Are "black rifles" allowed

N

noone

Guest
A fellow at my gun club says that NRA rules may allow use of rifles like the AR15 in some bench rest matches. Does anyone have information about this?

Certainly, they aren't as accurate as typically used rifles, but they have become so popular, shooters want to test the accuracy of these rifles against similar rifles..maybe there is a separate class for semi-autos.

What information does anyone have about this?
 
Noone

There are two Sanctioning Bodies for 100-200 yard Registered Benchrest Competition, the NBRSA and the IBS. Neither are affiliated with the NRA as far as Matches go. While they do not specifically prohibit the use of AR style Rifles, the rules are written in such a manner that shooting one is a exercise in futility. For instance, both bodies have what we call a "bolts out rule" that makes no provision for flags or any other indicators that would allow a bolt to be left in a Rifle. All Benchrest Rifles that shoot in Registered Competition must be operated single shot and hand fed. See what I mean.

However, what we do have are active Club Match programs that are set up to do just what you suggest. At our Club Matches at Tomball Texas, mass produced AR's that are unmodified can shoot in the Factory Class, while those more exotic semi-custom offerrings can participate in the Modified Class.

As popular as the AR scene is, I often wonder why someone has not formed a Sanctioning Body to hold true Benchrest Matches using these types of Rifles...........jackie
 
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noone said:
A fellow at my gun club says that NRA rules may allow use of rifles like the AR15 in some bench rest matches. Does anyone have information about this?

Certainly, they aren't as accurate as typically used rifles, but they have become so popular, shooters want to test the accuracy of these rifles against similar rifles..maybe there is a separate class for semi-autos.

What information does anyone have about this?
Click to expand...

NRA does not control any of the benchrest venues.

Yes, an AR15 can be shot in benchrest competitions if it is altered to be fired as a single shot and meets all the other various br competition equipment requirements.

No, it cannot compete for tournament awards in its stock mfg. configuration, and there are no br nationally registered competitions, that I know of, that the AR15 would presently qualify for..........Don
 
At my local club, there are a couple guys that shoot modified AR's.
They have the peep sites, shoot single shot, brass deflectors, .....
But, they shoot at a Slow fire target. 3" 10 ring. We shoot for 200 points.
Local club rules. Not NRA, IBS, or NBRSA.
It's some good fun.
It's a Tuesday league. 16 wks. 0930 and 1830. So even working guys can shoot. :)
 
and then there is me.
three ar based benchrest rifles.( 223, 308win br, 6ppc)
pushing the rear pin between the upper and lower allows the bolt to be removed..takes about that long.
turning the gas block 90 degrees makes it single shot.
adding a single shot follower takes care of magazine issue.
that makes it legal.
now to make it competitive is a different story.

36x or more scope, flat fore arm, ability to cycle the bolt and get enought shots of in the time limit. bbl's without gas ports.....
its only been about five years..and i'm not there yet. i shoot local club matches..and have beaten 6ppc bolt guns.....but as everyone whines...no registered matches yet.....maybe with the 6 beggs.


your stock or custom semi-auto ar with a factory chamber is not a br rifle and is not even close.

mike in co
 
And kicking a piece of HOT brass at the next bench will win you a bunch of friends, unless you catch/block them somehow
 
Roger T said:
And kicking a piece of HOT brass at the next bench will win you a bunch of friends, unless you catch/block them somehow
Click to expand...

ince semi is not typically allowed its a non-issue...see above.
if the gun is a llowed as is...simply place a shop towel over the top of the gun, drapped over the port and ..bingo no flying brass.

the ejector spring can be trimmed to drop them on your bench!

mike in co
 
This would seem to me

like trying to race the old boxxy style Yellow Cabs in a Nextel Cup Race and hoping to win. OR----- racing a Pontoon Barge in a Hydroplane race. Probably it is way more appropriate to race Pontoon Boats together, don't you think?
 
noone said:
A fellow at my gun club says . . .
Click to expand...

Maybe that "fellow" is confused with NRA Highpower. The M16A2 is a popular rifle of choice and has been for nearly 20 years. But it's amazing how many shooters do not know that.:rolleyes:

Ray
 
Pete Wass said:
like trying to race the old boxxy style Yellow Cabs in a Nextel Cup Race and hoping to win. OR----- racing a Pontoon Barge in a Hydroplane race. Probably it is way more appropriate to race Pontoon Boats together, don't you think?
Click to expand...


i dont know....small group with the ar10 is .116. with the 223 is .19x.....
not so bad for a yellow cab....

the guns are quite capable of small groups....we will have a better idea when the 6 beggs is together.

as of now it is operator and trigger limitations.


mike in co
 
AR Accuracy

A while back I played with an AR in .223, and even shot and won some club matches with it. It was a full military H-Bar assembled from unused parts. The rifle proved to be incredibly accurate with a 3 shot group measuring .05". It was not uncommon to put 5 shots into .3".

The AR's design lends itself to accuracy better than any other semi-auto I've seen with these advantages: A gas tube rather than a gas cylinder and piston mounted to the barrel is a huge benefit (doesn't upset the barrel vibes). The hand guard design lends itself to free floating. Since there is no op-rod, barrel contures are not restricted.

