harrell measure question

[Boyd Allen]

Jim,
Did you add an extra zero to the lowest observed weight of a single particle of RL 15 in your last post. I find the idea that it would take 20 of those to make a tenth of a grain a bit difficult to believe.
Boyd

 

[jim1K]

Jim,
Did you add an extra zero to the lowest observed weight of a single particle of RL 15 in your last post. I find the idea that it would take 20 of those to make a tenth of a grain a bit difficult to believe.
Boyd

Boyd, I load all year holding .01, +- .005 with RL-15 ……. the load is 33.300 -33.310…….. .01 and yes RL-15 has kernels of all sizes and as small a .005, i use small ones to hold my standard…… you will never shoot 2" at 1000 with +- .1 loads, too much vertical. ………. jim

 

[James n TN]

James, what scale are you using that that has a resolution of .001 but is only accurate to +-.1? My GD503 is a magnetic force registration and i hold +-.01 with RL-15 and the kernels vary in weight some as low as .005…….. and i can hold +-.01 on this certified scale… jim

Jim,

I have these scales the RCBS chargemaster the DI TR603D and the Sartorius practum 64-1S

The rcbs load cell has a linear tolerance of +/- .1 grn .the 603D is +/- .01 and the 64-1S is +/- .001

I find the RCBS 95% of the time will hold the +/- .1 but occasionally it'll be off as much as .4 and still read spot on. My 603D will hold .03 -.04 so that actual is +/- .02 my 64-1S I have no way to know its true linear tolerance as I don't have a scale that will measure out 4 places in grains.
The only way to read true linear weight is by using a scale that will read the next decimal point out.

 

[Boyd Allen]

Thanks, I have had no experience with that powder, which is why I asked.

 

[James n TN]

Jim,
Did you add an extra zero to the lowest observed weight of a single particle of RL 15 in your last post. I find the idea that it would take 20 of those to make a tenth of a grain a bit difficult to believe.
Boyd

Boyd,

RL15 per kernel depending on which you pic will weigh from .014-.022 grains.

 

[jim1K]

Boyd,

RL15 per kernel depending on which you pic will weigh from .014-.022 grains.

Well i just went down dumped some RL-15 and weighed some .015 isn't hard to find as .01 but low and be hold .005. I ran my weight and checked it right on the money…….. jim

 

[bryan]

After reading MOST of the posts,

A lot of posts refer to 2 or 3 tents accuracy, or variance when throwing charges. I used a barrel tuner and never changed my load. I have used Harrell's, Jones and Bob Dodd's measures, and always rechecked the measure after a yardage by weighing 10 charges. Most were dead on, and I don't recall the total of all 10 ever being over a half grain off. That was h322 powder.
Bryan

 

[jim1K]

A lot of posts refer to 2 or 3 tents accuracy, or variance when throwing charges. I used a barrel tuner and never changed my load. I have used Harrell's, Jones and Bob Dodd's measures, and always rechecked the measure after a yardage by weighing 10 charges. Most were dead on, and I don't recall the total of all 10 ever being over a half grain off. That was h322 powder.
Bryan

What scale are you checking it with? This is the point, most scales used can't resolve .2……. maybe +- .2…….. but .5…… At long range you can't afford most….. it is all or go home… jim

 

[bryan]

Scale

Tanita 1210

 

[bryan]

.5

Ten 28.2 gr charges is 282.0 grains. I was always within a half grain of that. Tickled me pink.
Bryan

 

[James n TN]

A lot of posts refer to 2 or 3 tents accuracy, or variance when throwing charges. I used a barrel tuner and never changed my load. I have used Harrell's, Jones and Bob Dodd's measures, and always rechecked the measure after a yardage by weighing 10 charges. Most were dead on, and I don't recall the total of all 10 ever being over a half grain off. That was h322 powder.
Bryan

You're saying you're dropping charges and every dropped charge is spot on? If you're wanting 28.2 grains that's exactly what your dispenser drops on every charge? Hell if that's the case you have the only one ever made, a Prometheus won't even drop spot on every charge.

 

[K Hope]

Boyd, I load all year holding .01, +- .005 with RL-15 ……. the load is 33.300 -33.310…….. .01

I am not familiar with double base powders or long range shooting envelope requirements; and, I am curious as to your temperature insensitivity.

Ken

 

[jim1K]

I am careful with the gun and ammo in the cold i keep it in the car till time to shoot and in the shade in the heat of summer till i shoot and i don't have issues. Same load all year….. all powders are temperature sensitive……jim

 

[Boyd Allen]

When I refer to a +- number in weights it is the result of weighing each charge in a string that I would have put into a case. As I have mentioned, I do reject some based on feel (lack of crunch). The only time that I average is when determining the weight that a measure setting is throwing, when setting up a measure for a new powder or powder from a new container, as a starting point, before range testing to come up with the measure setting that works the best. I also pay some attention to the height of the powder charge in the case, rethrowing any that look different than the rest. A friend has an ultrasonic cleaner that he has used to clean the insides of his "experienced" cases, and tells me that the height of charges in case necks improved when he cleaned his cases. He started out checking each thrown charge with a .1 scale (as he loaded at matches), and since he has gone to LT32 has discontinued that because of the uniformity of his thrown charges.

