Future of group shooting

future of group shooting

This year our winter league will have unaltered factory rifles shooting hunter class at 100 yds.
We also will have benchrest rifles shooting but in a different class.
Just for fun.
You see we just don't talk the talk we walk the walk.
The matches are open to the public.
50% is returned to the shooters.
We are hopeing to encourage new shooters to give it a try and see just how good those factory rifles shoot.
 
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Some of you got to see our game at the NBRSA Nationals

Our Club Level activity is growing a whole new batch of competitive shooters.

From our website "Vintage Benchrest is a blast from the past and a blast to compete in. Our desire is to return competitive shooting back to its roots. There is a growing trend across the country for competitive shooting sports that are fun and affordable. This is the right shooting sport at the right time. Low match fees, low gun prices and low ammo prices add to the attractiveness."

http://vintagebenchrest.com

http://www.shootingstl.com/home.htm

Once a competitor has his feet wet Centerfire Benchrest group shooting does not seem so intimidating.

Regards, Bruce
 
It has been fun watching this post evolve from the start. A little realigning is needed though. Not that your ideas are not interesting but most have been tried before, The SER under the direction of Wilbur had a new shooter program back in the 90's and into the new century that provided all that a new competitor needed (On loan for the match). I think this was reasonably successful. But, The main point of my post is that we need better and more encompassing leadership that will renew the sport and give it new life. In my opinion our current elected officials are sailing a sinking ship, Oblivious to the conditions.

The "loaner" program was extremely successful. Folks donated powder and bullets freely but nobody ever offered to help haul the stuff around or deal with the pre-match effort. Imagine that every match you attend you have to set up for two and teach somebody how to shoot benchrest in a half hour. I seemed to be the only one interested in that particular program short of those that handed me donations. Again, it did work rather well and would be beneficial to continue that sort of thing....well...that thing exactly.

The problem with the leadership is they have no followers. The elected "officials" could work day and night and it wouldn't make any difference. The "membership", however, could make short work of any effort.
 
13 months ago

I sent a question by postcard to 100 past members. The question was simply, "Why didn't you renew?". The options were to respond on the supplied "return" card, on the website (hidden page) or not respond at all. Some 35 responded, 20 of which used the website. Trust me that the return cards are similar to the web site responses. I removed the names to protect the innocent and attached the web responses in an Adobe PDF file. It appears that two items stand out, the economy and the NBRSA news, but that's just my take.

Kindly resist "attacks" on specific responses as these folks took the time to answer and they didn't have to.
 

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Something I said????

It's been a day and a half since I posted and this seemingly popular thread just STOPPED COLD. Was it something I said...should I delete my post??
 
I belong to USPSA, whose annual dues are about the same as NBRSA. For that membership I get "Front Sight" magazine which runs to 80-90 pages and is informative and entertaining. Also I can shoot a regristered match just every weekend, the nearest is only 30 miles away. IBS membership includes "Precision Shooting" also informative and entertaining to read. Because I am a NBRSA member, I have to subscribe to "Precision Shooting".

What do I get for my NBRSA membership? The nearest range where they even have club matches is a four hour drive away. Other ranges where they have BR matches are more like a full days drive. The closest range only has seven matches a year, of which only one is regristered. I also get the "NBRSA News" which in neither entertaining or very informative. In fact, in my opinion, it is a waste of the paper it is printed on. It would be cheaper to just post the various match stats on the internet. Why not cut the cost of annual NBRSA membership and quit sending the NBRSA News. It certainly is not a benefit.
 
future of group shooting

Hi Wiber.
I Just Read the posts on the file.
They brought up many valid points.
I see the concern about the cost.
The travel
the time . etc.
I can see their point. Then with NBRSA not allowing Ibs shooters to shoot in their match,s it probably doesn't help match partipication.
Maybe it's time for some type of agreement between both organizations.
IBS allows NBRSA shooters in their Matches, Why not NBRSA?
I know it's and old story BUT........

