I always shoot two rifles. This is easy when I shoot at someone else's range, but makes things kind of busy when I'm running the match too
Shooting two rifles makes for about 200 shots including sighters. That's usually enough for most people.
Rick
Is benchrest dying?
- Thread starter 82boy
- Start date
I always shoot two rifles. This is easy when I shoot at someone else's range, but makes things kind of busy when I'm running the match too
Shooting two rifles makes for about 200 shots including sighters. That's usually enough for most people.
Rick
Cost is a big deal
A lot of people who shoot BR don't fully realize the cost. I mentioned a while back to Todd Tyler that it cost me 5 large bills to shoot a match in Raton. He seemed a bit surprised, but when I added it up, he said "well I guess it does". Here is a new calculation that will give you an idea of what it cost. I realize that for someone who wants to drive an old vehicle, eat sandwiches, and leave the wife at home, it would save a bit. I will be figuring my new truck at $20,000 per 100,000 miles for the vehicle alone. This does not include gas, tires, insurance, or any vehicle maintenance.
800 miles at 20 cents per mile = $160
800 miles at 20 miles per gallon and $3.60 per gallon = $144
3 nights at a cheap motel = $150
Eating out 3 nights = $150
Match fees = $100 - $125
Bullets, powder, primers = $120
Total = $824 - $849
This does not include any other BR expenses like barrel, new scopes, and gunsmithing cost. Some may argue this cost by saying that the truck is already paid for, but if that's the way they look at it, then it cost $36,000 to drive the truck home from the dealer. I could spend less on food of course, but with the way I've been shooting, if I didn't treat myself at all with good food, I wouldn't bother to show up at all.
Just spent $900 on a borescope. Now I will skip the Rattlesnake in Raton, and replace it with Albuquerque match. I told Ed Adams that I would give support to that match, even if it meant not going to another match.
Michael
A lot of people who shoot BR don't fully realize the cost. I mentioned a while back to Todd Tyler that it cost me 5 large bills to shoot a match in Raton. He seemed a bit surprised, but when I added it up, he said "well I guess it does". Here is a new calculation that will give you an idea of what it cost. I realize that for someone who wants to drive an old vehicle, eat sandwiches, and leave the wife at home, it would save a bit. I will be figuring my new truck at $20,000 per 100,000 miles for the vehicle alone. This does not include gas, tires, insurance, or any vehicle maintenance.
800 miles at 20 cents per mile = $160
800 miles at 20 miles per gallon and $3.60 per gallon = $144
3 nights at a cheap motel = $150
Eating out 3 nights = $150
Match fees = $100 - $125
Bullets, powder, primers = $120
Total = $824 - $849
This does not include any other BR expenses like barrel, new scopes, and gunsmithing cost. Some may argue this cost by saying that the truck is already paid for, but if that's the way they look at it, then it cost $36,000 to drive the truck home from the dealer. I could spend less on food of course, but with the way I've been shooting, if I didn't treat myself at all with good food, I wouldn't bother to show up at all.
Just spent $900 on a borescope. Now I will skip the Rattlesnake in Raton, and replace it with Albuquerque match. I told Ed Adams that I would give support to that match, even if it meant not going to another match.
Michael
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Something to ponder
Walt Fafata of US Products just sent me two editions of Precision Shooting magazine, April 1959 and May 1959. (US Products is the makers of JB Compound, Rem Clean, various grades of Al oxide lapping compounds used by barrel makers and some other shooting/accuracy related products). The more I read of the old publications pertaining to benchrest the more I think one reason for declining interest in extreme accuracy is todays benchrest is more about "monkey-see-monkey-do" than innovation. All the articles were from shooters and all were related to innovations they had developed or tried.
For example, Paul Gottshall has an article and a sketch of a case neck reaming tool he developed to clean up the insides of case necks. Paul Gottshall?? He's one of the early benchrest shooters who George Kelbly quotes regularly about major developments of that time in benchrest evolution.
There is an article about early gun writer Robert Hutton of Hutton Rifle Ranch. Remember the Powley Ballistic Computer?
Has all the good stuff already been developed or invented and are we just copying what TB won with last match??
And, hey, in 1959 Precision Shooting was an NBRSA publication!!
Walt Fafata of US Products just sent me two editions of Precision Shooting magazine, April 1959 and May 1959. (US Products is the makers of JB Compound, Rem Clean, various grades of Al oxide lapping compounds used by barrel makers and some other shooting/accuracy related products). The more I read of the old publications pertaining to benchrest the more I think one reason for declining interest in extreme accuracy is todays benchrest is more about "monkey-see-monkey-do" than innovation. All the articles were from shooters and all were related to innovations they had developed or tried.
