as stated by many as they offer different set of unique circurmstances such fees for support personnel, recovery of capital expenditures of the range limited to the benchrest shooting, awards etc, and what makes this interesting are the choices available to anyone as to which one or where to participate with any of these clubs or registered matches knowing what to expect for participating. I personally do not believe that lowered fees shall attract more shooters at any club as the primary incentives for participating in a match but rather it is for the love of the sports and some competitive spirit and what that particular club offers.

I know Art and he is a real gentleman a retired Navy Commander.

My two cents worth of opinion only.
 
abintx said:
What's interesting, is that the comments so far, have not centered on what's being done to REDUCE costs, but only explanations as to why costs are what they are. If Virg Howarth and Jackie Schmidt can run a match for $10 and $15 respectively, why can't the rest?
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Art you are comparing apples and oranges.
Club match versus Registered.
My local club match is $5.00. And if I show up. I am the target crew.
 
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R. Rains said:
Increase attendance and after time this will help the clubs increase revenue then maybe decrease cost. We need more shooters, there are alot of people that are second guessing the AR issue with the IBS, but you have to give them credit for trying to increase the shooters at the bench. And maybe we should invite the Varmint shooters to attend the IBS matches as well. So why are you bitching about $100.00, increase attendance which will maybe lower cost and keep the ranges in business so that we can shoot. So let's stop the BS and increase the shooters so that will all can enjoy this sport for many more years to come or you can complain about the $100.00 and do nothing about it and have nowhere to shoot in the near future.
Russell
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Russell.
WE did that a couple years ago. Just copies of ground hogs, birds, prairie dogs. You don't know what the target looks like or the yardage till you get to the match. :eek:
And this is our best attended match.
Oh, and no wind flags....
 
Bingo

Personally I believe the lack of new young shooters in our sport is the lack of the commitment and discipline that most of the shooting sports demand if one is to excel. This is not a sport that one can buy their way into the winners circle. Also, there is no big money to be won, and no big paying endorsements to land. And if these items did exist...such as $100K awaiting the winner, the friendly advice and camaraderie would soon disappear. I can imagine one asking the winner what 6ppc load he/she used and getting the answer, " oh, 29grs of Bullseye works great."

Well...on to the next match; love'em.

Virg

Also try this.
When you travel to a match, thank the people who have put forth the effort to make their range available for your enjoyment before you leave for home.

GW[/QUOTE]

Anyone that thinks the ranges are making a killing can go into competetion with them. All you have to do is start your own range, lowball the entry fee, and run surrounding ranges out of business. Then you can make a killing off the unsuspecting shooters. Piece of cake.

Later
Dave
 
Zippy

zippy06 said:
Art you are comparing apples and oranges.
Club match versus Registered.
My local club match is $5.00. And if I show up. I am the target crew.
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In Austin, we pay $10 for a Registered match, $5 for the Club match. :)
 
Hey Art,
That's cool.
I thought, you were comparing the 2 day Benchrest Tournament to the 2 hour score match local club.
Sorry, my mistake.

This is a good Thread. Especially for the winter discussion board......thing.....
 
Match fees

It started out as a $50 match fee . That's the limit on a group shoot
Registered match. Just to keep the topic straight.
Does anyone want the list of thing to do before a registered match in group? Gerry
 
Well.....

abintx said:
However, I've walked around during matches speaking with the younger factory class shooters, where the next group of custom shooters will hopefully come from. Without skipping a beat, the comments I've heard is that they love the sport, but are struggling day to day.

Some are finding ways to afford the fees. Most are not. It doesn't take long before they disappear from the line. Remember that shooter you saw for awhile but you never see again? I hate to see that happen because you know they enjoyed it.:)
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No doubt some of the above is true, however, in the past few years I've lost six to seven Hunter shooters who moved up from factory to Benchrest rifles. Five to lay off and divorce (more pressing issues than Benchrest shooting), and two deaths (even more final).

One issue is steadily eating into the youth potential for Benchrest. That is service rifle and action pistol competition. One can readily see the huge proliferation of military style shooting items at any gun show. Twenty years ago military related stuff at gun shows comprised about 10-15 percent of the tables. Now it's more like 75-80 percent. It's kinda funny but even about 10-15 percent of the patrons are walking around at the shows in their "soldier of fortune" fatigues.

