harrell measure question

PAUL REVERE said:
TWO QUESTIONS, TWO ANSWERS.

ONE you will have to search on these forums for the answer to the documentation.
it has all been posted here.

TWO.
as i pointed out, not only did jackie schmidt win, he nearly set a new world record( many who saw the targets say he DID set the record).
as i said jackie uses a very expensive scale that weights to to 0.01.

my belief is that since 6ppc shooters, shoot the same basic weight bullet, similar twists, and typically one of three powders,AND thrown or chargemaster'd charges,
that their ammo is all similar .."very good" ammo. so they basically shoot well and someone wins. when a very good shooter shows up with the ability to weigh his powder to better than 0.1, it is IMHO, most likely he will win, as jackie did shooting a 30br in a group match.
NOTICE
i never said 6ppc was not a good round, i never said short range br shooters were not good.
what i will say is i think they could be better..with well weighed charges.
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Mike,

are talking about Jackie's 2010 performance in Midland, TX?? his potential World Record??

that particular shoot was either the first registered match i attended or one of the first. i was there that day shooting 2 benches to Jackie's right, opposite relays.

i'm worried this may irritate you when i say this but....

Jackie was throwing.

Both days.
 
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Boyd Allen said:
Did you notice what powder he was using?
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didn't notice at the time but Jackie later talked about using H4198 that day.

what i was most interested in was all those partner presses lined up in a row.

this pic is from another match, not Midland but that is exactly how i remember it looking that day in July 2010.

 
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I think the powder changes so much during the course of a match its just not feasable. At least from my experience. I know if i had 29.2 preloaded that may work for a couple of relays over a whole weekend. Wish a ppc powder was as stable as those long range powders that never seem to change even driving across the country
 
I believe that extremely sensitive scales are not a good match with conditions found in typical load at the range situations, not not so much because of wind, which can be dealt with , but rather because of vibration. Loading benches may be shared, and even the best are hardly vibration free. As to the need for weighed charges in short range benchrest, I think that the use of Chargemasters has come about because up until recently 133 was what most shooters were dealing with, and when they looked at their variance of thrown charge weighs, and how technique sensitive staying within +- .1 grain is, it was easy to make a change that gave more consistent charges. I say all of this with one caveat. Those who use powders that are easier to throw may see little reason to make this change, and the advent of LT32 will swell the ranks of these shooters, to the extent that it comes into favor for match shooting. It is easy to throw, with rather simple technique, as long as reasonable attention is paid to consistency. Other factors that come into this (IMO) are shooters' ability to keep in tune, and node width. If one is on the edge of a node, charge variance becomes more critical, and if your powder has relatively narrow nodes then it is more likely that you will be on an edge. Friends tell me that LT32 has much broader nodes than 133. I have labored long and hard to learn how to throw 133, and I wish that I could report that it had made some miraculous difference in my results, but unfortunately, powder measures do not read wind flags, or put metal back in worn barrels. Finally, in defense of thrown charges, if you look at the records that Gary Ocock owns, you should know that he throws his charges, usually with powders other than 133.
 
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i've exchanged rather polite private messages with Mike and we are working to find a date for him to come down and shoot with us in Raton.

i've been as accommodating as i can, and i sincerely hope he makes it down.

i'm sure a good time will be had by all.
 
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I can't wait to get advice from Mike in Raton at a real match, not a forum.
There should be plenty of World team members and Hall of Fame members lining up for education from Mike and his friends.
I think I will bring a popcorn machine,
When Mike starts talking to Larry Baggett
It will be one hell of a show.
I can't wait
Todd Tyler
I tried to be nice
 
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Somebody asked me one day..I think it was a day I was doing well - How much powder you putting'? I didn't know so I showed him a case and said "that much". Offered him a drop to go weigh but don't remember if he did or not. Never weighed powder but am not opposed to others doing it. Never shot much stuff other than the 6PPC at 100, 200 and 300 yards either.

Look at it this way...who cares what other folks are doing? If you ain't winning you need to change something or other!
 
It's kind of amazed me that folks are getting their underwear in a twist about how a load performs over a single distance. While I'm inclined to one view, it seems that most agree that you can be somewhat sloppy about what you feed a gun if you're shooting one distance only. Apparently some luminary demonstrated that with a ladder test a decade or so back.

The real problem occurs when you need to shoot over a range of distances. Hereabouts, that can be from 300 to 1000 yards & unless I've missed the boat somewhere, it doesn't work with any elegance when you toss a handful of powder into a case.
 
Wilbur said:
Somebody asked me one day..I think it was a day I was doing well - How much powder you putting'? I didn't know so I showed him a case and said "that much". Offered him a drop to go weigh but don't remember if he did or not. Never weighed powder but am not opposed to others doing it. Never shot much stuff other than the 6PPC at 100, 200 and 300 yards either.

Look at it this way...who cares what other folks are doing? If you ain't winning you need to change something or other!
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Wilber, You are right …. but most old shooters are set in their ways and nothing will change it. I fall into that area but i still keep an open mind and i always try new or different things to shoot smaller, but my sight is the limiting factor now. I still try to make things better and i don't sit there with blinders on. If you don't try it, you will never know…….. Jim O'Hara
 
I really dont see chargemasters at shoots. Maybe im around the wrong crowd like billy stevens, bart sauter, gene bukys, and the like. Maybe we should start using them
 
In Summation

Thanks for the Winners group photo, Aaron. The Men in that photo achieved success by figuring this Sport out themselves. It goes to show that if you,ve got the money the desire and time,anything is possible. Thats what makes this sport interesting to me. There are few absolutes(Undeniable Facts) in this sport, that will always work for each and every participant. Ask ten different people and you’ll likely get ten different answers.

Larry Baggett once told me at a Benchrest Match,when I was asking him some “How to” questions. He politely told me ,”The best answer I can give you is to figure it out yourself”. That answer is finally starting to sink in. I do this Sport for the Fun. My 31 year salaried job ended in 1999. I’ve had ample time to try to figure this Sport out. That hasn’t happened yet and its entirely my fault.

Todd ,thanks for sharing your hands on, real World experience, regarding what works for you in Match Competition.

Your success credentials certainly add validity to your responses.

There is a familiar saying in the Sport of Baseball that goes like this. “You can’t teach a person how to hit if you never played baseball. This quote is applicable to any Sport endeavor.

If you,re new to this game,ask lots of questions but have confidence in your ability to figure it out and don’t be afraid to experiment.


Glenn
 
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That would be Hillario Costa, Larry Costa. He pre-loaded with his favorite load in the middle and went up and down in .1 grains. I'm not sure how far above and below he loaded but he had suitcases full of those little vials. And he won. He used lab grade scales to do his weighing.
And he won and he was on the World Team until this year when health issues kept him from the qualifying matches.
 
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Dusty Stevens said:
Wait til this winter trout.
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I love this stuff! We can text and no one will notice. They are still consumed about how much powder or how to meter, measure or what ever.



Than where those little 6 mm holes show up on their target. Which after all is argued, all is said, is all that matters....
Bill or known as Trout to his friends.
 
Uthink Uknow said:
That would be Hillario Costa, Larry Costa. He pre-loaded with his favorite load in the middle and went up and down in .1 grains. I'm not sure how far above and below he loaded but he had suitcases full of those little vials. And he won. He used lab grade scales to do his weighing.
And he won and he was on the World Team until this year when health issues kept him from the qualifying matches.
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Last I looked Larry is on the team and healthy
 
R44astro
Take a look at post #38 in this thread. I don't see Larry in that picture. I don't care to go any further than that. I'll PM you.
I thought about it and I won't PM you.
 
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