For example, Paul Gottshall has an article and a sketch of a case neck reaming tool he developed to clean up the insides of case necks. Paul Gottshall?? He's one of the early benchrest shooters who George Kelbly quotes regularly about major developments of that time in benchrest evolution.
There is an article about early gun writer Robert Hutton of Hutton Rifle Ranch. Remember the Powley Ballistic Computer?
Has all the good stuff already been developed or invented and are we just copying what TB won with last match??
And, hey, in 1959 Precision Shooting was an NBRSA publication!!
B J Atkinson
Member
I started serious benchrest shooting way back in 1976, when we all used .222's and the occasional 6 x 47.
Having organised and run five National Championships and a couple of Supershoots, I could put forward a few suggestions on this topic.
Every club seems to have a "sparkplug" who organises things and generally keeps the show going. Sometimes they stay around for many years. However, we are all getting older, and when the time comes for others to pick up the reins, there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm to do so. I have seen the decline of a number of benchrest clubs for this very reason. It is true that a great many shooters just want to front up, pay their money, and shoot...and that is their right, of course. Unfortunately, someone has to do the organising, arrange target crews, scorers, etc etc etc. Usually it is done by volunteers, but like I said we are all getting older and lugging target frames around is starting to get beyond some of us.
So, if you are at a club that seems to be dying out, have a good look and in the words of a famous President, "ask what you can do for your club, not what can your club do for you".
It is a lot easier (and cheaper!) to drive to your local club and compete than to have to go Interstate.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Brendan Atkinson
Having organised and run five National Championships and a couple of Supershoots, I could put forward a few suggestions on this topic.
Every club seems to have a "sparkplug" who organises things and generally keeps the show going. Sometimes they stay around for many years. However, we are all getting older, and when the time comes for others to pick up the reins, there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm to do so. I have seen the decline of a number of benchrest clubs for this very reason. It is true that a great many shooters just want to front up, pay their money, and shoot...and that is their right, of course. Unfortunately, someone has to do the organising, arrange target crews, scorers, etc etc etc. Usually it is done by volunteers, but like I said we are all getting older and lugging target frames around is starting to get beyond some of us.
So, if you are at a club that seems to be dying out, have a good look and in the words of a famous President, "ask what you can do for your club, not what can your club do for you".
It is a lot easier (and cheaper!) to drive to your local club and compete than to have to go Interstate.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Brendan Atkinson
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B
BobZ
Guest
Bench Rest Postal.
Everyone knows that postal competition is not a level playing field as the wind is major factor and not the same at any match. I am 76 years old and have been a competition shooter in most every discipline except scatter gun. Hooked on shooting while in the TEXAS National Guard in the 50's Recently I got serious about Bench again after competing in BR50 until the founder died.
I found air rifles 22 years ago and came to the quick decision that a minute of angle is a minute of angle at 25 yards or 300 yards. That target difficulty is basically the same when the ten ring is 2mm at 25 meters. Just as much fun and no smoke and recoil. Though the equipment for a competitive rifle and scope is 3,000.00 dollars or so, the cost per shot savings on 5000 rounds vs rim fire match ammo will buy you a very competitive rifle every couple of years on ammo savings. Good pellets are around 90.00 for 5000 vs 1700.00 for match grade rim fire if you can find it.
My club in Pearland Texas has been NRA club of the year this year and in past years. We have 3000 plus members. A very nice bench rest range with about 18 concrete benches and no bench rest competition except on our dedicated air rifle bench rest range with 5 nice benches. We shoot shoulder to shoulder with min. of 2 shooters and up to six now with high dollar rigs. A couple of us shoot 3 or 4 days a week and we turn in our scores to USARBR. With several 15 target matches over two seasons in 4 or 5 classes the best 9 count for final score. This allows for throw outs based on wind conditions. We have grown from 1 shooter to 6 in less than a year. Bunch of clubs in the US and around the world. There is a production class at about 600.00 max cost for rifle scope and rings. It takes two shooters to start the postal matches and you will be surprised on how fast new shooters can be found.
My goal is a state match with two relays of airguns on 18 benches in 3 years. If you would like info on our great game give me a call 713 680 1329.
We use air from a scuba tank to create pressure behind the projectile, where the rest of the shooters burn powder to create gas and pressure. Your are shooting an airgun (gas gun )now!
