what Cal

[WINMOD70]

Tod we use a spotter because we shoot across a large canyon.I have 800,1200 Leica's a Wild and a Barr and Stroud.The distance really isn't a problem because we have been hunting there for many many years now and when we get on our benches every distance has its own gun.I was trying to respond to the original poster more or less.
Our biggest enemy is a cross wind.It will push our bullets off course and that means a spooked animal and no second shot.
Roger"The Expiper"Amos is coming out this summer for a match/deer hunt and I'm sure when he sees how we do it he can vouch its alot of work for a very slim chance.
If you go past 1000 yards a guy with a good eye makes all the difference in the world.
Lynn

Another consideration to long range shooting is time lapse, a free roaming animal browsing a pasture can take one step during the time of flight and turn a heart shot until a gut shot; 300 yards was the limit used by most hunters for such reasons for years, I think it is still a good rule, JMHO.

 

[PPP MMM]

Lynn-this is exactly what I'm about

Tod we use a spotter because we shoot across a large canyon.I have 800,1200 Leica's a Wild and a Barr and Stroud.The distance really isn't a problem because we have been hunting there for many many years now and when we get on our benches every distance has its own gun.I was trying to respond to the original poster more or less.
Our biggest enemy is a cross wind.It will push our bullets off course and that means a spooked animal and no second shot.
Roger"The Expiper"Amos is coming out this summer for a match/deer hunt and I'm sure when he sees how we do it he can vouch its alot of work for a very slim chance.
If you go past 1000 yards a guy with a good eye makes all the difference in the world.
Lynn

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I could shoot a deer passing through my farm 10 times per year. I could drive to a friends farm 100km away and shoot from his kitchen window at a hird of 50-80 heads at 50 meters away at 5-6am, while they were daily destroying his cabbages. Despate the damage he never shot a deer unless someone wanted it to eat it. In the same time I had friends who could go to the friend and shoot a deer from his kitchen window, instead they would go and pay for a Deer permit and went to the forest on foot to TRACK/HUNT a deer and some of them didn't even see a deer in the forest for 20years, but they wouldn't do it othervise. This is what I call a GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP WITH RESPECT.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Your type of what you call "hunting" is nothing more than an ego driven gamble (will I hit or will I miss?) of an brainless imbecile, and where there is a one imbecile, the other imbecile(s) is not too far away.

Shoot well
Peter

 

[Tod Soeby]

Another consideration to long range shooting is time lapse, a free roaming animal browsing a pasture can take one step during the time of flight and turn a heart shot until a gut shot; 300 yards was the limit used by most hunters for such reasons for years, I think it is still a good rule, JMHO.

Taking a long range shot at an animal isn't a fast thing...after setup, which takes a couple of minuets, we watch, look and listen. Wind, temp, baro, dial ups, wind, recheck distance, wind, wind, ect... How active is the animal? Is he/she alone, or in a group? Now...if it is fairly active and is moving/ feeding, we don't shoot. Watch a buck for 15-20 min, and you get a feeling for when he is going to take a step. If it's overly windy for the distance, we don't shoot. If there is no snow for tracking, and I am alone (no spotter), I don't shoot. If he is in a heard, I don't shoot without a spotter. Ect .....


If you want to talk about the uninformed about LR hunting. It's people who have responded negatively, with a lot of self-righteous sounding comments to this post, that make the LR hunter seem like a crass, un-sportsman like, reckless, prick. You must just assume that if we have the equipment, talent and a good sight picture, that we take the shot. The statement about giving the anti's "ammunition" against us is truly insane. The tree hugger's and Bambi lovers of the world don't care how far away the animal is. To close, to far.....there is no just right. TO THE GUY WHO ONLY SHOOTS WHEN HE IS 99.99% SURE OF A KILL, Do you think that they want you to kill something 99.99% of the time you pull the trigger......HELL NO!! They hope your friggen gun explodes, taking the rest of the hunting world with you!!!!

