How do we increase membership today?

Wilbur,
I have not experienced what Mikecr has talked about. From the time that I was a rookie, I was treated in a very nice helpful way. I have been offered supplies, rifles, and advice when it was needed. I have been selling product for years and have had nothing but great dealings with the shooters. I think sometime people invite some of which he is talking about.
I am not a great shooter, I am in this because of the people that participate in this sport and the great times that we have.
Butch
 
I was a varmint/accuracy kid 25yrs ago and was out of shooting for over 20 yrs. Started shooting at the local club events last year with a upgraded varmint rifle and have really enjoyed it. The local guys at the club have been great. Kevin Hovis and Mike Greenwell have been remarkably helpful. I knew I was not going to drop $3k for a purpose built BR rifle, but knew out of the box OEM wouldn’t satisfy me. Wow,, did I talk to a few arrogant smiths in the process of getting what I wanted. If it wasn’t for Bill Hull at Shilen, a call with Mike Ratigan and getting to know the guys at the club, I would have been turned off and never come back. There are ppl in this clique that are very much out of touch with reality.

I am a newbie that is probably representative of many potential shooters. Here are few of my thoughts:

- You will get few first timers show up at the very limited, very far away, Official matches. Unless it’s in town, and someone knows someone already in it, you aren’t getting many newbies.
- This arrogant attitude of turning away ppl that do not want to write a check for a custom BR rifle needs to be eradicated.
- Focus on the local clubs. Get people shooting those varmint and other class guns in the local “br” events. Loose the capital “BR” attitude. Let people have some fun, learn about the sport, then grow into “BR”. I think there are few people that even make 100’s of thousands a year are going to buy an official BR rifle to see if they like the sport.
- Make an effort to get the local clubs linked up (one of the sanctioning bodies, internet….) so it is not a major effort to find out where some other half way local club has “br” matches. Before long one or two of them might grow into a “BR” match.
- NASCAR shows (not real racing) and F1 have been mentioned. They both have feeder systems. There is a network of “br” classes and tracks that don’t require “BR” equipment to get started. Hell even drag racing recognized this and implemented bracket “racing”. Not even racing but gets people involved.

I got more if you want it.

Shelly, disappointing to hear some don’t like you on here. I was not aware of some not liking the existence of this site. This site is one of the biggest reasons I put my toe in the water. And what a major learning database.
 
I have a question for EVERYBODY that actually shoots in either club BR matches or in registered BR matches.

Is BR the first individual competition of any sort that you have ever entered as an adult? By individual I mean just you, not some team as in softball, etc.
 
Idea: Have an "accurize your factory rifle" day... Get a few guys from the club to show up with some loading gear and a few powders (Adam, you reading this?) and bullets... If Bubba shows up with his thutty thutty, show him how a bit of handloading and consistency in hold could improve upon his likelihood of bagging Bambi...

Or we could go after varmint shooters...
 
Mikecr: you talk about change in the IBS, but nothing specific. One of the advantages of the IBS is that change can be initiated by the members. Please explain what are your proposed changes.

Also you say: "BR endeavors contributing no more than bowling". That is simply not true. Current tactical and sniper rifles owe a lot to benchrest. The short magnum craze is an outgrowth of the 6PPC. Savage is now building a RB/LP rifle. Synthetic stocks had their start in our sport. I am sure there are more innovations started in the benchrest cottage industry that has spread to a more general audience. I have used the following analogy before, but it is appropriate here: Look in the back pages of "Guns and Ammo" or "Shooting Times". You will see several ads in there from companies that do NOT cater to the BR crowd, but their ads use the appellations of "benchrest quality" or "built to benchrest standards". Benchrest is a brand that has been rightfully earned over the decades to represent the pinnacle of precision and accuracy. To compare it to bowling is, quite frankly, a disservice and an egregious insult to both the gunsmiths and small manufacturers that serve our community and to the benchrest shooters themselves.

Yeah, it IS a bit like the Formula 1 of the firearms industry-and I am glad of it. BUT we should NOT be snobs about it - new shooters SHOULD always feel welcome.

Jeff Stover
 
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Jeff, consider the horror...

If bowling combined with benchrest...

Aluminum pins, each turned to exacting standards.

A carbide ball, machined to wtihin 0.001" of pure roundness.

Shoes made by a company that is only open on every other Thursday, and not on months that begin with "J."
 
Butch, read closer...beyond the literal...

Butch Lambert said:
Wilbur,
I have not experienced what Mikecr has talked about. From the time that I was a rookie, I was treated in a very nice helpful way. I have been offered supplies, rifles, and advice when it was needed. I have been selling product for years and have had nothing but great dealings with the shooters. I think sometime people invite some of which he is talking about.
I am not a great shooter, I am in this because of the people that participate in this sport and the great times that we have.
Butch
Click to expand...