I would like to travel across town to Tombal, if we had a way to set up some 25 yard or meter targets. http://www.usairriflebenchrest.com/
Though I am as serious a competitor as you will find, it is only about beating my last best score and then the perfect target.
Everyone knows that postal competition is not a level playing field as the wind is major factor and not the same at any match. I am 76 years old and have been a competition shooter in most every discipline except scatter gun. Hooked on shooting while in the TEXAS National Guard in the 50's Recently I got serious about Bench again after competing in BR50 until the founder died.
I found air rifles 22 years ago and came to the quick decision that a minute of angle is a minute of angle at 25 yards or 300 yards. That target difficulty is basically the same when the ten ring is 2mm at 25 meters. Just as much fun and no smoke and recoil. Though the equipment for a competitive rifle and scope is 3,000.00 dollars or so, the cost per shot savings on 5000 rounds vs rim fire match ammo will buy you a very competitive rifle every couple of years on ammo savings. Good pellets are around 90.00 for 5000 vs 1700.00 for match grade rim fire if you can find it.
My club in Pearland Texas has been NRA club of the year this year and in past years. We have 3000 plus members. A very nice bench rest range with about 18 concrete benches and no bench rest competition except on our dedicated air rifle bench rest range with 5 nice benches. We shoot shoulder to shoulder with min. of 2 shooters and up to six now with high dollar rigs. A couple of us shoot 3 or 4 days a week and we turn in our scores to USARBR. With several 15 target matches over two seasons in 4 or 5 classes the best 9 count for final score. This allows for throw outs based on wind conditions. We have grown from 1 shooter to 6 in less than a year. Bunch of clubs in the US and around the world. There is a production class at about 600.00 max cost for rifle scope and rings. It takes two shooters to start the postal matches and you will be surprised on how fast new shooters can be found.
My goal is a state match with two relays of airguns on 18 benches in 3 years. If you would like info on our great game give me a call 713 680 1329.
We use air from a scuba tank to create pressure behind the projectile, where the rest of the shooters burn powder to create gas and pressure. Your are shooting an airgun (gas gun )now!
I would like to travel across town to Tombal, if we had a way to set up some 25 yard or meter targets. http://www.usairriflebenchrest.com/
Though I am as serious a competitor as you will find, it is only about beating my last best score and then the perfect target.
W
williev18
Guest
Why I left
As a 30 something man with 2 young sons, I agree with one of the posts that this is a retired mans sport. Yes the economy and the shortage of components isn't helping the sport. However I don't believe its that younger shooters cant afford the sport. Many guys my age spend entire incomes on car racing and snowmachines. As a younger family man there are other, larger costs to the sport. To stay competitive you must shoot, and shoot often. Unless you are blessed with a home range, and or a wife that is a shooter also, this means time away from the family. Im sure all the married men on here can testify that time away from home can sometimes be harder to save up than money. For me this spring when my rifle needed a new barrel, I saved up for months to buy a fresh tube. when it arrived I spent 3 months to try to find tune, that just wasn't there. I couldn't sell the cost of a second barrel to the wife, and the sport was over for me. The final nail in the coffin was when a mother of a deal came up on a decent fishing boat. Just the sale of my 2 weaver t-36's was able to cover the cost. The bonus is that the entire family can spend a week end together and mama is much happier.
I fully plan on returning to the sport some day when free time and expendable income is a little easier to come by, and will be watching the classifieds for a good used rig to slowly fix up until the time is right. How ever for now family politics make it hard to play, and I cant justify spending an entire tax return on components each year, when I cant shoot enough to stay competitive with out adding the exspense of a divorce.
As a 30 something man with 2 young sons, I agree with one of the posts that this is a retired mans sport. Yes the economy and the shortage of components isn't helping the sport. However I don't believe its that younger shooters cant afford the sport. Many guys my age spend entire incomes on car racing and snowmachines. As a younger family man there are other, larger costs to the sport. To stay competitive you must shoot, and shoot often. Unless you are blessed with a home range, and or a wife that is a shooter also, this means time away from the family. Im sure all the married men on here can testify that time away from home can sometimes be harder to save up than money. For me this spring when my rifle needed a new barrel, I saved up for months to buy a fresh tube. when it arrived I spent 3 months to try to find tune, that just wasn't there. I couldn't sell the cost of a second barrel to the wife, and the sport was over for me. The final nail in the coffin was when a mother of a deal came up on a decent fishing boat. Just the sale of my 2 weaver t-36's was able to cover the cost. The bonus is that the entire family can spend a week end together and mama is much happier.
