Is benchrest dying?

82boy said:
This statement just blows my mind, because at our local club match factory class is where everyone got there start that is shooting with us today, and many names you see on the NBRSA eastern region leaderboards started at this match shooting factory class. When Fred Sinclair started our club match way back, it was designed with three class's, and the classes competed on there own level. (Meaning a factory gun will compete with a factory gun and never with an open or mod gun.) Factory gun which is a gun that was mass produced by a company, the rules have no limit of scope magnification, or caliber, (As long as it is a factory chambering, under 30 cal.) for the most part the gun must use factory parts, such as barrel, action, trigger. There is provisions for bedding, and trigger work. The stock can be replaced as long as it is a factory style. (No flat forearms.)

The next class is modified, which is a factory action, and the barrel can be changed out and chamber is what ever caliber the shooter choses, as long as it is under 30 cal. After market triggers are welcomed. No limitation on scope. The stock can be replaced, as long as it doesn't have a flat forearm. Back in the late 1990 early 2000 this was the biggest class. The third class is open, and this follow the NBRSA/IBS guidelines of a heavy varmint gun. This is the biggest class to date, as we all progressed on and wanted better. A few of use still bring out factory guns just for entertainment, or bragging rights, some will even shoot two classes such as factory gun, and open. We also have a pay out, so it is a chance to rake in a few more bucks.

With us we every once in a great while attract a new shooter and we usually keep them, and they will usually progress up and buy an open gun. Our main problem is finding people to show up, to get started. Most are squeamish about competition, and are afraid they will look bad, or mess up on the rules, or some other phobia. If we can get them to muster up the courage to bring a gun, and to shoot a match, we usually keep them coming.
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It's unclear to me why it is so important that matches must be made up of all custom guns. I also can't see why it's so important that the rules seem to declare that most everyone needs to shoot a 6PPC or a 30BR (depending on whether it's group or score) to compete.

We are well into our 3rd season shooting UBR matches at the Gallatin Gun Club. Yesterdays match had 10 Factory Class rifles and 13 Customs, along with a couple of Modified Class and 3 Unlimited guns. That adds up to 28 rifles and a bunch of folks that had a fine time no matter what they were shooting. Our Factory Class is easily the fastest growing and is every bit as competitive as the Custom Class.

Our club's aim is to promote the shooting sports. It doesn't matter to us what class a new shooter wants to compete in. All participants help pay the expenses, enjoy what they are doing and have a great time. Better yet, they are recruiting their friends. It is totally unnecessary to require everyone to have a custom rifle to come out and compete. This thread shows what that mentality produces. In any business, you must adapt to change and give the customer what he wants if you want to survive. Benchrest is no different.

There are plenty of people who want to compete if you make it available, attractive and affordable. I have proof.

Rick
 
Some people are all about winning in many cases! Just because you are not winning is no reason to quite, for as many years that I have shot 1000 yard benchrest I never think about winning. I think about have I improved! When I'm on the line I think about ways to make myself think about the follow through, go smoother and concentrate on what I'm doing. And I try to encourage new shooters not to give up. Even when you start out with a rifle that isn't competitive, try and do the best you can. I know when I first started, I didn't do that great but it was fun. Even today I get my butt kicked, but when I win they know I'm there. Don't you think that now days when kids are given trophies for just competing has anything to do with people not sticking it out? You've got to love the shooting to stay with it. If all our members were to come to a shoot I don't know how we could handle all of them, but they still want to be members.

Joe Salt
 
Zdog said:
Not putting the factory class idea down - just saying that it might not be a good way to get new shooters into the sport.
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Just because some folks choose to shoot factory-class guns does not mean they're not participating in "the sport."

Greyfox said:
It's unclear to me why it is so important that matches must be made up of all custom guns....

There are plenty of people who want to compete if you make it available, attractive and affordable.
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+1, and if Gallatin were a whole lot closer to me I'd be there shooting with y'all -- in factory class, or course.
 
aka Hunter said:
Just because some folks choose to shoot factory-class guns does not mean they're not participating in "the sport."



+1, and if Gallatin were a whole lot closer to me I'd be there shooting with y'all -- in factory class, or course.
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I just sent out an email to our competitors reminding them that we will only have 4 more matches this year. Atlanta isn't as far away as one would think. You should try and make one of our matches. You would be welcomed.

Rick
 
Maybe they are other reasons other than people dying, economics, etc.
 
Ok........