I am sorry about the rant. If I offended anybody, I'm sure you can find a group somewhere trying to ban freedom of speech to help you sue me and take away my birthday. By looking at the original post, the guy was new that day. To tell him that this is probably the wrong place for him to post was spot on. To preach to him your personal point of view is good also, if it is going to help him with his question. But to chastise him about the ethics of something. If you feel that strongly against LR hunting, then it's you who is on the wrong form. Go to one of the long range hunting forms. There will be plenty of opportunity's to "spread the word" there.

Just a few of my thoughts,
TOD

 

[CHRIS.T]

Peter,none of my business but reread the posts in this thread,see who is name calling and carrying on,it looks and sounds very immature dont you agree.

Regards Chris.

 

[PPP MMM]

Tod

You don't need to feel bad that you may had offended me at all. Just because I don't agree with you, Lynn or anybody else who would take a long shot (1K) or whereabouts just to see if they can hit or miss an animal it doesn't mean that I'll be offended by your comments or opinions. I may not like what you'r doing, but I'm not trying to stop you from duing it. There is enough of those bastards around the Globe who are trying very hard to even stop me the (99.99%/250metre max..375H&H killer) or even the .22 paper hole poppers.
I've seen people taking .22 bolt action loaded with subsonic target ammo to serve as a backup gun on herds of pigs. Imbeciles, but I'm not trying to stop them. I've seen animals with arrows through their bodies and so on. Injured animal found by a member of the not shooting community is always a bad news. However you all do and shoot as you wish and I'll do the same. If we all don't agree, so be it. I personally don't care,I was brought up not to be intimidated by no one, so I call it as I see it regardless of the consequences. If it's here, dirrectly to your face, to the Queen, Bush, Putin whoever he/she may be.

Shoot well
Peter

 

[ballistic64]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to TRACK/HUNT a deer and some of them didn't even see a deer in the forest for 20years, but they wouldn't do it othervise. This is what I call a GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP WITH RESPECT.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The Barta way!

 

[Lynn]

Ppp Mmm

Peter I shot a roe deer in Germany at 250 yards and freaked everybody out.They don't shoot past 80 yards normaly and had never seen it done.They mostly hunt at night on the snow and 35-50 yard is typical.
I didn't call them imbeciles they just don't make long shots.
If your shooting a 375 H-H I too wouldn't shoot past 150 yards.I used to use a 25-35 and my shots were very limited with it as well.
Longrange hunting isn't for everyone but lke a very old skydiver once told me-Your mind is like a parachute--It only works when open.
Lynn

 

[Lynn]

WinMod70

Another consideration to long range shooting is time lapse, a free roaming animal browsing a pasture can take one step during the time of flight and turn a heart shot until a gut shot; 300 yards was the limit used by most hunters for such reasons for years, I think it is still a good rule, JMHO.

WinMod70
I follow that rule most of the time myself.We are allowed 2 bucks per year and our longest buck last year was less than 650 yards.The rest were shot much closer.If I hunt brushy terrain my shots are limited.If I hunt from my raft most of my shots are limited.
If you read my first post again you will see we hunt a spot that the closest possible shot is just shy of 300 yards.We set up long before sunrise and basicaly have a 1 hour window in which to shoot from.
In the western part of the country you will get very few shots at under 150 yards.You do get them but you don't get many on a good buck.If all I was interested in was forked horns I wouldn't need to leave camp.
Lynn

 

[AlanF]

...Do not rush the shot.If you got things right on the rock or bush you will most likely hit the deer...

This is what I object to - this sort of advice to a new shooter. This implies a better than even chance of hitting the deer is okay. So if it is hit, what then chance of killing it? - definitely much less.

Alan

 

[Lynn]

Alan F

Alan you must live a dream world.Were I live most of the hunters can't hit a 100 yard target on there first shot.They drive around in there air conditioned pick-up truck and shoot out of a window.If the deer drops on shot one they may go over and pick it up.They rarely go check.

I suppose the hunters were you reside only make brain and heart shots 100% of the time or they don't fire?