I fully plan on returning to the sport some day when free time and expendable income is a little easier to come by, and will be watching the classifieds for a good used rig to slowly fix up until the time is right. How ever for now family politics make it hard to play, and I cant justify spending an entire tax return on components each year, when I cant shoot enough to stay competitive with out adding the exspense of a divorce.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Thinking deeper
Thinking deeper into this subject some things pop out;
1) We may get an indication of the future of the sport in the next two months by looking at the turnout of the IBS and NBRSA Varmint Group Nationals. If the
attendance to BOTH of these is down significantly may be a sign that, at least for the short term, the sport is losing competitors.
2) True, some component prices, bullet jackets, powder, ect., keep rising this will definitely effect some shooters ability to afford this sport. Some of these price increases are related to
increasing raw material costs, some of it to the recent panic by the general public to "get theirs before it all gets gone", and some of these extreme price
increases may be due to supplier price gouging.
An example of possible price gouging, primers, two years ago Federal 205 GM primers were about $20/K. I looked on one of our bigger component suppliers site
last week and the same primers were $65/K. I'm sure the individual components to make primers have not risen that much, Yes, price gouging by our suppliers could actually kill this
sport as many shooters will use 5-10K primers each season. Traditional hunters and such will not be effected by this type gouging since many recreational loaders may not use 100
primers in a single season.
3) The general economy will effect our sport since this sport is optional to many. Guys and gals may take up a competitive sport that better fits their recreational budget.
4) What most posters in this thread are talking about group benchrest. I, myself, can name a dozen or so shooters who went from group to score partially because most score matches
are one day affairs where most group matches are at least two day affairs.
Thinking deeper into this subject some things pop out;
1) We may get an indication of the future of the sport in the next two months by looking at the turnout of the IBS and NBRSA Varmint Group Nationals. If the
attendance to BOTH of these is down significantly may be a sign that, at least for the short term, the sport is losing competitors.
2) True, some component prices, bullet jackets, powder, ect., keep rising this will definitely effect some shooters ability to afford this sport. Some of these price increases are related to
increasing raw material costs, some of it to the recent panic by the general public to "get theirs before it all gets gone", and some of these extreme price
increases may be due to supplier price gouging.
An example of possible price gouging, primers, two years ago Federal 205 GM primers were about $20/K. I looked on one of our bigger component suppliers site
last week and the same primers were $65/K. I'm sure the individual components to make primers have not risen that much, Yes, price gouging by our suppliers could actually kill this
sport as many shooters will use 5-10K primers each season. Traditional hunters and such will not be effected by this type gouging since many recreational loaders may not use 100
primers in a single season.
3) The general economy will effect our sport since this sport is optional to many. Guys and gals may take up a competitive sport that better fits their recreational budget.
4) What most posters in this thread are talking about group benchrest. I, myself, can name a dozen or so shooters who went from group to score partially because most score matches
are one day affairs where most group matches are at least two day affairs.
M
MarkR
Guest
There are probably many many reasons that BR shooting is not currently growing, maybe even declining. I'll list a few of my thoughts here and even though I will number them, the number will not necessarily indicate rank of importance.
1. Continually rising costs of everything from gas to guns. Includes operating cost of vehicles and miles that must be traveled to get to and from competitions.
2. Lack of reasonabe availibility of components (includes wait times) such as barrels, brass, stocks, bullets, powder, PRIMERS, and on and on.
3. Time away from family during long trips to shoot.
4. BR is not a sport that is fun to watch (for most anyway) and the need to have a bajillion power spotting scope to watch a bullet either land in or out of the group......or on/off the dot.
5 Infighting between differing shooting organizations......to include intentional doubling with other organizations to compete for match dates.
6. Little excitement (aimed at younger shooters) in either participation or viewing.....in other words, no clay targets breaking, no steel plates dinging, no bad guys turning to be fired at....etc.
7. Little if any reward for good performance....unless you like certificates, wall plaques, cheap trophies and stickers to go on your shooting equipment.
8. Lack of recognition by the NRA (includes automatic publicity in their publications with recognition for winning and high placement.
9. Did I mention lack of significant reward for good performance other than an atta boy from your peers?
10. Marketing ploys and manipulation of the market by manufacturers....example: copper prices going down, but bullet prices going up. Non-availability of bullet jackets for custom bullet makers.
