Match fees ... Are they too high?

"..would lesser daily entry fees encourage more shooters to participate? Your opinions please."

You are without question right, and it would encourage lots more to shoot.

In fact, as you present the costs incurred, perhaps you should consider hosting a few matches yourself. You could charge perhaps $5-6 each, get lots of new shooters and make a killing!
 
wncchester ...

wncchester said:
"..would lesser daily entry fees encourage more shooters to participate? Your opinions please."

You are without question right, and it would encourage lots more to shoot.

In fact, as you present the costs incurred, perhaps you should consider hosting a few matches yourself. You could charge perhaps $5-6 each, get lots of new shooters and make a killing!
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The Austin Rifle Club has 1500 Members! We really don't need anymore. Each pays $100 a year to enjoy any one of 12 ranges. Income from membership brings in $150,000 annually. Other income is generated from a variety of sources. There's approximately $400,000 sitting in the club's coffers [the killing has been made and continues]. We have a Board of Directors and 12 Director positions, all manned on a volunteer basis. Six new ranges were recently built to accommodate the pistol shooting crowd. The first Saturday of every month is dedicated to maintenance and cleanup. All volunteer labor. Our Hunter and Varmint for Score matches charge members and guests just $5 for club matches and $10 for Registered matches. All the bills are being paid and the money is piling up. We're doing just well, thank you. Here's our site: http://austinrifleclub.org/. :D
 
abintx said:
The Austin Rifle Club has 1500 Members! We really don't need anymore. Each pays $100 a year to enjoy any one of 12 ranges. Income from membership brings in $150,000 annually. Other income is generated from a variety of sources. There's approximately $400,000 sitting in the club's coffers [the killing has been made and continues]. We have a Board of Directors and 12 Director positions, all manned on a volunteer basis. Six new ranges were recently built to accommodate the pistol shooting crowd. The first Saturday of every month is dedicated to maintenance and cleanup. All volunteer labor. Our Hunter and Varmint for Score matches charge members and guests just $5 for club matches and $10 for Registered matches. All the bills are being paid and the money is piling up. We're doing just well, thank you. Here's our site: http://austinrifleclub.org/. :D
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Sure is a nice looking range. The range I am a member at cost $120/year and isn't nearly as nicely laid out as yours seems to be. Our 100/200 yard ranges is lacking at best, they could replace the wooden benches with concrete and add about four more, there is room, also there is room to add a 300 yard target line as well. I know I'm bitching but, it's overcast, cold, and we are supposed to have snow flurries as well, go figure this is East Tennessee. I do have to say we are getting a new and improved club house, we have a nice 1000 yard range, the skeet and trap ranges are well appointed as is the action pistol range.

Are match fees getting out of hand? I guess it depends on which side of the fence you are sitting on. I drive 26 miles each way and pay $60 to shoot two guns at 600 yards for a one day shoot, and I have to take my turn in the target pit when not shooting. I also drive 300 miles round trip more or less, pay $30 to shoot two yardages also a one day event, but I also get feed and don't have to change targets. It would be nice if the fees where a little lower, but they are what they are and I am willing to pay to play. If you consider the cost of travel, lodging, eating, etc., the cost per day is realitively inexpencive

Dan Honert;)
 
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There is a vast difference between a small club holding registered NBRSA matchs (not club shoots) and a club of 1,500 members and nearly a half million in the bank. Take a small club that has one or two benchrest shooters that want to host a match, tie up the range for 3-4 days and then don't show a respectable return on their time/effort/money and see what happens when the pistol shooters, the trap and skeet shooters gather at the next board meeting.

I have no members at Rachel's Glen, no board of directors, no volunteer workers.......just me.

I still think that many of you think of a registered match as a glorified club shoot. The only resemblance is that both entail rifle shooting.
 
BR Shoot Costs

I ran Registerd Shoots at San Gabriel for 11 years from 1995 till 2006. Beore 1995 we had Club Shoots at San Gabriel. Club shoots were fine as long as the attendance paid the bills. When I started for the second time at San Gabriel in 1993 Club Shoots cost $15 for a days shooting, 2 aggs. After the Club fees were paid, trophies, and range help not much was left. In 1995 when Jim Kent retired from the Club he handed running the Shoots over to me. I didn't expect to have this responsibility but it became obvious nobody else wanted it.

To shorten this story up the first six months of Club shoots drained our trophy supply to nothing. Trying to take out money from each Shoot to buy more trophies didn't work not enough shooters. Never considered running a Shoot with no trophies or giving county fair ribbons or hat pins. I have always given out 1,2,3 agg plaques, small groups, and 2 gun plaques. Most of our Shooters were retiring from shooting at that time and no new ones were replacing them. About mid year we were out of trophies and my score keeper/club advisor informed me we had enough trophies for one more Shoot. I was a regular NBRSA Shooter then shooting Visalia and Phoenix Shoots. Lou Murdica was Director at that time. Lou told me he had shot at San Gabriel before during the Club Shoot time and wanted to come shoot with us again. I told Lou of our situation that we might be out of business after the next Shoot. Lou asked me to consider Registering the San Gabriel Shoots he even offered to sponsor the first 2 shoots to get us going again. I said I would try it. We went from 7 shooter Shoots to 20+ as soon as we registered our Shoots. Thanks to Lou for the help. We made money on every Shoot after we started Registering, not allot but enough to pay all the expenses for each shoot. We started charging $20/day 2 aggs in 1995 till 2000 $25 till 2004 and $30 from 2004 till we closed in 2006.