For someone like yourself to post such rubbish is absurd at best and downright ludricrous.

The original poster came to a 1000 yard forum seeking advice from 1000 yard shooters.He received both ends of the spectrum.If you can show me any hunter who gets 100% heart shots of every buck I'll sell you some ocean front property in Arizona.

Just come out and say you don't like longrange hunting and quit coming up with BS.

I have yet to lose a deer hit at longrange.
Lynn

 

[AlanF]

Lynn,

I don't like longrange hunting. And it shouldn't be called hunting - most of the natural defences of the animals are by-passed. I don't believe what you say about most hunters in your area, and if you've done as much of this type of shooting as you say, I don't believe you've never lost a deer which was hit.

Further, I don't agree with this subject being discussed on benchrest.com let alone defended. All shooting sports should stick together against the anti-gun lobby, but there is no way I will ever defend what you espouse. Why don't you do us all a favour, and confine your discussion on this subject to appropriate websites. The less heard about it the better.

Alan

 

[Lynn]

Alan F

I don't like longrange hunting.

Well atleast your true colors are now flying and not some BS like you were talkig earlier.

And it shouldn't be called hunting

I suggest you start your own dictionary and give whatever meaning you want to the words in it.On this side of the pond we are allowed to hunt longrange if we choose to.
Knowing how your gun laws are were you live I'd stop giving us advice over here.

I don't believe what you say about most hunters in your area
I live in California and if you don't believe the stories about Californians that is your problem.We are world renowned.

and if you've done as much of this type of shooting as you say, I don't believe you've never lost a deer which was hit.

You didn't read any of my posts did you.You instead chose to fly off the handle because it better suited your "CAUSE". I have never lost a deer hit at longrange and that is fact.I have lost 2 deer and they were both hit under 300 yards.

Further, I don't agree with this subject being discussed on benchrest.com let alone defended.

We finaly agree on something.The original poster can go to www.longrangehunting.com and enjoy freedom of speech.

All shooting sports should stick together against the anti-gun lobby, but there is no way I will ever defend what you espouse.

That is the definition of being a hypocrit.

Why don't you do us all a favour, and confine your discussion on this subject to appropriate websites.

Alan maybe you should ask Wilbur if he wants you appointed board moderator.

The less heard about it the better.

Alan again your true colors are shining through.
Lynn

 

[ballistic64]

For or against,ethical or unethical,aquiring a big game license permits you to persue game animals in accordance with the law how ever you choose.Is hunting with dogs unethical? How about hunting over a bait? The use of decoys? The use of game calls? Do these methods detract from hunting because they overcome a game animals defenses? How much senseless legislation has to be created to impose a standard of ethics on ones persuit of happiness/enjoyment?

 

[AlanF]

Lynn,

I don't enjoy saying what I said - the reason I did it was in the interests of the future survival of shooting sports generally. What happens in the US, particularly when it is discussed publicly on the internet, affects our sport everywhere.

Alan

 

[Kodzoff]