11. Negative press and political unrest about guns and their future availibility. This really doesn't include those of us that already shoot competition, but it does have an effect on the people that we have to draw from for new and future shooters.
The list could go on and on, but thats enough for a start.
Mark
1. Continually rising costs of everything from gas to guns. Includes operating cost of vehicles and miles that must be traveled to get to and from competitions.
2. Lack of reasonabe availibility of components (includes wait times) such as barrels, brass, stocks, bullets, powder, PRIMERS, and on and on.
3. Time away from family during long trips to shoot.
4. BR is not a sport that is fun to watch (for most anyway) and the need to have a bajillion power spotting scope to watch a bullet either land in or out of the group......or on/off the dot.
5 Infighting between differing shooting organizations......to include intentional doubling with other organizations to compete for match dates.
6. Little excitement (aimed at younger shooters) in either participation or viewing.....in other words, no clay targets breaking, no steel plates dinging, no bad guys turning to be fired at....etc.
7. Little if any reward for good performance....unless you like certificates, wall plaques, cheap trophies and stickers to go on your shooting equipment.
8. Lack of recognition by the NRA (includes automatic publicity in their publications with recognition for winning and high placement.
9. Did I mention lack of significant reward for good performance other than an atta boy from your peers?
10. Marketing ploys and manipulation of the market by manufacturers....example: copper prices going down, but bullet prices going up. Non-availability of bullet jackets for custom bullet makers.
11. Negative press and political unrest about guns and their future availibility. This really doesn't include those of us that already shoot competition, but it does have an effect on the people that we have to draw from for new and future shooters.
The list could go on and on, but thats enough for a start.
Mark
SWASHBUCKLER1
New member
Is Bench Rest Dying ? No in my opinion
I will try to give you my personal opinion based on my own assumptions.
#1. Bench Rest is very expensive, But so is allmost any and all forms of extreme hobbies. So I do not believe Bench Rest is out of the ordinary.
#2. Components wait time is longer than some cases, but for me it is a understanding of custom components that are made to extreme tollerances and cannot be produced in a today's feverish state of demand, but well worth the wait for the quality we demand.
#3. Time away from family should not be an issue, as I have seen a lot of families participate in the sport and the matches I have attended welcome all participates and family.
#4. BR Was never intended to be a spectator sport, but is very spectator friendly if you are wanting to follow your favorite shooter as well as root him/her on
#5. Organizations? This is a tuff one because from where I have been the organization only does as the organization suggests, and the shooters/members are the organization.
#6. Excitement, ? Where do you start with this, if you have been to a match and are interested there is a ton of excitement if you have someone shooting or know the shooters.
#7. Reward? For me the reward is to shoot the very best group possible in the conditions available against the best shooters in the world, and if possible I'm able to shoot the best my reward is to know, that given day I was on top of my game, my equipment, etc.
#8. Lack of recognition, this is a tuff one, as I've never been one to want to be recognized for doing what I love to do, for me it's personal satisfaction and shooting the very best I can.
#9. Peers, this is a tuff one, because from where I come from, you are thought of as to what you have done to help society, friends and family, so I cannot include my hobbies into this group, for me Bench Rest shooting is truly personal.
#10. The Market, yes the market has an effect on Bench Rest as it does on all fascits of life, but just like gold prospecting true believers do not let the markets dictate what they do, nor should the bench rest community.
#11. Negative press! This is a good one, Bench Rest is so small and specific! when have we ever been ridiculed for the thought of shooting bench Rest, the people that participate in this sport are considered to be the most precision shooters and people ever in the shooting sport, and this should be taken seriously as we have such as high standard of respect for the equipment and fellow shooter, we should be able to build on this and pass this tradition on to the next person.
* Mark, sorry I used your post, an my answering grounds but you laid out the foundation nicely and I could not help myself.
I have my own personal ideas, and I'm sure they are different from yours, that's what make Bench Rest so special. In my opinion Bench Rest is so unique we cannot include it in the standard of everyday hobbies, sports or any other group, it should truly stand on it's own. Like I said I'm sorry I used your layout to express my opinion but it helped me express my own personal thoughts, so thank you for that. We have never met, but I hope to shoot Bench Rest beside you someday so we can compete against each other as well as ourselves. Bench Rest is not dying, just evolving and we should grasp every thing it has taught us, because this is truly the sport of marksmanship and in my opinion there is nothing else like it in the world and it would be a shame to let it expire.