For going on six years, we have been having Benchrest Club Matches at Tomball. I am the match director, and I set up the rules. We shoot 100 and 200 yard score.

I set the classes up so that anybody that has a firearm can come out and compete. The three classes are Factory, Modified, and Benchrest.

We have anywhere from 35 to 40 shooters on average,and guess what. The vast majority shoot in the Benchrest Class with some type of Benchrest Rifle. The rules simply say that in that class, you can shoot any legal firearm.

Why aren't we getting more than 4 or 5 shooters in the other classes? In all honesty, I do not know. I have given shooters a place to shoot, a low entry fee, ($15), relaxed rules, a laid back atmosphere, and still only a fraction of the shooters come out and shoot in Factorynand Modified as opposed to the Benchrest Class.
 
Just a thought that I'm sure others have had as well....but I think a big portion of br shooters' first experience with an accurate rifle came from them buying a good shooting factory varmint rifle. I started this way and progressed to local fun matches where others were shooting similar equipment, then later into the more formal world of competitive benchrest shooting after taking the plunge into building a good custom br rifle to compete with. Several others that I shot with in the beginning followed the same path. With score matches being relatively easy(compared to group) to hold, more places are available in my area for shooting them than are group matches. My point is two fold. First, I think sanctioning bodies have been missing out on the factory guns and the breeding ground that they comprise. Second is, travel to matches doesn't make much sense to rural folks who can get a few guys together on a farm and shoot. That's where the availability of score matches in my area can entice new shooters to make the SHORT trip to go and shoot sanctioned matches...and reap all that comes from shooting next to more experienced shooters, shooting top notch equipment, etc. Classes allow them to compete with similar equipment. We're literally seeing this work at Gallatin. That's not debatable.

How many of us started like me, with a good shooting varmint rifle and a few guys in a field competing? That's the group of shooters that represent the breeding ground for those that may move up. But why would they want to spend a few grand on equipment, and travel a few hundred miles just to go see what it's all about, if they could much more easily keep shooting with their buddies on the farm? You simply can't blame anyone for not being willing to put that kind of capital into something with so many unknowns and lots of travel to boot. That's where score shooting, and it's ease of running and holding a match come into play. More matches closer by, means more availability to the prospective new shooter to move from the farm to the range. In this respect, group shooting is it's own worst enemy.
 
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jackie schmidt said:
For going on six years, we have been having Benchrest Club Matches at Tomball. I am the match director, and I set up the rules. We shoot 100 and 200 yard score.

I set the classes up so that anybody that has a firearm can come out and compete. The three classes are Factory, Modified, and Benchrest.

We have anywhere from 35 to 40 shooters on average,and guess what. The vast majority shoot in the Benchrest Class with some type of Benchrest Rifle. The rules simply say that in that class, you can shoot any legal firearm.

Why aren't we getting more than 4 or 5 shooters in the other classes? In all honesty, I do not know. I have given shooters a place to shoot, a low entry fee, ($15), relaxed rules, a laid back atmosphere, and still only a fraction of the shooters come out and shoot in Factorynand Modified as opposed to the Benchrest Class.
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Jackie....you're doing a commendable job. The attendance numbers speak for themselves. I saw my first Benchrest rifle while shooting my deer rifle at a public shooting range. It was love at first sight. The affection for the sport is as strong as ever. My deer rifle stays in the gun cabinet until the beginning of deer season. Your venue and others like it ,is a gateway for fence straddlers to decide whether to take the plunge. Some will, some wont. Once you shoot beside one of the race guns,its hard to bring beer to a mostly champagne party.


Glenn
 
While money is a problem for many of us it is not the worst issue. Add the weekends away and the vacations used away from the family and you have a sport for old retired people (or soon to be single). Time and money are all to short while raising a family.
 
JohnVm said:
While money is a problem for many of us it is not the worst issue. Add the weekends away and the vacations used away from the family and you have a sport for old retired people (or soon to be single). Time and money are all to short while raising a family.
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John there is one answer to that........get the wife and family involved. My wife travelled to a lot of Benchrest matches with me not only in New Zealand but Australia and a few other places as well. Now I'm lucky she has taken up shooting as well:D:D.......Ian
 
Why some of the Benchrest matches may be low in attendance.

Just a sample for this shooter that decided to travel to support a range that has had a low attendance.

Here is a close break down on the cost for me to travel to this shoot.