By 2002 we were making enough extra that I started saving $100 from each Shoot to have a Merchandise Shoot in November each year. I took this roughly $1000 and bought merchandise to give back to the shooters as gratitude for attending our shoots. Shooters donated merchandise and I recieved donations from manufacturers. Our second year of the Merchandise Shoot I estimated we gave away $7000 of merchandise, gift certificates, and money donations. Our regular attendance during the year was 25, for the Merchandise Shoots they were 30+ with one year we had 47 our highest attendance ever for a San Gabriel shoot.

To me most every Shoot that makes a profit should have some way for paying back the shooters each year for their attending the Shoots. San Gabriel's way was to give back in the form of a Mercandise Shoot. Other Ranges could do things like lowering fees for a year end Shoot say a half price Shoot or a money shoot.

The fees now are $50, shooters can afford it. Compare that fee to a days entertainment elsewhere. The cost of putting on a Shoot goes up when you consider cost of targets, trophies, and help. On the subject of help I had 1 target kid I paid $100/day the last couple years, $80/day the first 8 years. My Range Officer/target measurer never wanted to be paid, and I worked for free.

We had 2 BR Schools 2004 and 2006 we charged $35 per student. We didn't expect to make a profit from either and sure enough we didn't. The BR Schools were put on to attract new shooters and share knowledge that our many experienced shooters were willing to give out. I could have charged $50a head but I didn't want to keep some away.

When we open Angeles BR we will start at $35 a day. At Angeles we will have a few more expense than at San Gabriel. One will be buying an Insurance plan for our shoots. We didn't have to pay this at San Gabriel as the Club put us under their insurance. Also we will have to buy our targets at Angeles where at San Gabriel the club bought them. So we will start at $35/day. Still plan on taking money out from each Shoot for a November Merchandise Shoot.

To sum all this up $50 seems steep to some but BR is not a Sport where you buy the equipment and expect to shoot for $10. What some don't realize having a place to shoot Registered means allot to many Shooters. Not all Clubs are charging $50/day look around. NBRSA shoots do not require you to buy a Club membership for each Range you shoot at. Those that claim $10 and $15 Shoots belong to those Clubs having already paid the Club membership.

That's all I gotta say.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Four step plan

1.-Increase entry fees
2.-Pay back to the shooters (see #1)
3.-More profitable for the range/club (see #1)
4.-A reasonable profit encourages continued matches for clubs (see #1)

And what would be wrong with the match directors getting a slice of the pie for themselves? They donate days of their time and work hard to make sure these tournaments continue....but they're supposed to do it for nothing? That's how people burn out on doing this stuff.

Face it, BR is stuck in a '50's and '60's mindset when it comes to this aspect of our sport. And we wonder why the sport isn't progressing? :rolleyes: We're only a half century out of synch......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe the way of the future in BR is more 'big' shoots....bigger entry fees, bigger paybacks, more profit for the club/range?
 
Just out of intrest

How many of the wyners actually thank the guy who ran the match & the scorer and anyone else who put in?I drive half way accross a big country to shoot and always allow $50/class whats the biggy either you want to play or you dont how many help with the frames and backers and how many finish shooting pack up and bolt?Get over it $50 a class in no biggy in the real world when you sit and shoot and targets backers etc. magically appear before you at least 10 times.
just my take on it but who cares
jim
 
Ditto Jim.
Some of these people, can't even wait around, to get their prize. :mad:
Maybe the next guy in line would like it. :eek:
 
Al Nyhus said:
1.-Increase entry fees
2.-Pay back to the shooters (see #1)
3.-More profitable for the range/club (see #1)
4.-A reasonable profit encourages continued matches for clubs (see #1)

And what would be wrong with the match directors getting a slice of the pie for themselves? They donate days of their time and work hard to make sure these tournaments continue....but they're supposed to do it for nothing? That's how people burn out on doing this stuff.

Face it, BR is stuck in a '50's and '60's mindset when it comes to this aspect of our sport. And we wonder why the sport isn't progressing? :rolleyes: We're only a half century out of synch......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe the way of the future in BR is more 'big' shoots....bigger entry fees, bigger paybacks, more profit for the club/range?
Click to expand...

Al,

Allow me to butt in here and give you my opinions on higher fees.

1. There is nothing wrong with profit as long as it is in a reasonable range.

2. I don't shoot for the money. It is a hobby and a sport. I shoot for the fun of it. I don't need to take home some of my friends money home to make me feel like I have won.

3. There needs to be enough of a fee so that the club does not lose on the shoot and even makes enough to pay for improvements. You will lose even the most avid shooters when they know that the shoot is not being run efficiently and they are being charged too much.

4. The match director who is not it this for the enjoyment and the fellowship should step aside and let someone who is younger at heart do the job.

5. I would rather drive 100 miles for a $20 shoot and return home with eighty bucks in my pocket than drive 100 miles and spend $100 to boot.

Concho Bill
 
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Truth be told

I competed at the Winds of Manatee match this past weekend. It was a GREAT match extremely well run and a lot of fun in spite of cold wet weather. Since this topic of fees for a match has come up I feel I should report a conversation I overheard when I was standing outside of the scoring trailer between the guys who ran Manatee match.

Art Kelly and Buddy Ross were discussing what they might do with their share of the profit from the match. They both were interested in buying a new car. Buddy was considering a sports car like a Corvette or a Shelby Mustang. Art was interested in a new Mini Van that would get better mileage around town than his big van that he uses to pull his trailer. Larry Costa, after figuring the profit from the match, said he would take both of them to Wal-Mart and pay for the two Match-Box die cast models since he didn't think the profit would cover both $3.00 cars. Isn't it nice to have a problem solver around when you need one????
 
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