I have a lot more thoughts on the sport of Bench Rest I could share and could, but I do not want to bore the readers, so thank you for the opportunity, and long live Bench Rest Shooting.
Thank you Wilbur for giving us this venue to share our thoughts. I appreciate it.
I will try to give you my personal opinion based on my own assumptions.
#1. Bench Rest is very expensive, But so is allmost any and all forms of extreme hobbies. So I do not believe Bench Rest is out of the ordinary.
#2. Components wait time is longer than some cases, but for me it is a understanding of custom components that are made to extreme tollerances and cannot be produced in a today's feverish state of demand, but well worth the wait for the quality we demand.
#3. Time away from family should not be an issue, as I have seen a lot of families participate in the sport and the matches I have attended welcome all participates and family.
#4. BR Was never intended to be a spectator sport, but is very spectator friendly if you are wanting to follow your favorite shooter as well as root him/her on
#5. Organizations? This is a tuff one because from where I have been the organization only does as the organization suggests, and the shooters/members are the organization.
#6. Excitement, ? Where do you start with this, if you have been to a match and are interested there is a ton of excitement if you have someone shooting or know the shooters.
#7. Reward? For me the reward is to shoot the very best group possible in the conditions available against the best shooters in the world, and if possible I'm able to shoot the best my reward is to know, that given day I was on top of my game, my equipment, etc.
#8. Lack of recognition, this is a tuff one, as I've never been one to want to be recognized for doing what I love to do, for me it's personal satisfaction and shooting the very best I can.
#9. Peers, this is a tuff one, because from where I come from, you are thought of as to what you have done to help society, friends and family, so I cannot include my hobbies into this group, for me Bench Rest shooting is truly personal.
#10. The Market, yes the market has an effect on Bench Rest as it does on all fascits of life, but just like gold prospecting true believers do not let the markets dictate what they do, nor should the bench rest community.
#11. Negative press! This is a good one, Bench Rest is so small and specific! when have we ever been ridiculed for the thought of shooting bench Rest, the people that participate in this sport are considered to be the most precision shooters and people ever in the shooting sport, and this should be taken seriously as we have such as high standard of respect for the equipment and fellow shooter, we should be able to build on this and pass this tradition on to the next person.
* Mark, sorry I used your post, an my answering grounds but you laid out the foundation nicely and I could not help myself.
I have my own personal ideas, and I'm sure they are different from yours, that's what make Bench Rest so special. In my opinion Bench Rest is so unique we cannot include it in the standard of everyday hobbies, sports or any other group, it should truly stand on it's own. Like I said I'm sorry I used your layout to express my opinion but it helped me express my own personal thoughts, so thank you for that. We have never met, but I hope to shoot Bench Rest beside you someday so we can compete against each other as well as ourselves. Bench Rest is not dying, just evolving and we should grasp every thing it has taught us, because this is truly the sport of marksmanship and in my opinion there is nothing else like it in the world and it would be a shame to let it expire.
I have a lot more thoughts on the sport of Bench Rest I could share and could, but I do not want to bore the readers, so thank you for the opportunity, and long live Bench Rest Shooting.
Thank you Wilbur for giving us this venue to share our thoughts. I appreciate it.
M
MarkR
Guest
Swashbuckler1, All of these are not necessarity "my" views, rather, to try to see from the eyes of the people that we have to draw from to keep renewing our sport.
Shooting sports have evolved into something much different than it was in the 40's 50's 60's 70's and 80's. Although many of the games inside of the "shooting sports" are much like if not exactly like they were back then. All I'm saying is that the younger generations (in my view) are looking to kinda keep the tradition alive but also to introduce a little more "fun" into it. After all the younger generations have trouble accomplishing anything or even attempting to do something without a Joy stick and a monitor.
I believe that if we don't use a little foresight and maybe even think outside the box when trying to grow the sport that the base of people to draw from......will get dramatically smaller. In my area (within a 250 mile radius) group shooting is all but non existant now, and I really enjoy group shooting. However, score shooting, which was less popular if even available several years ago is now all that is available in my area, soooooooooooo, I shoot almost all score now.
As much as I don't care to use the word evolution.........the shooting sports are having growing pains and thus need to continue to evolve into something that will bring in more competitors.
Although dialogue like our may be boring to some and certainly not in agreement to their own thoughts, hopefully the thinking caps will be put on and everyone will start to allow the sport to evolve a little, into something that more people might enjoy. Easier said than done though.
