Professional Shooting League

Thank you dan

Dan,

My hat is off to you. I am sure this post may cause a stir but here goes. I shoot RF mostly in the off season from 100,200,600 CF. However I may change my priorities considering this new opportunity. I do not have a sporter and will never have one. I will not compete in Sporter because I think it is fundamentaly flawed from its origional intent. I know the sporter class was intended to attract new shooters (squirrel rifles) but we all know the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The sporter class is quite possibly the most expensive and competitive classes in any organization. This has proven to be a prohibative factor in attracting new shooters. I understand the other side of the debate as no one wants a 3000.00 squirrel rifle in the closet. Your plan is outstanding considering all the major organizations have a HG or Unlimited class ie ONE RIFLE. You have not excluded anyone form shooting with your origional format. RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG...shoot a sporter, 10.5, 13.5, UL. I have had several shooters contact me in the last few days
that are willing to compete with the existing equipment they have or are interested in building a true unlimited rifle based on the possible winnings. Thank you very much for this opportunity. What you have put together here is the shot in the arm benchrest needed. I can only hope that the CF crowd will take your lead and get their part of the sport moving in such a positive direction.

Best regards,

Brian Moore
 
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Trap shooter

Dan:

You could set up different chasses for shooters similar to trap shooting.
Based on proven skill such as aggregate or average. Trap has the following classifications:
98% and over Class AAA
96% and under 98% Class AA
94% and under 96% Class A
93% and under 94% Class B
90% and under 93% Class C
Under 90% Class D

In theory shooters of the same class compete against each other in tournaments for trophies and prizes. However, you must have so many targets or matches to obtain a classification. Shooters must shoot Class A if they have shot less than 50 ARA targets.
If a Class B shooter wins a match with a 2200 aggregate then the shooter will be re-classified as a Class A shooter and must shoot a minimum of 50 targets to be re-classified to a lower classification.

Just an example:
2100 and over aggregate Class A
2000 but less than 2100 Class B
1900 but less than 2000 Class C
Under1800 Class D

All shooter must shoot a minimum of 50 targets to be re-classified.

Just some Ideals to put on the table????????????? :)
 
Dan,
Great idea. Congrats in taking the steps to make it happen.
No classes, no handicaps, best score wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Takecare Kevin Kunkle
 
I like it.

Dan
I like your idea. I also like the idea of Open Class winner take all. No hadicapping no arranging rules where "we all can be winners" just straight up...Best Man Wins. If you want to shoot a Sporter fine... but no rule bending to make it a level playing field.This is not taking anything away from current benchrest but merely adding another competion to it. Anyway...great idea Dan.
 
M. Fred,

Are you familiar with the term "sandbagging" as it pertains to trap and skeet? Handicapping based upon your skill level is a great idea in theory, but it simply didn't work in trap & skeet. A certain group of shooters would always shoot below their skill levels either intentionally or otherwise at smaller shoots to lower their handicap then at the big money shoots they would show up and shoot lights out to take home the big purses. Trap & skeet also had their "professional" shooters, also known as industry shooters, the ones who worked for Remington, Winchester, etc.
 
Sandbagger

:Ken:

Good point on sandbaggers. We have a State east of here that is famous for their sandbaggers. Especially, the short yardage handicap guys. Entirely to difficult to control. :eek:
 
I just got home from a weekend of shooting, and I was happy to see all of the posts.

Carp,
I would love to have a match in Indiana, but for an outdoor match we need at least 30 benches. I do not know of any in Indiana. For indoor matches we have Piney Hill and Rocky River. I do not know of any other indoor ranges that cater to rimfire. The outdoor matches are limited by facilities. Hopefully we will have some big crowds at these matches, and we do not want to shoot 5 relays. Hopefully this PSL series will grow and produce enough income for ranges to expand. Then we will be able to shoot at many different locations.

Don,
A sporter class would be good, but for right now I want to have a large payout. If we had a sporter class, we would have to split the money up between sporter and Unlimited or make it mandatory for everyone to shoot sporter. That would limit some people. Not everyone shoots sporters. A sporter class is definitely something I would like in the future.