I have a F-250 Diesel Truck

Start Wednesday 10th from Calif. to AZ a 4hr. drive to spend one free night on Ocock’s couch at cost of dinner at Long John Silver $ 13.01 and listen on how good he is :)
Left the couch Thursday morning to drive the 10 hours drive to Raton NM.

Fuel: $428.04 average cost was $3.83 per gal from CA to Raton NM

Hotel: $ 169.41 @ $ 50.00 + tax $ 6.47 = $ 56.47 per night X’s 3 nights, most shoots its only 2 nights but due to the estimated 1000 miles I drove needed the extra night coming in late on Thursday night so I could have Friday to get some practice in.

Food: 2 nights at the Ice house / Mulligan’s = $ 35.00 and one night at the Ice house that was bought by a fellow shooter for 5 of his fellow shooters (Lester) yes I know you are surprised, get him away from selling he has a different personality besides able to shoot except this weekend when Todd Tyler beat his butt 3 out of the 4 yardages.

Food: subway, quiznos, dairy queen stops on way to eat on road while driving. $ 17.00 and an estimated $ 20.00 for ice, bag of donuts and chocolate milk to take to range.

Match Fee: $ 100.00 that is $50 a day no charge for the practice day. They have to pay the NRA $ 15.00 a day per shooter then the $ 2.00 per day per shooter, range officer, target crew and scorer out of the entry fee plus trophy’s not much left for them and they also have to take their personal time to set the match up.

This all above Total’s $ 782.46 estimated cost plus the interest on credit card to pay off.

Plus bullets, primer, powder etc.
 
And...

getting beat by Larry Baggett...

Priceless!!!!

Sorry Tom, couldn't help it!!!


Tom Libby said:
Why some of the Benchrest matches may be low in attendance.

Just a sample for this shooter that decided to travel to support a range that has had a low attendance.

Here is a close break down on the cost for me to travel to this shoot.

I have a F-250 Diesel Truck

Start Wednesday 10th from Calif. to AZ a 4hr. drive to spend one free night on Ocock’s couch at cost of dinner at Long John Silver $ 13.01 and listen on how good he is :)
Left the couch Thursday morning to drive the 10 hours drive to Raton NM.

Fuel: $428.04 average cost was $3.83 per gal from CA to Raton NM

Hotel: $ 169.41 @ $ 50.00 + tax $ 6.47 = $ 56.47 per night X’s 3 nights, most shoots its only 2 nights but due to the estimated 1000 miles I drove needed the extra night coming in late on Thursday night so I could have Friday to get some practice in.

Food: 2 nights at the Ice house / Mulligan’s = $ 35.00 and one night at the Ice house that was bought by a fellow shooter for 5 of his fellow shooters (Lester) yes I know you are surprised, get him away from selling he has a different personality besides able to shoot except this weekend when Todd Tyler beat his butt 3 out of the 4 yardages.

Food: subway, quiznos, dairy queen stops on way to eat on road while driving. $ 17.00 and an estimated $ 20.00 for ice, bag of donuts and chocolate milk to take to range.

Match Fee: $ 100.00 that is $50 a day no charge for the practice day. They have to pay the NRA $ 15.00 a day per shooter then the $ 2.00 per day per shooter, range officer, target crew and scorer out of the entry fee plus trophy’s not much left for them and they also have to take their personal time to set the match up.

This all above Total’s $ 782.46 estimated cost plus the interest on credit card to pay off.

Plus bullets, primer, powder etc.
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Ian_Owen said:
John there is one answer to that........get the wife and family involved. My wife travelled to a lot of Benchrest matches with me not only in New Zealand but Australia and a few other places as well. Now I'm lucky she has taken up shooting as well:D:D.......Ian
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Ian, I already tried that. Wife and most of the kids thought it was like watching grass grow. Tried to get some of them to shoot, this can be expensive and distracting. Watched one of them one time fire 15 rounds into the sighter and asked them what they were learning and they just thought it looked kind of cool seeing the group or pattern change shapes as they went or something like that. If they have no real interest in the sport they are just going to play and want to go home by lunch. I did get them involved in Trap shooting which intrigues the youth with short attention spans and their craving to break things. My second youngest daughter has actually done well at Calcuttas and made a little money. Funny how when they see money they suddenly do well and have a sincere desire to compete.:)
 
Tom

Does Caroline know you are spending all of her hard earned money?


MAC

And still Baggett beat you! That truly is priceless.