 

[jim1K]

When I refer to a +- number in weights it is the result of weighing each charge in a string that I would have put into a case. As I have mentioned, I do reject some based on feel (lack of crunch). The only time that I average is when determining the weight that a measure setting is throwing, when setting up a measure for a new powder or powder from a new container, as a starting point, before range testing to come up with the measure setting that works the best. I also pay some attention to the height of the powder charge in the case, rethrowing any that look different than the rest. A friend has an ultrasonic cleaner that he has used to clean the insides of his "experienced" cases, and tells me that the height of charges in case necks improved when he cleaned his cases. He started out checking each thrown charge with a .1 scale (as he loaded at matches), and since he has gone to LT32 has discontinued that because of the uniformity of his thrown charges.

Boyd, that is how we use to do it, But say if you would do 15 cases at home one set thrown and 15 weighed on a GD503 and see if the the weighed powder shot smaller and more consistent than the thrown charges……… all done at the same time in the same humidity with the weighed charges held to .02……… jim

 

[Boyd Allen]

Jim,
As you know, not too many short range group competitors preload, and this is for good reasons. It seems to me that it would serve little purpose to make comparisons between thrown and weighed loads unless they were on the razors edge of tune for the ambient conditions that they were being shot in. Of course if one had the facilities to weigh the charges to your specified degree of accuracy, just before they were shot, it could be done.

Personally, I believe that my rifle has shown sufficient accuracy with thrown loads (after spending considerable time learning how to throw well) such that I need to spend my time on other issues that I know are enlarging my groups, flag reading, condition that a group is started in, proper use of the sighter target, gun handling....etc.

IMO the best place to do the test that you have suggested would be a top quality shooting tunnel.
Boyd

 

[Carson]

I bought a used harrell measure, it don't have bearing in it, it feels like it is cutting a kernel or two on the bottom of the drop stroke, it looks in great shape, and feels super smooth, but at the bottom of the stroke it cuts a couple of kernels. At matches I've been to most shooters who use these seem to drop their charges smoother than mine is working. The click setting seem postive and smooth. It looks to me their is no way for it not to cut a few kernels on the drop stroke is this normal or should I contact harrells?

Dustin

Maybe it is showing signs of wear?

I'm just a bottom feeder here. I use an RCBS powder measure.

I'm not sure just how close a Harrell is designed to an RCBS but I assume they are similar (Found them opened up).

I just had my RCBS apart to clean out the crud. The key part seemed to me to be the top of the cup that holds the powder and the edge of the body itself that it clips by. I'm thinking good clean, burr free sharp edges are going to meter smoothest. If the top edge of the cup or the body has a big radius or chamfer, I'm thinking your going to get more clipping or crunching.

Then again with mine the bigger the grains the more crunch have just been the way it goes.


P.S. Ha Ha Ha. I just noticed. With mine the cutting isn't a bug, IT'S A FEATURE!

"• Cuts cylindrical powders so a precise charge can be obtained"

http://shop.rcbs.com/Products/Powder-Measures-and-Scales/Powder-Measures/Mechanical/Uniflow%E2%84%A2-Powder-Measure.aspx

Still. Its served me well for a lot of years.

 

[afrench]

2015 Raton match schedule

mr french,
i was just old that CRC(CO RIFLE CLUB) will host the 600/1000yd nationals the week of june 8 thru 12......
i hope we still have a date but most likely i will be shooting those matches...

Mike,

i made some phone calls and here is the 2015 schedule at Raton.

May 23, 24
June 20, 21
July 18, 19 and
Aug. 15, 16

the dates you said you cannot make it are:
May 31
June 6-7, 8-12, 28
Aug 15-16, 30

so, it looks like you're available for all of the except the last match.

my first recommended date is the May 23,24 match, then the July 18,19 match. the June match is usually the railguns and LV or SP (both 10.5lb class).

let me know which one you want to come to and i'll make it happen.

 

[caroby]

Just throw it...

Personally, I believe that my rifle has shown sufficient accuracy with thrown loads (after spending considerable time learning how to throw well) such that I need to spend my time on other issues that I know are enlarging my groups, flag reading, condition that a group is started in, proper use of the sighter target, gun handling....etc.

IMO the best place to do the test that you have suggested would be a top quality shooting tunnel.
Boyd

And..... Yes, yes, yes and yes...
Today I was shooting some new J4 .790 jacketed bullets @ Luther my home range @ 100yds... 10 - 18mph from WSW, SW, SSW, S, SE, SSE, SE, ESE...... Switch and vel change in a hart beat... After serious frustration... Either starting right and finishing wrong OR starting wrong and well once started wrong....Ouch..!

In the end, last 5-shot group went a .280..... Pretty "OK".. But I was happy as I started correctly an finished it... Lotta picking and only the S, SSE condition did I dare shoot, took all 7min to finish...
Powder measure, was just fine.... It's as Boyd said....

Oh, BTW...
The new J4 .790's are make'n GOOD bullets.
I'd rather be watch'n flags as opposed to futzing with a scale to get the last .09 throw across the cases... A tunnel may be..
Long range, may be...
But real deal SR Benchrest... Throw it.
cale

 

[bryan]

My results

Guys, i can only report what I experienced. Maybe I should have chosen my words better, but yes, my drops were very consistent and just assumed others had the same results. I was not averaging.....If you ask another competitor what load he is shooting, he will usually lie to you, or if he really wants to help, he'll give you a range. Nothing more, cause every rifle and every shooter is different. Todd said it best when he talked about going up or down a click or two.....
As for me, I had enough other issues to deal with-gun handling, condition starting the group ad nauseoum, so I was glad to have a consistent drop, a good bullet, and a great gunsmith to help take up some of the slack.
The low frequency waves the government is putting out may well be a factor in all this, but I never could bring myself to wear a tinfoil hat to provide proof to those who doubt it.
OK?
Bryan