What mikecr wrote said that but it ain't about that...
 
Wilber
Ok I read mikecr's post and I still don't get it (don't get Calfee stuff always either) so instead of my taking another philopsophy class how about an explaination?
 
Wilbur said:
It's all right there in mikecr's post. Read it again and try not to be offended. I can't imagine that anyone would not take offense but try if you will.

The message is profound.

I'll leave you with that on an air of Bill Calfee...teaching you to fish if you will..
Click to expand...
Wilbur, you know me as well as anybody on this forum and you know that I can't read between lines worth a tinker's dam. I guess that's the reason I'll never understand wimmen. They love to talk in riddles and I'm too simple minded to get what they're trying to say.

It sounds like that if the benchrest community wants the non-benchrest shooter to join them in their sport there are so many hoops we (benchresters) must jump through and then they just might join us. Personally, I've never encountered the mindset that is mentioned in mikecr's post. Is it because I've never approached the benchrest community with a chip on my shoulder? I'm serious, I really don't have a clue as to what you are referencing. Care to explain or just call me and let's talk about it.

You mentioned the loaner rifle program that was in place once. Seems like some thought it was for their constant use instead of just being an introduction to the sport so they could see what it was all about without having to spend a lot of money. I know of one who took advantage of the offer when they had their own rifle, rest, scope, etc. but just shot one major match for free. Am I remembering that correctly?
 
Mickey, I think I get it. And I agree a lot with what he said, except I just come to a different conclusion. Here is my take: Benchrest is not for everybody. We shouldn't try to make it appealing for everybody. We shouldn't expect everybody to want to join.

What we can do to increase membership is just to keep shooting and putting on good matches. If more people join, fine. If they don't, that's fine too.

Go read Wilbur's article on competitive grioup shooting at
http://benchrest.com/articles/articles/11/1/How-to---Competitive-group-shooting/Introduction.html

A brief excerpt . . .

2) Do I have the money?



The purpose of this question is not to have you evaluate your relative net worth. Trust me, you have ENOUGH money. The real question is whether or not you have THE money? I talked with a spectator at a match one Sunday and he stated that he would dearly love to get into benchrest shooting but just couldn’t afford it. Later, I was cleaning my rifle and saw him driving away in a brand new custom painted chrome plated pickup truck pulling a real nice trailer. There was a four wheeler in the bed of the truck and three more on the trailer. I figured the 4 wheelers were a family thing and that was how his priorities aligned. On the way home that night my Caravan shuddered past 170K and I paid the light bill plus late charge on Wednesday. It was either pay the light bill or get my wife’s partial plate fixed. It all worked out well at the time because I bought a jug of powder and all we could afford was soup and mashed potatoes anyway. Money is not a show stopper either. Just give it some direct thought before you end up taking a loss on your purchases.
Click to expand...

You're not going to get the guy in the fancy truck with the trailer & 4-wheelers. So who needs him, anyway.
 
?????????

What is all of this "contributing" crap. NBRSA and IBS is first, and foremost, about Competition. The Sanctioning Bodies set forth the perameters of this Competition.
How much does Jeff Gordon's NASCAR Racer contribute to the Auto Industry. Or how much does Gregg Andersons Pro Stocker aid in the development of the latest offerrings from Detroit. Not very much. Like Benchrest, these endevours are first about Competition.
Personally,I am getting a little peeved at everybody saying that we have to kiss every shooters a-s in the hopes that they might give Benchrest a try. Heck, the reason most people do not want to shoot Benchrest is it is difficult. Very Difficult.
We have instituted a Club Match program at Tomball, simply to give shooters a chance to experience Benchrest in a more informal setting. It is a lot of work. We welcome everybody. We go out of our way to help anyone who needs it. But I'll be damned if I am going to get down on my knees and beg........jackie
 
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Jackie, that's about the way I have gotten to feel in my efforts to get people to come out. I will talk it up a bit and that's about it. I am not going to waste much effort on convincing the fence sitters.

BUT, once a newbie is actually at a match to shoot I will do just about anything to help him out and make him feel less conspicuous and more at ease. I still well remember how I felt at my first match. My ears felt hot all day :p.

Rifle not sighted in? No biggie, been there done that. Have a question?? ASK !!!!!

The other thing that I have decided is that it's not worth $50 out of my pocket on the off chance that a new guy might become a regular. In other words if you want to shoot one of my rifles in your first match or two, YOU have to feed it. IMO, for me to take you seriously you have to be willing to spend your own money on consumables [at the very least] to find out if BR is for you . I'm not saying I won't supply some powder or bullets or primers, just not the whole pile.
 
