Future of group shooting

Wednesday?????

I guess that sort of leaves out the shooters who still have to work for a living.

At Tomball, we have three Registered Benchrest Matches between February and October, plus five Benchrest Club Matches. That is all the club will give us. And, we can only tie up the range for the Club Matches on the Sunday Morning, hence we can only shoot a 100 yard agg. This is working out well, as not that many have a big desire to shoot 200 anyway.

The three Registered Matches closes the range for the entire week end. Any more than that, and the 98 percent of the members who could care less about what we do, would revolt. We have to work within the confines of what the Club will allow us.........jackie
 
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Come on guys, you old timers know what it's about. BR has never had a "level Playing Field" for a new shooter, It's all about how much money a working guy can put into a gun that really cant be used for much of anything else. I guess it's fine if you can do your own work but if your not a machinist your at the mercy of who ever you can find.

BR is not a game for the average shooter, it never was, but that's only one of the reasons it hasn't grown like some other games. I'm sure I mentioned this before, if one of the Associations did something like the NRA does, ( shooter classification system ) BR may start to grow. It's no secret how it's done, NRA has been doing it for well over 50 years for both Rifle and Pistol and they don't have a shortage of shooters. In fact they have so many shooters some have to be turned away because there's no room on the line and all the relays are full. About the only thing that's fair for all the BR shooters is the Rifle rules. Odd that there's a Classification System for Rifles but not for shooters.

I'm starting to think that some of the powers in BR don't want BR to grow, maybe because it would be to much work, or maybe because there wont be any room left on the range for them. Only kidding, I think.

How many officials of any of the 10 or so BR associations have looked into the NRA classification system of shooting, and if any of them have, what was the reason for not giving it a try.
SS
 
S&s

The reason most classification systems will not work in 100-200 yrd Benchrest is because the game is so equipment oriented.

Example. A few years back, we had a shooter, who while not a novice to firearms, and shooting, was new to Benchrest. He had a Rifle built, and scored a phenominol barrel. He did pretty darned good, and would have been declared a "master", (if BR had such an animal).

But, as happens so many times, he finally burned that great barrel up, and guess what. He went to the middle of the pack in short time. He then, shortly after, dropped out of BR all together.


This is not an uncommon occurance. Even established shooters know that you are only one mediocre barrel, or average lot of bullets, away from the cheap seats........jackie
 
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future of group shooting

Yes jackie wednesday Or it could be saturday sunday or even in the afternoon Late after work like our HIGH power guys do \
They shoot on Friday evening. there are time,s we could shoot on the weekends.
wednesday is just an example. it's where it fits in right now.
WE HAVE 22 seprate shooting leagues,
If a new shooter needs to be primed he can contact one of us for a lesson . This year we had 2 people drive over 100 miles just to come and play , when they had time. They only had one complaint.
We should move our club closer to them:D
 
future of group shooting

Jackie
If he was that good at reading the wind and shooting then he belonged in the master class. No Maybe Just Maybe there's more to it then the rifle.
I can think of a host of things and reasons why people stop shooting , can't you? You have been around long enough.
 
Jerry

Once you reach a certain proficiency at Benchrest, I think it's about 60 percent Rifle, 40 percent Shooter.

I personally think that one of the big reasons we do not have more Competitors is for that very reason. Regardless how well a Shooter reads the conditions, and no matter how meticulous he is in his bench technique, he is no better than the Rifle sitting in the bags...........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
The reason most classification systems will not work in 100-200 yrd Benchrest is because the game is so equipment oriented.

Example. A few years back, we had a shooter, who while not a novice to firearms, and shooting, was new to Benchrest. He had a Rifle built, and scored a phenominol barrel. He did pretty darned good, and would have been declared a "master", (if BR had such an animal).

But, as happens so many times, he finally burned that great barrel up, and guess what. He went to the middle of the pack in short time. He then, shortly after, dropped out of BR all together.


This is not an uncommon occurance. Even established shooters know that you are only one mediocre barrel, or average lot of bullets, away from the cheap seats........jackie
Click to expand...



Jackie ,
It seems your saying that if guys don't win they quit. Sounds like a bunch of kids, everyone has to get an award or they will cry and go home.