Yes it is expensive to shoot benchrest > you gotta want to do it!
 
I know that this is not a logical way to measure the condition of our sport but if you looked at the wait that many of us are going through to get a new barrel from one of the custom barrel manufactures you would think that the sport is really growing. Waits of 6 to 11 months for a custom barrel has become the norm. One of my friends has waited 6 months with no delivery date so far. I ordered a barrel a couple of months ago and hope it arrives by Christmas. At the NRA show none of the barrel manufactures there that I talked to were optimistic about this changing in the near future. The same goes with other items for precision rifle shooting. I have had a Sinclair Competition Shooting Rest on backorder for a while with no delivery date yet. Even ordering a custom rifle is harder than it use to be with long waiting times common place. I do not think these items are in the same category as all the other shooting items people are buying and in short supply because of the current political situation when it comes to firearms. Using this reasoning gives the appearance that the precision rifle shooting sport is growing even though it may not be.
 
Good Morning,

I have been shooting Benchrest for three years and just recently got into F/Class. There are many F/Class shooters who have tried BR and have been turned off by it because of how long it takes to shoot 20 rounds for score. I talked to an older shooter last weekend who had the same complaint. He said that at the last BR shoot he attended, he shot at 10:15, 12:00, 1:45, and finally finished up at 3:15.

In a way, I have to agree with him. In F/Class you are either shooting, scoring or pulling targets, and the time, and the match, go by much quicker than BR. Last weekend we were finished shooting 60 rounds in F/Class by a little after 2:00, but in a BR match we usually finish up around 3:30.

I enjoy the down time in BR because of all the kidding and extra BS that goes on. But for a new shooter that doesn't know anyone, it makes for a long day. I've even tried to get new shooters into the group, but they usually don't participate in the conversations, and eventually wander off by themselves.

I don't know how you could speed up BR. It is what it is.

BTW, I started in Factory Class, and am now shooting LG, and HG. I enjoy both, but for a new guy testing the waters, Factory class was a great fit for me.

Ken
 
Thoughts from a new guy

My 2 cents. I am new to the BR game and just recently participated in my first match a couple of weeks ago at the Gallatin club in TN. Everyone at the club and match went out of their way to make it easy for me and it fun. Like a lot of threads here, the cost to participate in this game is expensive, and the components are hard to come by. Take the cost and the amount of time it takes to compete and I can see how this is not for everyone. What surprises me is that considering the new interest in buying guns by the just about everyone over the past year, we dont see an increase in participation at organized BR matches. My thoughts are the clubs and organizers might be better served to do a little advertising at the gun shops, and reloading supply stores in order to drum up more interest, I believe that people simply dont know much about the sport. I simply stumbled onto a match at my range one Saturday when I showed up to sight in my newest hunting rig, and the match caught my interest. Of course now I am hooked!
 
In BR you have to have a keen interest in rifle accuracy and how to improve. Money itself is not usually an issue if this is the subject or hobby that keeps you awake at night wondering how to improve your flags or how can you get that smaller agg or why did one group come in at .146 and the next one come in .309 in the same conditions. This sport unfortunately has little spectator appeal unless your winning and you are watching the 3 closest competitors shoot there best group all day. It is true that very few people understand the game at first and many do not know where to go if they are interested. Almost all clubs in the US have a trap, skeet and or sporting clays field and most shooters in the area know were to find one. NRA magazines show high power matches and schedules and many clubs have matches to get you qualified for a garand or other military rifle from the gov't. Mention BR and most shooters get that blank stare on their face and if you tell them you shoot BR, they wonder what state you have to go to to compete. Even on this forum a lot of matches are not announced until to late for someone to look it up and find it. If you are in the BR circle of competitors you get a schedule and mark it on your calender for the year, but if you are new the info is not readily available.
 
BR vs. F-Class and SVC Rifle

I shoot BR as well as F-Class and Service Rifle. I like BR because it is WAY more relaxed than the other two. The comment was made a few posts ago that BR doesn't involve enough shooting in a short enough time period for some folks. My F-class and some of my service rifle is shot at a guard range where you MUST finish by 4 PM and where you have to work the target butts and also schlep your stuff to each firing station in double-time. This is 8 hours at least of hard work in the hot sun. I've already had skin cancer and don't want any more of it. I like the covered benches in BR and the time to clean my rifle and talk between relays. If you don't get enough shooting in BR, then shoot two rifles, or even three. Shoot more sighters too.
 
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