At the Austin Rifle Club, the High power and service rifle matches draw 35-40 shooters consistently. Our new action pistol ranges (5) draw even more.

Let's face it; our particular shooting discipline demands "perfect" performance during a match. Shooting an 8 in score or putting one a half inch out in group, and one can't hope to win. Plus we have no classes; no Marksman, no Expert, no Master or Hi-Master classes. One has to start off competing against the very best in that match. "Sit down boy and shoot, never mind, you're not going to beat Tony unless his equipment fails". That's a pretty rough beginning. But that's the way it is...and I like it.

In todays youthful world, it's not "cool" to compete against the best. "Hey, I don't care about the best, I'll determine what's best". Example; todays music. This benchrest stuff is to hard. "What...you have to reload your own"? "I buy the best factory stuff, that oughta work".

That's just some of the attitudes we face in todays world. But...sometimes a very few come along and observe our matches and do get attracted to our precision shooting world. There're worth all the encouragement we can give. And...from all the experience I've been exposed to over the past two decades...we do.

Virg
 
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Jan ...

Virg, not only has all his ducks lined up in order, for $10 bucks you also get efficiency, years of wisdom, a sharp eye for details, occasionally a joke, the weather report, camaraderie, and the right to have fun taking down and putting up targets as part of a two man team. You can't ask for more than that. ;)

P.S. See what I mean about the wisdom! :)
 
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Hey Art

abintx said:
In Austin, we pay $10 for a Registered match, $5 for the Club match. :)
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The Tomball Gun Club has a VFS & HTR match scheduled for July 17 & 18th. 100 & 200 yard will be shot both days. Come on over and shoot with us.

To me a match is a weekend of shooting. I can understand why you guys only charge $10.00. You have only one yardage and the match starts at 1:00 P.M.

Hope to see you in July.

GW
 
Just my $.02 worth on this one!
I am trying BR because I just don't feel like attempting to contort myself into positions any longer! Please re-read this last sentence!
Those that have a history in bullseye competition have already invested a lot of deneros to the sport...I believe that there are many that are ready to switch, just as I am. I believe that many would sell their current equipmet to change venues!
Recruiting these people is a rich field...IMHO
Mark
 
I don't complain about match fees, I don't expect anything for nothing, I think a lot of shooters young and old, that love this extreme sport shoot as many matches as they can aford. I know if I have the money and the match is within about 8 hours from home I'll go, I also know what its like to not be able to aford the gas much less the fees. I have had to sit home more than once cause other things took priority ($)! I also know we have a lot of well healed shooters who do help with more donations than others, but I also know without listing companies or names, there are a hell of a lot of em out there that got there pockets greased buy the BR shooters!!! and it spread to other shooters given em there money, and more than a few of them that will give your club a discount but don't look for donation. I'm not talkin money but trophies, ribons, awards, with the people this class of shooter have made financialy comfortable no club should have to buy handouts to class winners with club fees, I buy enough equipment supplies and other tools from all of them to know there are more who could put back to the sport and not worry about shareholders. There are plenty who started by selling barrels, bullets, actions, precision tools, scopes you name it, if we use it the word gets out and next thing you know there gettin buisnes from small time match shooters, varmint hunters you name it, but it started here with your money and mine! just my two cents, I think more of need to help clubs come up with more top shooter awards, just my feeling, the rest of you THANKS YOU DO ONE HELL OF A JOB!! Ussualy for one thing ---THANKS----!!
 
abintx said:
Virg, not only has all his ducks lined up in order, for $10 bucks you also get efficiency, years of wisdom, a sharp eye for details, occasionally a joke, the weather report, camaraderie, and the right to have fun taking down and putting up targets as part of a two man team. You can't ask for more than that. ;)

P.S. See what I mean about the wisdom! :)
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Great work on his part for sure. That just cannot be done in the "Group Shooting Venues", by one person. If it can be done by all means I am ALL ears! Be well, shoot well.... Jan
 
Gary ...

Gary Walters said:
The Tomball Gun Club has a VFS & HTR match scheduled for July 17 & 18th. 100 & 200 yard will be shot both days. Come on over and shoot with us.

To me a match is a weekend of shooting. I can understand why you guys only charge $10.00. You have only one yardage and the match starts at 1:00 P.M.

Hope to see you in July.

GW
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I'm driving over from Austin to shoot with you guys on Sunday. I'll see you late Saturday afternoon 6 February! Art :)
 
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