Long range deer hunting

Everyone's definition of long range is different. Up here in the soggy now frozen north, we hunt black tail deer (really small deer) in the woods, dense cover with the occational open muskegg and about 150 yds. is about as far as you can see to get a shot. I shoot with a Ruger 338mag (mostly to protect myself from the occational still awake brown bear, those things are quite big. you know) and due to the over gun I take head shots only (I'm a meat hunter) harvest on adverage 2 to 4 deer a year (we hunt either gender - taste 3 year old dry does are a favorite (some might consider that bad sportmanship too, but there are pleanty of deer and the gov't thinks its a good idea to harvest both). On the beach, however, its a different story. With snow cover as a backdrop, so you can actually see the deer agaist a forrested background, you might be able to reliably see a deer 1000 yds off, but we always stalk them to within shooting range. For me, that has been about 200 yds at most because I shoot with an old reliable 3 power fixed leupold scope because further out I can't pick out the head - neck reliably and would have to shoot for the body and risk wasting a bunch of meat - I hate blood shot backstrap! Last year I built a new long range deer rifle for beach shooting. It is a Rem 700 short action, blueprinted, kreiger barrel 1:8 in HS precision stock and Harris short bipod, 243 winchester match chamber throated for VLD 100 Plus gr. bullets. Good head shots kill black tail deer reliably with almost any centerfire cartridge. Smithed and stocked it myself. Scoped it with Nightforce 3.5x15 NSX scope. After load development off bipod bench or prone shot reliably .5 moa at out to 400 yds. I use a laser rangefinder and now have reliable zeros to 450. Scope is good enough on full power to accurately see head shot placement; however, when I tested it in winter beach conditions with wind and rain or snow falling a couple of things happened. First, my very good rangefinder had a bit of trouble with snow, rain and fog and I frequently resorted to the old optical ranging using the scope reticle, which was OK since out to 450, 50 or so either way is no big deal, not so at 1000. Next, the wind. Granted, I was not shooting a 338 Lapua, (I hate shooting the damn 338 win mag.)but I've shot enough high power at 600 to dope a little, and my practice at paper (actually cardboard) deer at 400 acrosss the beach humbled me greatly enough to think that even with this new rig and head shots, 400 would be my personal max. Why not, if I cannot get from 1000 to 400 "hunting" before I shoot a deer shame on me, I need more "hunting skills", not shooting skills. Remember, a Sitka Blacktail deer head is a 4-6" target, likely moving a little. At 400 yards, making a clean head shot is about all I would risk, because if I miss I ruin meat or loose a good animal to the woods to die for nothing. Maybe you beanfield heart shooting bleedem' to death hunters like it further out, but 400 yds. is my personal head shot only limit, and 300 is better still. BTW, we have to pack the gun in and that rifle I built weighs a bunch. So, if you hunt in the open country type want a real challenge, spend a few days hunting the timber of the Southeast Alaska forrests, over some of the roughest terrain you'll ever walk, climb and stumble, and you will not need too kill a deer at 1000 yrds to think you had fun. Regards, Chuck

 

[Lynn]

Alan F

Alan you rarely see me post abpout anything besides 6mm and 30 caliber unless its about brass or a good place to buy something.I don't dislike 22,6.5,270,284 or 338 questions at all but I don't shoot them in competition so I don't respond to them.
If you don't like longrange deer hunting simply don't post.The way these forums work is if a subject gets no attention it drops of to the second page very quickly.By yourself and the other 17 negative responses and the 10 rebuttals you have kept the topic at the top of the forum for way too long.
BountyHunter PM'ed the original poster and I'm sure gave him a GREAT website or two to visit.Left alone this thread would have soon disappeared.It hasn't because people who think they should judge what others choose to do as right or wrong have kept it alive.
Lynn

 

[PPP MMM]

Something what I can't get it here

is that someone can be so dumb and have no brain to be able to realise that any animal ( not just a deer) if needs to be shot should be killed as quickly as possible. On any forum. My restocked 602 ZKK.375H&H firing 300gr Sierra SPBT with .5BC at 2630fps. from rest it would shoot 5 shots into 30-35mm circle at 100metres. My 28" straight barreled 300WM firing 200gr.Sierra SPBT with .56BC at 2900fps. would shoot 5 shots into a 20-25mm circle at 100metres. Not a benchrest accuracy by any means, but I don't use any of the benchrest accuracy techniques, I use a powder thrower after the charge is weighted for all 100rounds at one time. No trickling, the powder goes straight into the case.These loads ballistics are definitely not limited to 250metres.( 275 yards) by any means. The only reason I call the quits at 250metres is that after that distance in my realistic mind I can't guarantee 99.99% hit and clean kill anymore. Yes a pull the trigger only when the head or the heart can be hit 99.99%. I never had to finnish a wounded animal. On the paper target I can double the distance and still have a good chance of "hitting and killing the animal", but that's only a paper and it always be a paper target only.To me I have no urge to kill at any costs and I only kill when I have to. If I happen to be an imbecile to some of you by applying my own philosophy that's fine, but remember the same applies both ways.