MRL said:
Wilber
Ok I read mikecr's post and I still don't get it (don't get Calfee stuff always either) so instead of my taking another philopsophy class how about an explaination?
Click to expand...


There is nothing there to get. I think he is the type of person that finds individual competition distasteful.

The only profound thing about the whole mess is that he actually hit the submit button :rolleyes:
 
crb

To answer your question. I raced APBA Powerboats, (five lap competition) through the '70's. I started racing Drag Bikes in the early 80's, darned near killed myself on a "high gear only" Fuel Harley, then deside to get into Car Showing. I built a really nice '67 Chevelle, showed it for a number of years, but got tired of being "judged" based on some ones opinion. I still have my Chevelle.
I started shooting in the mid nineties, and jumped right into the deep end.
It might seem strange to some, but I am not much of a "gun nut". I own only one other Rifle beside the Rifles I shoot in Competition.
For me, the Rifle is simply the piece of equipment that I use to Compete, no different than the boat, the motorcycle, or the car. I like the idea of accuracy and precision simply for the sake of accuracy and precision.
For me, it is about the Competition..........jackie
 
We're all competing... With ourselves. Because that's the only adversary that really matters. Well, there's always Tony...

I've beaten Tony on a yardage.

And I've augured in mightily... 3" horizontal switch *&^*)&^()* groups will do that to you.

I think we need to let folks see just what a tuned BR gun will do. That gets a lot of folks.

But the rifle/tune is maybe only 10%, if that much.

Face it - this is a game of doping conditions. Attention to detail. It's not for everyone. You can sell it to Bubba Varminter that it'll help improve his shooting, but you know what? He's only going to get so good before he gets bored...
 
That's it

I was trying to come up with an explanation and Charles E did it for me. crb said it well too.

Some folks just don't want to!
 
This post was not about begging, manipulating, or changing the rules to allow participation of those that are inferior people to BR shooters.

It simply said "How do we increase membership today" and some people simply gave their opinions.

Believe it or not, there are many people that have the attributes to be BR shooters,,, but never gave it more than a passing thought, or are even familiar with it. Some of you come across as you were born BR shooters, . Maybe so, but I'm going to guess that most BR shooters actually had a moment, contact with another person, read something, that commenced the process.

Again, I would suggest exposure and communication at the club level facilitated by a sanctioning body.
 
It JUST Hit Me !!

Seriously !!! We need a feature article in one of the glossy monthly magazines. Something like "G&A Shoots a Benchrest Match" or [ even better ] "Taking the Mystery Out of Short Range Benchrest".

Maybe if we were to submit an article on the lines of my 2nd idea we could then get an editor to come out and shoot a couple of matches and write article #1.

The only problem is that for the most part glossy mags are advertiser driven. They are more infomercials than objective journalism. In a lot of the photographs the getups I see the writers dressed in make me shake my head [ which takes me right back to the statement I made about the direction of our society re- make believe or pretend ].

This last thing I am going to write will probably cause a huge storm. It's too bad the NRA has chosen to totally ignore Benchrest competition. How about BR at the Camp Perry National Matches ????:)
 
"It's too bad the NRA has chosen to totally ignore Benchrest competition. How about BR at the Camp Perry National Matches"

I've shot at Camp Perry for many, many, years. Yes it would be nice if BR was part of the Camp Perry Matches, and if that happened I'm sure BR shooting would grow like you wouldn't believe, but that will never happen, please don't ask me why, as my answer, as I see it, would only P**s off a bunch of people.
SS
 
Dude, I'm not psychic.

Why is benchrest verboten at Camp Perry? Except that the thing is mostly about position shooting?

Lemme guess... If they DID have a benchrest match, a buncha benchresters probably would make it a very public thing to NOT attend... Sigh.

We also have had -some- articles in the "glossy" magazines... Jim Carmichael is (a) a damn good BR shooter; and (b) a damn good writer. But they sell their magazines to the guys who shoot Bambi's mama...

Now, how do we attract folks?

I've got a guerrilla grassroots idea: A whole bunch of folks get their "start" in a shooting discipline from reading about it. Magazines and such. Next time you are at your local Borders or Other Big Book Store, look at the magazine rack. And find the manager, and ask them to carry a magazine called Precision Shooting. I don't care if you think the bookstore is full of commie-symp liberal wussies. Just DO it! If enough folks ask, around the country, it will happen. Don't just ask once. Ask several times.

And more folks will be exposed to the sport. Because they will likely have magazines like Rifle or Handloader available... Maybe something around varmint hunting. If they get their magazines from a local distributor, who doesn't carry it, or who determines the product mix, get their name, and call and write them.
 
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