It's true on the component,s also.
Between the EPA setting strict standards for the powder companies and the foreign companies having mineral rights and getting so envolved in our economy the price of our components have risen dramaticaly.
Now don't take this wrong I'm not anti corporate "
It just seems that the international comunity has just a bit too much to say about what we do. Right now the primer shortage or should i say Hoarding is closing the supply lines.
This certainly isn't helping either.
Then there are the scalpers who can get it for you {AT A PRICE}
Just my nicklels work '''''
 
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future of group shooting

beer smoke?
It certaily isn't me Francis.
Still Nbrsa should give my post a good look''.
The cost?
Well everything cost more. That's because someone decided that international trade was the route the us economy should take . Then add this
The Anti Gun education system .
All of the factors are coming into play.
It's not just benchrest either it's a lot of the shooting sports.
Last year practice trap was way down.
Gas prices have come down?
Not really'' They were just testing the waters to see how much the traffic would bear. It still way abouve the 3 year mark.
Where are the raises to keep up with inflation?
I best shut up on this it could go on for quite a while.
simply put government is out of control and the economy is stagnent.
 
future of group shooting

Some people just don't get it.
Breaking even on the trophys, targets , and other cost.
It takes at least 35 shooters today , just to break even on a match.
After
the clubs loose money they are reluctent to have more matches.
The The directors know how much work it takes to have a match and keep it running smooth. How many really chip in?
It takes a month to get preped for the matches
Group has to be set up mid week just for a weekend shoot .
We are lucky to have the quality of people we have at the club levels too.
With out a turn out There's little Reason to hold a match.
 
And so it goes....

117 posts to this thread with no positive action. All that discussion and we just dropped it "like a hot tater".
 
All the benchrest disciplines have a total of what, 5,000??

Jerry
I am afraid realistically the number is much smaller than 5000 , the total membership of NBRSA and IBS combined is under 4000 and of those the number that compete in at least one Registered match a year or the Supershoot I believe is maybe 700 total. Including long range.

Dick

PS I do not include rimfire BR only because I have no idea of the stats.
 
So then I guess with BR shooters it's just all about the almighty dollar, money for the clubs, money for the winners. What ever happened to competitive shooting just for the fun and joy of shooting ?.

I read a report not long ago by Mike Krei, director of the NRA Completive Shooting Division, saying that more than 10,300 NRA Sanctioned events and about 40 National Championships for the different disciplines of Rifle and Pistol shooting are held every year, he also said that Thousands of shooters take part in these events nation wide from Novices to World Class competitors ( by the way, they have a classification system set up for all the different disciplines of Rifle and Pistol events ).

Odd thing is that NRA does not have, or is it, does not want to have, anything to do with BR shooting, anyone wonder why ?.

Anyone wonder how they do what they do ?. Seems like they don't have a shortage of shooters. I know that when I was involved in the NRA events more than a few times I was turned away because there was no room on the line and all the relays were full.

Somebody better wake up in BR and take notice of what the NRA is doing right, with them I doubt it's a money thing as a lot of there entry fees are less than BR events and there awards have nothing to do with money.
SS
 
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Go back and re-read Gerry's post

That is the biggest reason Fayette stopped. Yes there were some who wanted it stopped,and did not want the work that was involved, but if it had been making enough profit, there might be shoots there today. When you only have 30 to 35 shooters show up, the club only breaks even.and to those members that dont care about group shooting, its not worth it
 
Perhaps---

117 posts to this thread with no positive action. All that discussion and we just dropped it "like a hot tater".

fixing it to where shooting ranges made a profit would be positive action. I can only think of two ways to do that (1.) Increase attendance at the matches or (2.) increase entry fees.
I may be wrong in my thinking but I feel that if there were more places to shoot---more shooters would join in
 
future of group shooting

I think most of my posts had a posative imput.
It's up to the clubs to promote the sport.
I do believe classifications are at least worth a try.
The expenses to the shooters for equipment also need to be addressed.
The cost of running the matches also.
Is it falling on deaf ears?
Clubs should have small seminars on benchrest shooting.
Some backing will be needed by both organizations also.
One thing we plan on having is accuracy handloading '
This one would bring in people from the other shooting sports.
Once they see what that high power rifle can do with a proper tune, the interest should follow. Getting the passive hunter interested would take some score shooting with factory rifles.
 
future of group shooting

I guess that's the answer keep trying.
My club is very large and growing.
If and when we have a seminar on handloading it will be Free.
The benchrest equipment is here ready to shoot.
I'll supply bullets and powder cases etc.
I have 3 rests that i will let people use .
After the seminar they will get a chance to shoot a few groups with ammo they loaded them selves. also if they wish they can bring their own rigs to shoot.
I think this is the way to go.
a small investment by the clubs and individuals to promote the sports
We have to pass it on. If after this only one becomes interested it's a success. Those old sleeved rifles still can be competitive if loaded properly.
We have to make it FUN"
Measure a few groups and make a big fuss about how well they shot .
 
