Are "black rifles" allowed

Hopefully you aren't really that obtuse... what I said was that as a *match official* (since you can't seem to translate '(different sport)' on your own) I support keeping things safe without doing it in an abrasive manner. And no, I don't mean coddle them. If a new shooter breaks the rules, enforce them. Just be even-handed about it. If you want to argue about *that*... then in my opinion you're part of the problem.
 
I intend to stay out of it

I will have a Line officer or officers and referees. I will report anything I think should be reported to the Orginization. We are in agreement totally.
 
Gerry said:
i would make the pin a little longer , so it's Easy to take down without tools.
As they set you need something to push the pin out {
Like a bullet tip]. That's the way it was designed.

On a personal note i could see the use of and open bolt locked back and a safety flag in the chamber.
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while the books say a tool...not one of mine(7-15's. 2-10's) require anything more than a push with a finger.

mike in co
 
Al Nyhus said:
Mike: Don't wait for something to happen...or for some one to "let you know" when a club is hosting these events. Why not lobby your local club to register with the IBS and have these tournaments? Or become the match director at your local club and run these shoots?

Waiting sucks........ -Al
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aww but i would have to give up directing the one match i currently run. my club br natches are run by another person..and we do currently allow ar's. i have been shooting them for years......won a hunter class one yr with a "stock" ar-10t.

lets see if any of the locals advertise it....ault is closest.

mike in co
 
Pete Wass said:
I have seen no less then a half dozen guys, when their AR jammed, stand up and start pushing pins, flailing the muzzle all around the place, etc, etc. This is where my concern and comment comes from. Anyone who knows a little bit about these rifles knows how to easily un-jam them safely. I predict it will be an issue. There had better be some darn clear guidelined issued to these folks.
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pete,
there will be a big difference...they will be shooting single shot, not a mag load semi-auto......
it really should be a non-problem.

i do agree there are people out there i dont want to shoot next to.

lets all keep an open mind, and open eyes.
thanks
mike in co
 
Mike we WERE talking about semi auto fire, but maybe with a limit on number of rounds (say 15-18...no 30 round clips). Some guys can already shoot a Bench rifle darn near like a semi. :D

SAFETY, of course, is vital. Here is what I suggest:

1. Do a one page flyer for the AR shooters...Welcome to Benchrest...do's and DONT'S.

2. Require a meeting in the morning with all AR shooters, say 10 minutes before the actual match, to go over what should be done if there is a jam, what if there is any other problem, etc. Safety is not something we can rely on osmosis to provide.
 
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i read the post, but as this was br, i did not take it that way. i took it to mean that auto eject, single fire.
oh well......that just puts me that much further ahead....i don't consider semi as precision.

mike in co
 
Jeff Stover said:
...In recent days, the IBS Executive Board approved, on a one-year TRIAL basis, to create an AR class. Clubs will be given the OPTION to allow "black rifles" in ANY IBS shoot...
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I just read in BuckMaster magazine that a million ARs have been sold in the past year. I'm just one of those... I like the idea of an AR Class.
 
I am one of those new shooters with an AR15, and I am VERY pleased that an organization has seen fit to try to accommodate these rifles. All the reasons cited make perfect sense. I have to also agree with Milanuk that the attitude of the old guard will be critical. Little could kill an AR class faster than a hyper-critical or snobbish attitude.

Most AR owner knows the rifle is no benchrest gun. And that's fine. There are plenty who wish to shoot a tight winning group using a gas gun.

The safety issue will be minimized with single shot operation, such as when using the Sinclair single shot mag insert. Bolts can be quickly removed if needed. Or could a chamber flag be used? Measures can be taken to ensure that any jam is safely handled. Best thing for someone like me is that if I am not sure how to handle, have someone nearby who can assist.

I would also include AR-10s or other 30 caliber semi-autos. These are increasingly popular, and can do long range with something like the 260 Remington vs the standard 308. The AR-15 can shoot 223 Remington, 6mmAR, 6.5 Grendel, if the rules permit alternate rounds.

- Phil
 
What about

the bolt actioned Black Rifles? Where are they gonna fit in? Can't exclude them from all this fun now can we?
 
Well Adrian

there are a whole lot of Black Bolt Rifles out there. Remingtons, Savages, and any number of custom actioned rifles. Just go to the 6 BR page on guns of the week and you will see quite a few of them there. A search on this site will show one quite a few others.

A point here is nothing is ever simple or easy and everything like this should be very well thought through before hand. The worst thing is to have to play catch-up once something has been instituted without being well thought out. We are still trying to clear up ambiguties in the rule book we run by that has been in existance for who knows how long. :eek:
 
Good call

Pete Wass said:
...The worst thing is to have to play catch-up once something has been instituted without being well thought out. We are still trying to clear up ambiguties in the rule book we run by that has been in existance for who knows how long. :eek:
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So there would need to be a definition of what an "AR" is?
 
Gents, the intent was to make a class for the semi-auto AR's (AR-15, AR-10). The Tubb (or tube) rifles are bolt guns and pretty esoteric. They are a different animal and not what I was proposing.
 
Jeff Stover said:
Gents, the intent was to make a class for the semi-auto AR's (AR-15, AR-10). The Tubb (or tube) rifles are bolt guns and pretty esoteric. They are a different animal and not what I was proposing.
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I fully understand (AR Class) and I look forward to it. This could really increase membership and introduce many many people to BR. I have many AR buddies who have never even seen a picture of a true Bench Rest rifle.

Adrian
 
Tube Guns

There are no rules prohibiting "tube guns" from competing in HV, LV, and Sporter, as long as the stock meets the dimensions, and the barrel is within the profile as set forth by the rules.........jackie
 
Jeff..

Jeff Stover said:
Gents, the intent was to make a class for the semi-auto AR's (AR-15, AR-10). The Tubb (or tube) rifles are bolt guns and pretty esoteric. They are a different animal and not what I was proposing.
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If what you are talking about is simply the E boards's encouragement of local clubs to host an AR class and not a "sanctioned" IBS class (a la "factory class") that is one thing. But, are you talking about a sanctioned class? If the later, isn't that the purvue of the agenda item and annual meeting vote? I'm a bit confused. Thanks --Greg
 
Greg, the proposal was to create a "non-registered" AR class. We cannot change the IBS rule book that quickly as you know. It just gives the clubs the OPTION to host these matches. I would foresee that if they are successful that a formal rule change would be submitted as an agenda item for 2011. The rule book is NOT being arbitrarily changed.

jks
 
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Jeff..

Jeff Stover said:
Greg, the proposal was to create a "non-registered" AR class. We cannot change the IBS rule book that quickly as you know. It just gives the clubs the OPTION to host these matches. I would foresee that if they are successful that a formal rule change would be submitted as an agenda item for 2011. The rule book is NOT being arbitrarily changed.

jks
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that approach sounds like a winner. Certainly fills a void in the AR shooting arena. Tks --Greg
 
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