I look at it this way, if new guys, or even older guys, don't think they have a snowballs chance in hell of placing at least somewhere in the middle of the pack even in the lower class they won't waste there time and money trying.

Your friend that quit because he was in the middle of the pack in a "no class" event may have been first in the "expert" class and continue to shoot because he could hold his own in that class.

Please don't forget, the NRA classification systems work both ways, you can go up, or down. Seems to make it fair for everyone. Being that none of the BR associations will try it I guess we will never know.
SS
 
future of group shooting

Jackie your correct to a degree.
But if you really get the bug the rifle becomes a non issue.
I have several rifles that will win matches and titles.
They are possable zero groups hiding in them.
Still to put it lightly i can't shoot as well as the rifles.
That still doesn't keep me from going to the matches''
The people are what make it fun. Yes it's nice to win and now and then when i get it together { when theese old bones don't hurt ttoooo much}
I sneek up on a few of the top guys once in a while.
It's the fun that keeps me shooting/
 
FBecigneul,
I agree, NRA matches are no more exciting than IBS or NBRSA. But I don't agree that it's about the money they spend on advertising, they spend very little on adds promoting there Rifle and Pistol shooting events, a bit of advertising cant hurt but who you going to advertise the events to, the BR shooters, we should all know that's a waste of time, there all ready shooting.

I may catch hell for this statement but It just seems that the leadership of the BR associations don't much care as long as there doing there thing and there's a few shooters on the line.

Who can tell me what association has tried to promote different ideas so that the sport would grow.
SS
 
Barrels:

There is not enough realization as to the importance of winning barrels among shooters or perhaps it is better to say that many people shooting are not willing to have multiple barrels chambered to find a great one. They don't see( me included) that trying to make a Silk Purse is a false economy. How do we get that message across? Then there is the WAIT for a barrel to be chambered in much of the BR world. If one doesn't have the facilities and/or skills to chamber their own barrels they usually have to wait - - - -- -.

Another thing I have noticed; most often the first barrel that is installed on a new rifle SHOOTS. Often the second DOESN'T; not as well anyway. What's up with that?
 
I just started score shooting this year an loved it.Benchrest shooters have got to be the best bunch of guys I have ever been around.The one thing that i've learned there is no stupid quiestions an very one is ready to offer a hand if you have problems.If you think it is the cost or being able to compete with the veteran shooter of benchrest thats maybe keeping new guys away I dont think so.I love the challange an know someday I might be able to runn with them an maybe beat a few.I think that its the young people haven't been everaround firearms or there parents dont think its correct or safe to have there children using guns because they see all the stuff thats goin on in the world today.Have seen this around here at home with young people hunting.But I dont know thats just what I think.
 
future of group shooting

I see three good points here by three diferent people.
First let me say this IBS and the NEW president are looking for new ways to promote the sport,
The barrel situation still is another matter and the waiting time.
I have found over the years that some barrels do shoot better then other barrels. That said let me tell you about one in particular Brand x lets say.
At 26 inches a hv it would not shoot small enough to be any where near competative, I had the barrel cut down 6 inches for a L/v and it came alive.
I doubt that it was a barrel problem , More of a smith problem.
The barrels we are getting today are better then ever and we are really lucky to get so many to tool up to make them.
I blame most of the poor shooting barrels on poor smithing . Now and then even the best get in a hurry and mess up, or forget where they are in the process. one tiny mistake can ruin a great shooting rifle.
The other thing is how the barrel sets in the stock. It has to fit just like the last one .
Tate'''' your on to something You just found out what benchrest is all about''
Good guys enjoying each other and shooting to get better with each shot.
The ribbing and kidding are free. Good luck and enjoy .
 
future of group shooting

Francis your correct .
Years ago we did have a magazine that had a lot of real benchrest in it. Shooters news and rifle magazine, You remember those.
Your correct on the clubs promoting it also.
We try our best and have the same problems that other club have.
I know of 1 club that is stricly geared for benchrest and has only one shoot a year. The reason> Help'
Most of the members are passive shooters.
I guess one way would be to put a big ad in the local newpaper.
Inviting everyone to come and see what accuracy shooting is all about.
It tough with an anti gun newspaper' In sports they print just enough to get by.
 