LR Campus,
rail guns are fine. It must be .22lr, and you can not attach it to the bench.

B Moore,
I am glad to here from some of the centerfire shooters. I am really hoping this money will pull some centerfire shooters over into rimfire. I would also like to expand this to centerfire matches possibly one day, but let me get this going with rimfire first. We will worry about expanding once we get this one down.

M Fred,
classifications are something to consider. We are working on some different ideas to attract more shooters. In order for the PSL to be successful, we must have large numbers of shooters. So, we need something to attract those that do not end up in the money.

We really need advertisers. If anyone has any ties or connections with some advertising money, please contact me. If we can get some advertising money coming in, we can increase the size of the purse. We need to get advertising from outside of the shooting industry. We are advertising to males from age 30 to 80, so any company wanting to sell their products to this group is a possiblity.

Thank you for all of the great comments!
 
Holton Gun and Bow in Holton Michigan has 30 benches. It would be a great place for a PSl Series match in the mid west. They hold a lot of centerfire rejonal matches there and have some very tricky conditions to shoot in.Bill Wheeler is the match director and has held some great ARA matches.They have camping and motels close by. I am sure we could get Billl and the club to at least think about it.

MW:D
 
Don,

I have rethought what I said earlier and I have edited the post. If 2 competitors like Weaver and Sightron both want to advertise, they will be able too. We will just make sure they do not have their booth set up right next to one another.

Mike,

Michigan would be a good place to shoot. We will have to look at that for 2010.
 
Some midwest upper midwest would be cool. There are a lot of shooters up here that could compete at any level, but 1100 miles (2200 RT) is a bit far for a working guy.
 
I have not been following this thread but thought I would mention something.
I assume Since 90% of the benchrest organizations in the world use “Best Edge” scoring you would use this criterion instead of “Worst Edge”?
Of course you could make this an ARA Only “Professional Shooting League” and use “Worst Edge” scoring. :eek:
 
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I guess pretty much a circle is a circle and a dot a dot and the measurement of shooting ability would be the same no matter what. Just the number would be different. But this is a tough target at least in relation to get a high score. It's hard to say how an ARA score would translate, but if you assume the dot would be the same size as an IR 50/50 dot, an IR score of 250-10X target would translate to about a 1750 on this target. That is, if I'm looking at the scoring correctly.
 
Just Like NASCAR

I like the NASCAR comparison. Let's make this just like NASCAR! We can get big gun company sponsorship (Remington, Winchester, Browning, Ruger, etc) and have our custom guns emblazend with their logos so the average Joe will identify our success with what they may be carrying shooting squirrels. By just paying a fee to the Organization, a Turbo Custom smited by Meyers could become a Winchester. A Hall Custom by Leger could become a Ruger. All we would have to do is just stick a logo on it and maybe we could put some sticker on it to kinda make it look like a Ruger varmit rifle. By getting long established gun mfgs. involved you would have an instant fan base. "Why looky what Bob Collins did shooting his Winchester rifle (spitting chew juice). Yup why I told ya thaze waz the bestest shootin' rifle they is." And if Bob Collins got sponsorship by Eley, I'm sure no one would think he was getting the best lots of ammo either. Naa, never happen, nobody would say that. :rolleyes:

And just like Bass fisherman get sponsored by boat mfgs. we could get sponsorship from whatever make of car or truck that we drive to the shoots. "If DJ Hepler drives a Chevy truck to his shoots, why that's what I'm gonna buy to drive to my shoots."

Yup, let's go professional just like NASCAR and Bass Fishin'. Great idea. :eek: :D
 
Great Idea

Well I think it's a great idea and my hope is it brings attention to the sport and helps bring new shooters to the benches. Being a new shooter, first year benchrest, the one thing that surprised me is the few shooters who participate. I've seen people talk about the cost, but heck look what it cost to do anything sport wise anymore. My thoughts are that folks just don't know about it. Heck I stumbled upon it on the internet. I think that there's a large untapped group, guys over 50, who have worked hard all their lives and finally have some extra money in their pockets. I'm not in advertising but have some ideas that may help and of course will share them with Dan.