Shoot well
Peter

 

[Lynn]

Ppp Mmm

Peter click on this link www.dragoman.4t.com It is a picture of my old deer hunting rifle.It shoots a 200 gr Sierra .565 bc bullet into 4.625 inches at 1,000 yards for 10 shots at 3350 fps.
I can't see how someone can come on a forum such as this and be an imbecile with no brain and no sense at all as to mention a 375 H-H as a longrange deer gun.
Peter be a smart hunter not a dumb one and use a 50 BMG with 245 grains of VV20N29 and a 800 gr monolithic borerider with bc 1.118 at 2700 fps.A imbecile without brain at all can see it has more energy at 1,000 yards than your 375 H-H has at muzzle.Surely you are not imbecile or dumb guy right? Maybe you only hunt rascaly rabbits with such imbecile gun correct? I think smart hunter with brain no use imbecile gun with no power right.
Lynn

 

[oneflyer]

Calm down

Let's not get into character assasination here. The long range hunters I know- I being one of them- use rifles of benchrest quality, range finders of high quality and can hit a target at the range they choose. They never hunt alone and will go whatever lengths it takes to get the animal they kill. I can say without qualification that they are better at killing an animal at long range than most hunters do at closer ranges and with a bow. How many of you have been to the range and watched a "hunter" site in his hunting rifle, luckily hitting that "pie plate" and getting up from the bench and announcing that "that's good enough". I can't count the number of mortally wounded deer I've found in the woods after hunting season is over from these well qualified "hunters". I can say that I have never been long range hunting where a wounded animal has not been recovered. Long range hunting has its place as well as other forms of hunting. Those that don't like it are uninformed. It just seems to be "unfair", or "unethical". Before you judge someones methods "walk a mile in their moccasins".

 

[WINMOD70]

Taking a long range shot at an animal isn't a fast thing...after setup, which takes a couple of minuets, we watch, look and listen. Wind, temp, baro, dial ups, wind, recheck distance, wind, wind, ect... How active is the animal? Is he/she alone, or in a group? Now...if it is fairly active and is moving/ feeding, we don't shoot. Watch a buck for 15-20 min, and you get a feeling for when he is going to take a step. If it's overly windy for the distance, we don't shoot. If there is no snow for tracking, and I am alone (no spotter), I don't shoot. If he is in a heard, I don't shoot without a spotter. Ect .....


If you want to talk about the uninformed about LR hunting. It's people who have responded negatively, with a lot of self-righteous sounding comments to this post, that make the LR hunter seem like a crass, un-sportsman like, reckless, prick. You must just assume that if we have the equipment, talent and a good sight picture, that we take the shot. The statement about giving the anti's "ammunition" against us is truly insane. The tree hugger's and Bambi lovers of the world don't care how far away the animal is. To close, to far.....there is no just right. TO THE GUY WHO ONLY SHOOTS WHEN HE IS 99.99% SURE OF A KILL, Do you think that they want you to kill something 99.99% of the time you pull the trigger......HELL NO!! They hope your friggen gun explodes, taking the rest of the hunting world with you!!!!

I am sorry about the rant. If I offended anybody, I'm sure you can find a group somewhere trying to ban freedom of speech to help you sue me and take away my birthday. By looking at the original post, the guy was new that day. To tell him that this is probably the wrong place for him to post was spot on. To preach to him your personal point of view is good also, if it is going to help him with his question. But to chastise him about the ethics of something. If you feel that strongly against LR hunting, then it's you who is on the wrong form. Go to one of the long range hunting forms. There will be plenty of opportunity's to "spread the word" there.

Just a few of my thoughts,
TOD

Not to pick on you but where does fair chase come in with this long range "hunting". To me an animal being shot at in the 1000 yard range is nothing more than shooting pigs in a pen; the natural defenses of the animal can not save itself in this circumstance, JMHO.