Would you like to hear from somebody new?

I shot my first comp. 34 years ago, 4 position .22 rimfire, 50 ft. Shot other comps. small bore hunters pistol and local Practial Pistol matches. Might shoot a bench rest comp. around Christmas in Titusville, FL. Stopped by their range last Christmas time while visiting InLaws. Use to live in T'ville and shot at that range many years ago. Last summe bought a used 6mm PPC benchrest rifle, as I remember they shoot for score so a .30 would have been better, still in the market, or maybe a new barrel.

I enjoy comps, don't mind reasonable entry fee. Long distance travel is a problem. Cost of ammo for practice or comp is not an issue. Could care less about a trophy or plaque or certificate. Don't really want to join another organization.

What I would really like is a competition where shooting skill is the primary measure.

When I was in high school we shot 4 position rimfire and just about everyone shot the same rifles with the same ammo and so the best shooter on that day won. Maybe I should have purchased a rimfire benchrest rifle.

With my used rifle I have yet to shoot a group less than 0.200 and most of my groups are in the 0.300's but I will go shoot with those T'ville guys and see what I can score.

Maybe I should look into F-class or rimfire but what I would like is a stock class where a $1500 (or less) stock rifle is used with any ammo, shot at 100 yards (longest local range) shot off the bench for score or group. I am glad to take great care to load precision ammo, turn necks, weigh cases and bullets. I can even stand to load ammo at the range, sort of, my local range requires that I haul everything 400 yards, distance, parking to bench.

My used benchrest rifle is the most expensive firearm I have ever purchased. It cost me $1200 including the scope, it is also far an away the most accurate firearm I have ever owned.

I probably have $15,000 invested in firearms and reloading equipment. So, to you guys it probably does not look like I am dedicated enough since if I spent half my firearms investment on benchrest stuff I could (if I can load and shoot well) be competitive.

Tough SNIT, I like to collect topbreak Smith's, have a few hunting rifles and shotguns, still want to shoot my hunters pistol guns. Shoot some practial selfdefence stuff. I like having an accurate rifle, something that can shoot under 0.250 MOA but I could care less about trophy's or records or prize money. I do like shooting with smart people with a good attitudes. I don't like competition where the cost for a competitive entry is high. A lot of comps today, to be competive you need $5,000 in equipment and assessories. FUDGE that I will buy what I like and go shoot by myself at the local range. I am still trying to figure out what all the different benchrest comps are. It seems that even the short range stuff has a number of different classes. How about one class, one course of fire, one score. I think that some people shoot one gun in more than one class, what is up with that?

I hope this provides some insight to how you could improve your attendance at comps. but maybe not, you want more people to want what you currently have and that ain't where it is at.
 
Do you think having a hummer barrel or magic bullets/powder would spur you to shoot in more matches? Or, Do you think It's all skill in group competition and the components just have a marginal affect on small aggs?

Also, List one thing that would make you go to a match that you normally wouldn't attend.

I have been reading the post on trophies and I for one like patches/pins better. I'll never forget back in 90 at the Wilmington, NC. match seeing Ed Watson with his shooting jacket with all those patches. He called it his intimidation coat. It was a sight to see.
 
future of group shooting

Dt"
It starts at the club level and goes from there. Each wednesday we have matches that are informal at our club. The fees are only a few dollars to cover expenses. We give 50% back in prize money to the shooters.
we stop right in the middle with the prize money Most of the time we have 10 to 15 shooters , so we pay down to about 7th place and if there are only 10 we pay to 5th place, No one gets rich at the games we play.
It's fun and a real social get together.
We shoot all summer till early fall usually 28 weeks.
After the centerfire in the morning we shoot IR 50/50
Staring at 10 am we usually finish up by noon or 1 pm the latest.
It doesn' cost a bundle and generates alot of interest.
All you really need are people who really want to shoot'''
 
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