FBecigneul,
What you and some others have done in the name of BR is great, but I think your wrong when you say that "we are the association". Most of us as members of an association just go along with association policy.

My question was "Who can tell me what association has tried to promote "different ideas" so that the sport would grow."

I guess what I am asking is what has any of the associations done to make the sport grow, or what has the leadership in any of the associations done to promote the BR game in the name of the association.

There's a lot of WE's out there and I'm sure "we" are all doing what ever we can, but it seems that it's not an association effort, the associations just seem to be more or less let run themselves, there seems to be a "leak" of old members and not many new members are coming in to plug up the leak, if the leaders allow things to continue this way some day there may not be much of an association to lead.
SS
 
How many on here giving advice fit into one or more of these catagories:

1. Never attended a registered BR shoot
2. Never shot a registered BR shoot
3. Isn't a member of either the NBRSA or IBS

If you fit into any of these catagories, then one thing is for certain, you don't have a clue about the number of people trying to advance this sport.

One of the biggest topics at BR matches seems to be how can BR be advanced. There was a lot of discussion about this at the NBRSA Nationals this year. Joe Krupa and Don Neilson are two examples to people that go above and beyond to try and advance the sport.

The one thing I constantly hear about on here is how BR should be changed to draw more people. Well, I for one, don't think changing the sport will do anything but destroy it (like skill levels, etc)(How's Obama change going?). What needs to be done is marketing.

Hovis
 
Ok,
I'll go along with that, now please tell me what association has been "marketing" their BR game to shooters on a National level and where have they been doing it ?.
SS
 
S/S,

That is the one failing point....BR shooters/Organization have to come to a decision on how to "market" benchrest. I think the Directors and Presidents of both organization may feel a little apprehensive to put the organizations money into a marketing idea for one or two reasons. 1. Money is not abundant. 2) If it fails.....their tared and feathered.

I do know that the organizations are working on flyers to post at shooting ranges. I do believe this is a good move and a economical one also.

One other point.....I personally believe that most BR shooters come from local unregistered BR fun matches. Also, in a lot of areas, there just aren't any ranges with knowledge of BR or there is a lack of ranges. For example, in Indiana, there used to be a few registered matches every year. Now, there is none. Fred Sinclair, Fred Hasecuster, & Mark Penrod are just a few of the very good shooters that came from Indiana. But it seems there was a gap (no one) to hand the candle to when they decided to move on from shooting. There is again an interest in Indiana, I know of a few people around the Bloomington area that are wanting to get matches underway. But it's not as easy as it may seem.

Hovis
 
Kevin - an updated benchrest flyer has been posted on the IBS web site - www.internationalbenchrest.com. Click "downloads", then scroll down. It is an update to one that we put on early this year. We changed it so that a local contact can be written at the bottom. The intent of the flyer is to print them out for distribution at clubs, gun shows, gun shops, etc.

So you can see what the IBS is making available, please see attached a LOW RESOLUTION version of the flyer. IT MAY BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED.

If anyone would like some of them printed out in color (high-rez) on good paper please email me at:

jstover33@verizon.net

By the way, we hope to launch the redesigned IBS web site prior to the Annual Meeting (January 16). The new structure will aid navigation within the web site.

jks
 

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Thanks Jeff,

That's what I was talking about.

S/S: If you don't know...Jeff is the President of the IBS. You won't find anyone trying harder to promote BR than him.

Also, the NBRSA President cast the deciding vote on establishing a trial period for Score shooting in the NBRSA.

Both of these Presidents of our organizations have and are working very hard to attract new shooters.

Hovis
 
Finally,
It seems that one of the associations is doing something. I was betting that IBS would be one of the first to "officially" try an do something. I'll print it out and have a bunch of copies made, will leave some at Ranges, Gun Shows, Gun Shops etc. Hope everyone else does the same. Thanks Jeff.

Now if they could modify that "remove bolt" rule for guns that don't have bolts I would go to a few events an shoot my Single Shot Falling Block bench gun. Has anyone gotten away with using one of those orange chamber flags at one of the shoots or did they just chase you away.
I know, I know, that would be asking way to much.
SS
 
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