As one person stated you have to crawl before you walk and Dan's taking his time, and money to try and make this work. As already mentioned facilities that can accommodate larger crowds are needed, clean restrooms so wives will tag along.

I'd like to see something like they do in golf and bowling where they have a Pro-Am and people can talk to the shooters and get a chance to shoot a target. Work with the clubs to combine Dan's events with ones they are having. Have a kids event the night before where the kids can shoot, have some targets setup at 25 yards for them and talk about guns and gun safety can be provided. There's so much that can be done through this that could help the sport. Try to get some of the manufactures and suppliers to run a small add in local newspapers within 50-60 miles of the event in the sports section. Now, if you can get a large outdoor outfit like Bass Pro Shop, Cabela's to put a link on their website it would definitely bring attention to the sport.

One example that I've seen in more recent years is the different fishing Redfish Tours. Couple of guys here in Texas started a tournament tour just for Texas a few years ago and now have a major boat manufacture backing them and a TV program, and this is just a local thing so it's possible.

Good Luck Dan I'm pulling for you.
 
To make any professional sport a success you need two things: 1) an audience. 2) Corporate sponsorship.

The reality is: Our sport is as much fun to watch as paint drying. Let's face it, we are not going to get spectators sitting in bleachers watching wind blow flags around, and a little bullet they can't see, punching holes they can't see, in targets they can't see. And it wouldn't exactly make great TV either.

Without an audience (TV or live) you are not going to get much interest from Corporate sponsors who are interested in selling their product to the masses. Without an audience to sell to, corporate sponsors will be few and far between.

If any of the shooting sports could make it on the professional level it would be one of the shotgun sports like Skeet or Sporting Clays. Benchrest shooting would be the least likely. But don't let me rain on your parade. Go for it, just don't invest too much of your own money in it.
 
Dan

I think you have an excellent thing going here, like you said earlier maybe in the future you will be able to add a 3 Gun format as well. The 09 season is a few months away, but cabin fever has set in already with a few nay sayers. Lets just give it a chance and see how it goes, if it works "Great", if it doesn't then nothing lost. I hope it works since you will be investing a lot of money out of your pocket and you alone seem to be the only one that's willing to try something new for our Sport. Essayons!
 
starting

Our sport as exciting as face painting. Round ball, long stick, little hole 400 yds away. Hit ball, in wind or no wind until it goes in the hole. Winner wins a million a week. On TV every week! Corporations love to sponsor this exciting game.

I can't speak for Dan but I don't believe his aspiration are quite this high. It would be a great evolution if it occurs. Hard work and a little hope go a long way. Math tells me a minimum of 55 entrys allows it to get started with minimual risk to anyone. Let the seedling be planted without so much critical banter. Participation will determine its growth. His ball, his game, want to play, I am sure he would love to have you, bring your gun and lets shoot!
 
Bill B,

You are correct. Nascar, NFL, NBA, MLB all have huge audiences. Then you have professional Bass fishing. Not much of an audience there. 2 guys in a boat and they can win $1,000,000 at a few select tournaments. If they can get a million, surely we can get a few thousand.
 
All of the other sports mentioned started somewhere. Yes our sport does not lead itself to speculating but there is a lot of money in equipment and ammo in it. Like mentioned before, fishing is not really much of a spectator sport (like us) and has a pretty sizable investment in equipment (like us). Why does it have the backing? Someone thought of a new way to promote it. That is what Dan is trying to do and at a risk to his own financial state. If you are like I am and want to see this grow and succeed, then encouragement and help is what he needs. If you keep picking it apart and saying it wont work, then you have nobody to blame when the entire sport just falls apart and you have nowhere to shoot, but yourself. Growth sustains us.

I see the possibility of growth here, big growth. But we have to crawl before we walk. Did any of the sponsored sports begin big and all? I mean with success, it could have classes added, have regions to participate in that lead to a national level. The possibilities are endless, but the foundation has to be laid first.

So Dan, I wish you only the best of luck in this as I see it only bettering the sport.
 
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