Shooting sports have evolved into something much different than it was in the 40's 50's 60's 70's and 80's. Although many of the games inside of the "shooting sports" are much like if not exactly like they were back then. All I'm saying is that the younger generations (in my view) are looking to kinda keep the tradition alive but also to introduce a little more "fun" into it. After all the younger generations have trouble accomplishing anything or even attempting to do something without a Joy stick and a monitor.
I believe that if we don't use a little foresight and maybe even think outside the box when trying to grow the sport that the base of people to draw from......will get dramatically smaller. In my area (within a 250 mile radius) group shooting is all but non existant now, and I really enjoy group shooting. However, score shooting, which was less popular if even available several years ago is now all that is available in my area, soooooooooooo, I shoot almost all score now.
As much as I don't care to use the word evolution.........the shooting sports are having growing pains and thus need to continue to evolve into something that will bring in more competitors.
Although dialogue like our may be boring to some and certainly not in agreement to their own thoughts, hopefully the thinking caps will be put on and everyone will start to allow the sport to evolve a little, into something that more people might enjoy. Easier said than done though.
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SWASHBUCKLER1
New member
I'm not saying the sport cant grow, but there are some specialized sports that will never be main stream or for everyone, and I think bench rest is one of those, with that said I'm not saying we cant grow the sport, I'm just saying no matter how hard we try it will only get so big or to a certain level. 20 Years ago I had the same thoughts about it dying because of lack of participation but only limited ones are going to participate no matter what, it's not for everyone.
Bench Rest is hard work, takes dedication, personal commitment and the drive for perfection, and a lot of people are not willing to put in the effort for what it takes to compete. I've been associated with several forms of the shooting sports and each one has similar issues with reaching new shooters. Bench Rest in my opinion is so unique that no matter what, there is a limited # of shooters that will make the commitment no matter what. After recently coming back to Bench Rest, there are advancements in components that have really changed the sport, which I think are great for Bench Rest.
For me the sport has evolved, today there are more top quality components available to the avg Joe than ever, and this has made Bench Rest more competitive than ever.
I have thought about this a lot since it's been over 15 years since I attended my last match, but I would say even if you gave your neighbor, friend, etc a gun to compete with they would not shoot or continue to shoot for very long.
Bench Rest is a difficult sport, but that's one of the things that draws me to it, along with the fellowship, competition, and the ability to shoot the very best tuned rifle I can shoot.
I'm on board if anyone comes up with a solution and I want to see Bench Rest stay with us for a many years to come, I'm just not sure this is the sport for everyone.
Thanks for the discussion guys and maybe the question that should be asked or debated is not what can we do to make the sport better or attractive for everyone, but what can we do to make the sport better for the Bench Rest shooters that are shooting today.?
Thanks, have a great day.
Bench Rest is hard work, takes dedication, personal commitment and the drive for perfection, and a lot of people are not willing to put in the effort for what it takes to compete. I've been associated with several forms of the shooting sports and each one has similar issues with reaching new shooters. Bench Rest in my opinion is so unique that no matter what, there is a limited # of shooters that will make the commitment no matter what. After recently coming back to Bench Rest, there are advancements in components that have really changed the sport, which I think are great for Bench Rest.
For me the sport has evolved, today there are more top quality components available to the avg Joe than ever, and this has made Bench Rest more competitive than ever.
I have thought about this a lot since it's been over 15 years since I attended my last match, but I would say even if you gave your neighbor, friend, etc a gun to compete with they would not shoot or continue to shoot for very long.
Bench Rest is a difficult sport, but that's one of the things that draws me to it, along with the fellowship, competition, and the ability to shoot the very best tuned rifle I can shoot.
I'm on board if anyone comes up with a solution and I want to see Bench Rest stay with us for a many years to come, I'm just not sure this is the sport for everyone.
Thanks for the discussion guys and maybe the question that should be asked or debated is not what can we do to make the sport better or attractive for everyone, but what can we do to make the sport better for the Bench Rest shooters that are shooting today.?
Thanks, have a great day.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
No! As long as there are old men with access to guns and ammo there will always be some form of benchrest shooting going on, somewhere. I'm reminded of Jim Carmichel's answer to the question, “Why do you like Benchrest shooting?” His answer was, “It’s something an old guy can do.” As for attracting new shooters to the game, as long as young men keep getting old there will always be "new blood" to find its way to the bench.
