harrell measure question

jim1K said:
I am careful with the gun and ammo in the cold i keep it in the car till time to shoot and in the shade in the heat of summer till i shoot and i don't have issues. Same load all year….. all powders are temperature sensitive……jim
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I do not see how it is possible to get powder insensitivity by - being careful. Start temperature and power temperature over the entire day are constantly changing, yours must be caliber specific; it is really not clear to me how such a small weight change will affect performance but a 20F + change will not.

Ken
 
K Hope said:
I do not see how it is possible to get powder insensitivity by - being careful. Start temperature and power temperature over the entire day are constantly changing, yours must be caliber specific; it is really not clear to me how such a small weight change will affect performance but a 20F + change will not.

Ken
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You don't get it…….. i don't leave the loaded rounds cook in the sun or the chamber ….. Or when it is cold, don't let the gun or ammo lay in the cold…….I don't have a problem so powder sensitivity or don't seem to, same load all year……. i look on the wall and i see proof i'm right………. jim
 
jim1K said:
You don't get it…….. i don't leave the loaded rounds cook in the sun or the chamber ….. Or when it is cold, don't let the gun or ammo lay in the cold…….I don't have a problem so powder sensitivity or don't seem to, same load all year……. i look on the wall and i see proof i'm right………. jim
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You may be correct………… as I don’t have much proof :). But as I understand it powder composition, grain configuration and caliber will all influence temperature sensitivity and what works for you will not necessarily work for all.

Ken
 
I think we can all agree here that even though there are some similarities between short range and long range BR, they are completely different animals. What works or is less of an influence to agging ability at 100 and 200 yards may or may not work at 600 or 1000.

For example, Jim1K has a developed a method that is successful in 1000 yard competition, for him. For those that are unaware, Jim1K is James O’Hara. Jim set something like 5 or 6 World records in 2 years at 1000 yards doing exactly what he is talking about on this thread.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/04/james-ohara-mr-consistent-sets-1000-yard-agg-records/

Personally, I want to hear from those that are at the top of the game in competition. There aren’t many competitors that’ll shoot you straight, and I have tremendous respect for those that do. Of those that do, we have an even smaller number that are willing come on here and share with guys like myself, who are still trying to figure out what is important and what isn’t.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the talks on theory as much as the next guy. But it seems like the guys that are winning, in competition, have to defend their posts and methods to a few that are theorists and/or just want to argue.
 
Well..

If you don't have a winning rifle it doesn't make any difference how you measure the powder. Why would you want to take the time to weigh each charge just to place mid-pack over and over?
 
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Wilbur said:
If you don't have a winning rifle it doesn't make any difference how you measure the powder. Why would you want to take the time to weigh each charge just to place mid-pack (over and over)?
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Chief Cook, for some folks, "plac[ing] mid-pack (over and over)" would be an accomplishment. :) :)
 
Wilbur said:
If you don't have a winning rifle it doesn't make any difference how you measure the powder. Why would you want to take the time to weigh each charge just to place mid-pack over and over?
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Wilber, how will you ever know, unless you eliminate the variables, some may not be able to drop powder to hold a .1……. You can win a match pre loaded…. or like Larry does it with the vials ….. jim
 
Jim,
In short range group benchrest, what percentage of matches do you think are won preloaded? IMO, if one wants to go to the trouble, pre-weighed would have the advantages of being able to change a load during an event, as well as the precision that is normally only available pre-loading. I don't think that anyone is against the highest level of charge weight accuracy, for this application, but rather I think that many think that beyond a certain point, any advantage gets lost in the noise.
Boyd
 
Boyd Allen said:
Jim,
In short range group benchrest, what percentage of matches do you think are won preloaded? IMO, if one wants to go to the trouble, pre-weighed would have the advantages of being able to change a load during an event, as well as the precision that is normally only available pre-loading. I don't think that anyone is against the highest level of charge weight accuracy, for this application, but rather I think that many think that beyond a certain point, any advantage gets lost in the noise.
Boyd
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I have only been shooting point blank benchrest for two years (point blank makes it sound easy). I have been to about 26 matches, gone a lot. I am sure it happens, but I have never seen anyone pre load let alone win pre loading (kind of obvious). I have seen winners who threw their powder and those who weigh. I would say more throw than weigh though. I have watched someone win in the morning weighing their powder, then the afternoon comes and they stumble, next thing they are throwing. Or vice versa. Give me a great barrel and good technique any day and a scope that ain't broke, and the magic bullet, and the honey hole and so on!
Bill
 
Boyd Allen said:
Jim,
In short range group benchrest, what percentage of matches do you think are won preloaded? IMO, if one wants to go to the trouble, pre-weighed would have the advantages of being able to change a load during an event, as well as the precision that is normally only available pre-loading. I don't think that anyone is against the highest level of charge weight accuracy, for this application, but rather I think that many think that beyond a certain point, any advantage gets lost in the noise.
Boyd
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Boyd, What i'm saying they could as i do at home and see if they have a mid pack set up ……. It just maybe on how they load …… by the way i went to my first short range match and won……… pre loaded ……. so don't hand me that stuff……… jim
 
Score………. with a borrowed gun with an average barrel and a lot group shooter were there…………. jim
 
Congratulations on the win. Now go back and read the post that you said was an attempt to hand you something. I said group. It was intentional. As I understand it, preloading, for score, especially when shooting 30 BRs, which commonly, if for VFS (which has as I understand it has a 13.5# weight limit), is common, and as I understand it, works well. A group match, where 10.5# 6PPCs are the rule, with a big swing in temperature, and humidity over the weekend, when the top aggs. are in the teens is, IMO, another matter. I was not trying to hand you anything. We were talking about different things...apples and oranges.
 
Jim you should go to some matches and campaign your technique. I can assure you we're all ears and eyes even though on here it appears we're stubborn. This is not a good representation of actual short range shooters.
 
Short range group or point blank is the hardest thing I have ever tried in my 60 some years. When I get tied of getting beat I'll switch to score and longer yardages.
Bill
 
Boyd Allen said:
Congratulations on the win. Now go back and read the post that you said was an attempt to hand you something. I said group. It was intentional. As I understand it, preloading, for score, especially when shooting 30 BRs, which commonly, if for VFS (which has as I understand it has a 13.5# weight limit), is common, and as I understand it, works well. A group match, where 10.5# 6PPCs are the rule, with a big swing in temperature, and humidity over the weekend, when the top aggs. are in the teens is, IMO, another matter. I was not trying to hand you anything. We were talking about different things...apples and oranges.
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Boyd, This was a long time before the the 30 BR. was around. It was a PPC and was a light gun i never had a heavy,10.5 if i remember right it was when nobody even full length sized, some threw them away at the end of the match. My first gun was not a middle of the pack gun but i didn't know what i had, i traded it to my buddy who barreled it for me for left hand components after loosing my sighting my right eye. He went on to win the 100 yd. score national with it. It shot the same load al the time and it was 8208 with 66.5 gr. Short bullets flat base and boat tails for 2-300. The reason i Quit short range is i had to come out of the gun to see the flags … everybody was right handed… It took a long time to get back into it and that is when i started long range and only range flags so now a level playing field…….. jim
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Jim you should go to some matches and campaign your technique. I can assure you we're all ears and eyes even though on here it appears we're stubborn. This is not a good representation of actual short range shooters.
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Dusty, I know better than that, I anneal and a couple of years ago at the SS at Kelblys all the big guns were laughing about it. I will tell you that the way you load at short range is crude compared to being successful at long range. I loaded that way and was in the mid to bottom of the pack. The only thing i can say remains the same is good bench manners and it ends there………… jim
 
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