The bolt design is really cool. It unloads the locking lugs as it rotates to unlock. Bottom line is that the design is superb. Unless you've owned an AR, and studied how they work, you can't fully appreciate them.

Michael
 
Are Black rifle allowed

With a few minor mods it should be all right.
It just has to make weight and calibers rules.
also it has to be a set up for single shot.
I have seen some with a modified bolt handle on the side with a longer ejection port. The gas tube could be removed to make it single shot.
No muzzle brakes either so you would have to take off the flash hider if it has one.
One more thing . I would have a different style break down pin to open the rifle between relays. The A1 stock should do nicely for the front hand guard.
 
Gerry said:
. I would have a different style break down pin to open the rifle between relays. .
Click to expand...


"splain that one to me...

the stock pin is a push to open, with a retaining pin...so it stays in the stock..not lost...

mike in co
 
Thanks for the input...it all helps. There are a number of us who use them at our club's 600 yard informal "bench rest" matches. Of course we aren't competitive with the 6BR's, but we didn't expect to be. We sure surprise some people with how accurate those black rifles can be though..
 
IBS to allow AR's on a trial basis...

The timing of this thread is a bit ironic. In recent days, the IBS Executive Board approved, on a one-year TRIAL basis, to create an AR class. Clubs will be given the OPTION to allow "black rifles" in ANY IBS shoot (EXCEPT for Nationals of any sort).

Full details are in my President's message for Early Winter 2009 that will be posted very shortly at www.internationalbenchrest.com. The simple version is: Any scope, any trigger, any barrel, can be semi-auto, need to use NRA chamber flag, can use flat forend, need brass catcher, no flash suppressor, may shoot shoulder to shoulder with other classes, but compete SOLELY in AR class. Early responses to the proposal are guardedly positive. Seems like the 1000 yard format offers the greatest hurdles, but less so in the other disciplines.

Not all details are worked out yet, but will be announced at the IBS Annual Meeting on January 16, 2010.

No Hell has not frozen over, nor is it April 1.

The reasons for our support are:

1. It furthers IBS mission of fostering extreme rifle accuracy
2. Introduce new shooters to bench rest shooting and adds new IBS members
3. IBS may become the primary vehicle to showcase the ultimate accuracy of “black rifles”
4. The AR rifle community is an extraordinarily large and active group that should not be ignored
5. New shooters at the matches may gravitate to traditional BR rifles
6. Infuse the IBS and IBS-matches with new enthusiasm
7. Raise the profile of benchrest shooting amongst other serious riflemen

Constructive comments are welcome.

Jeff Stover
IBS President
 
When they were trying to outlaw autoloaders in Australia some single shot rifles built on FN FAL receivers were manufactured, to give the same feel as the battle rifle but meet the restrictions, those were chambered for a shortened version of the .303 British cartridge, shoulder and neck set back by 2mm. That way the rifle could not chamber any military ammunition in use by Australia at that time, but could be handloaded using readily available components.

G L Herter built a few Straightpull conversions of the Garand rifle chambered for his high intensity Ram Magnum cartridges, he chose the Grand action because of its rep for handling up to 120,000 CUP in torture tests.

Using the basic AR15 as a starting point, and with the vast array of custom parts already available, it should be fairly easy to build a tack driver single shot straightpull with free floating heavy barrel in a fairly wide range of calibers. The modular nature of the rifle would allow parts , stocks, or barrels to be switched out with a minimum of tools, and those uppers with milled in scope rails could be used to advantage.

Its always seemed to me that a hammer fired rifle had an advantage over a striker fired rifle all other things equal.
I once repaired and refinished a Revelation singleshot .22 rifle the action of these being a turn bolt single shot revision of a Mossberg autoloader. The design retained the autoloader hammer and trigger mechanism. Trigger pull was remarkably crisp and precise compared to any striker fired rifle in its class.
A straightpull conversion of an autoloader allows for the trigger to be modified to be much lighter than would be prudent for a rifle that would be jostled around by recoil and the reloading cycle of autoloading operation, no chance of doubling that way.
 
Jeff

And we were all amazed that it was snowing in Houston last Friday. (of course, it is a muggy 58 degrees and raining this morning).

Jeff, I guess only time will tell. As was said in Field of Dreams: "Build it, and They Will Come"........jackie
 
and all i have to say...is ......DANG!

this will sorta be like the early days of br. as has been pointed out the ar is a modular(more like spec commonents) rifle. it lends itself to development/experimentation.
no end of the chamberings in the ar15 platform...it has a 7.62x39 variation...which means 22/6 ppc and 22/6 beggs are easy to do.
there will be some whinning for sure cause a 16"/20" chrome lined battle rifle will not shoot with a production varmit version which will not compete with a rifle dedicated purpose built br ar like mine.

let me know when some clubs start shooting them.

yes i'd say the body is finally moving ahead.

question: this is ar15 only, no provision for the ar10 family ?

mike
 
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