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Roger T
Member
To go along with what mturner said, It's also a time issue (family). If your working 5-6 days a week 10-12hrs a day and going to the kids's "functions" there just isn't alot of time left, let alone not knowing till Fri AM if your working on Sat. to make plans to go . So it ends up being local in the early AM 7:00 (during the week) or so when we can get the group together to shoot. Only made 1 match at GRRC last year. (it is what it is though).
Roger T
Member
To go along with what mturner said, It's also a time issue (family). If your working 5-6 days a week 10-12hrs a day and going to the kids's "functions" there just isn't alot of time left, let alone not knowing till Fri AM if your working on Sat. to make plans to go . So it ends up being local in the early AM 7:00 (during the week) or so when we can get the group together to shoot. Only made 1 match at GRRC last year. (it is what it is though).
G
garrisone
Guest
Is it dying
In short yes!. No leadership !cost too much !To long in getting a rifle built -Components cost too much! and compaired to what you spend you don't get back much. Yes you have to want to shoot but you don't have to be stupid. maybe things will change! Maybe some of us will live to be a hundred ! Not. garrisone.
In short yes!. No leadership !cost too much !To long in getting a rifle built -Components cost too much! and compaired to what you spend you don't get back much. Yes you have to want to shoot but you don't have to be stupid. maybe things will change! Maybe some of us will live to be a hundred ! Not. garrisone.
T
tuna921
Guest
If you started today, How easy would it be to buy supplies ? Can you find brass,bullets and powder ? Wait 6 month's to a year for a barrel ? Most don't live near a range,look at the price of gas. Then you start reading forums and look at all the controversy posted. Someone asks a question and all hell beaks loose.Why would anyone want to be a match director,being told you don't score right and this that and the other thing. It's not like it is for money it's suppose to be fun.When the fun is gone what is the sense? A new shooter asks I have a 40X stock can I compete with you,that person is told oh no. Not a chance ! We need new and young shooters.
Jim
Jim
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jackie schmidt
New member
Jerry, I made a proposal over 10 years ago that we as an organization should have a centralized venue for the Nationals, I suggested the ST Louis venue.
For most of the shooters in the Country at this point in time, Fairchance PA might as well be on the moon.
We have our next club match at Tomball next week end. I will see how the attendance is, we have been getting quite a few More shooters for that than any NBRSA Registered Match in the Region.
I think the reason is it is less hassle, period. You come out, spend the morning shooting a aggregate, shoot the bull, and go home. The competition is just as fierce, you still have to hit that small dot a whole bunch of times to win anything.
I hope to get back into Region Shooting next year, but if our work load at my Shop stays as busy at it has been for the past three years, it's going to be tough.
When I was younger, driving all Friday night, shooting Saturday and Sunday, then driving all Sunday eavening to get back to work Monday morning was a lot easier. Truth is, it is not that much fun anymore being tired.
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JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Jackie, I could vote for St Louis, or I could vote for Kelblys as permanent 100//200 sites. St Louis has a great physical facility and is about the center of the greater BR world, Kelblys is the only one with all the features I like in the Super Shoot event. I've shot St Louis at least 6 times, NBRSA and IBS Varmint UL/HB Nationals and a IBS 600 Nationals and they have always run a great shoot.
But, moving the big shoots around gives other clubs a chance to show their stuff, however we do sometimes overtax the electrical capacity of some ranges. Fairchance is getting an electrical upgrade, I hope, we did burn the lines into not long ago.
We are getting soft I guess??
Consolidation and/or centralization probably will never happen, and I'd bet on that.
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
it is truly
Interesting how things come around almost full circle. 30+ years ago part of the scism that was involved in the split into the IBS and NBRSA was an attempt to create a centralized, permanent home for the Nationals. And now it is again being brought forward? Do we do it by population/ membership center? That would be somewhere in Illinois. Or do we do it by geographic center? That is somewhere around Salina, KS. I am not against either location, but I am close to both. I am sure that California's contingent would cry foul because they would have to travel further all the time. As would the N.E contingent. But since they don't want to travel more than 4 hours ever, Oh Well.
Interesting how things come around almost full circle. 30+ years ago part of the scism that was involved in the split into the IBS and NBRSA was an attempt to create a centralized, permanent home for the Nationals. And now it is again being brought forward? Do we do it by population/ membership center? That would be somewhere in Illinois. Or do we do it by geographic center? That is somewhere around Salina, KS. I am not against either location, but I am close to both. I am sure that California's contingent would cry foul because they would have to travel further all the time. As would the N.E contingent. But since they don't want to travel more than 4 hours ever, Oh Well.