Nightforce Benchrest Scopes

TheOpticZone said:
Ok, if you were to build the ultimate benchrest scope, let me hear the features!

Jon Jackoviak
The Optic Zone
www.theopticzone.com

info@theopticzone.com
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Make the W&E adjustments completely stable and repeatable. Make the lens mounting system completely stable. Must be able to "make weight".

These are the only "musts", but good optical quality would be nice as well, as would reasonable price.

Personally, I have used the external adjustment mount systems in the past at times, but I prefer internal adjustments. I use Nightforce, Leupold, and March now, but would just like to see more more reliability from all of them. Reliability is the ultimate requirement in a Benchrest scope.

Jim
 
The only thing to add to Jim's post is that most scope manufacturers don't understand benchrest shooters "reliability." Point of impact shifting is an order of magnitude (at least) greater than in any other shooting endeavor.

And maybe, that there are two dominant weight classes. To make Light Varmint weight (majority of group guns), 18-20 ounces is about all you can afford. Heavy Varmint (majority of score guns) can afford a little more weight. With the rise in popularity of score shooting, these markets are probably about the same. Neither market is large. The usual thinking is you are dependent on picking up some varmint shooters to get a large enough market to make an affordable product. Maybe. But if there is any compromise to get the price low, you'll lose the BR shooters. Perfect and cheap always sells, of course!
 
-- Utterly simple, utterly reliable. Low weight.
--- No lighted reticles, no huge objectives...nothing that complicates the system or adds weight.
-- 6x, and 40x to 50x fixed power models.
-- Clear and bright. Excellent focus/parallax adjustment. I want to be able to resolve the dot on the 300 yard IBS score target.
-- I would prefer, I think, to have external adjustments with a system to let us get on the target with a gross adjustment, then 1/16th clicks for fine adjustment.
 
Jim Wooten said:
... I prefer internal adjustments.

Jim
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Agreed. Protecting these moving parts from dust, rain, etc. makes fundamental sense from a design point of view. It seems that current designs may compromise reliability for creating a slick look by fitting all the parts in a 30 mm tube with minimal projections. Most BR shooters would be willing to accept some less than aesthetic appendages sticking out from the tube if they would make the adjustments rock steady.

Cheers,
Keith
 
Pete Wass said:
Wouldn't it be nice if for once a seller of scopes would listen to those using them?
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Yeah but benchrest shooters, especially short range benchrest, represents a tiny minority of the shooting public. The needs of tactical, 3 gun, and long range benchrest shooters will be met first becuase thats where the money is at.
 
TheOpticZone said:
Ok, if you were to build the ultimate benchrest scope, let me hear the features!

Jon Jackoviak
The Optic Zone
www.theopticzone.com
info@theopticzone.com
Click to expand...

For the Nightforce brand... a 40X, 45X, 50X, 60X or maybe a 30-60X ( don't need the 12 to 24 X level of magnification) variable, 50mm to 60mm obj lense (wouldn't really matter), and without all the lighted reticle cr......stuff. In other words a very reliable somewhat lighter NF scope without all the extra stuff that adds weight...and price! Lifetime transferable warranty of course. Maybe even add one with no adjustments at all and a great set of adjustable rings.
Mark
 
Contrary to popular belief price is an option.
I will buy a Leupold or maybe a night force (for a heavy) but I will not buy a march. I will not spend more for a scope than it cost me to build my rifle.
 
Charles, I agree that both BR markets are small. But, it amazes me to see how many non-benchresters have March, Nightforce or Leup scopes. I know of 4 individuals that have never shot a BR match of any kind that have 6 Marches between them. --greg

Charles E said:
The only thing to add to Jim's post is that most scope manufacturers don't understand benchrest shooters "reliability." Point of impact shifting is an order of magnitude (at least) greater than in any other shooting endeavor.

And maybe, that there are two dominant weight classes. To make Light Varmint weight (majority of group guns), 18-20 ounces is about all you can afford. Heavy Varmint (majority of score guns) can afford a little more weight. With the rise in popularity of score shooting, these markets are probably about the same. Neither market is large. The usual thinking is you are dependent on picking up some varmint shooters to get a large enough market to make an affordable product. Maybe. But if there is any compromise to get the price low, you'll lose the BR shooters. Perfect and cheap always sells, of course!
Click to expand...
 
Yes,

people buy whatever they want!

They do not have to be a racer driver to own a racer!

Some people buy fancy houses with gourmet kitchens, and they can't cook!
 
Edwin D said:
Yes,

people buy whatever they want!

They do not have to be a racer driver to own a racer!

Some people buy fancy houses with gourmet kitchens, and they can't cook!
Click to expand...


That is right on the money! I have a P.U. truck that will tum reeeeal close to 7.50 seconds in the 1/8th mile at over 100 MPH and all the while listening to Pink Floyd at 300 Watts...I don't need it, but I've got it! However...the only place that the very best and most expensive equipment will get you, is in your "frame of mind"!
I'm not saying that the most expensive is not the best equipment to use. The most expensive and prettiest front rest may indeed give someone an advantage. All I'm saying is that most "athletes" enjoy using the most expensive tools for their trade! There is nothing wrong with that, or buying a car that will go 250 MPH when the biggest speed limit on a Federally funded Hwy. is 70 MPH!
Is it needed to win? Probably not! Will it make the victory that much sweeter? Probably YES! Because you have vindicated yourself (to whome ever you feel that you owe an explanation to...[ including yourself!!!]) for for paying that much for the equipment that you use...:) No harm, no foul people!!!!
 
My top Machinist, who is a widower and has no resposibilities aside from enjoying life, just bough a brand new ZR-1 Corvette. That's $118, 000 worth of fun.

Did he need it. Of course not. Did he want it. you bet........jackie
 
It would be interesting to know the number of Leupold Comp scopes Leupold has sold since introducing them, same for the Nightforce. Even though the 6X crowd is a small one, we still need reliable scopes. Disregarding the numbers, I'll bet the 6X market is bigger than we think. I have noticed since several makers no longer advertise 6X scopes the used ones aren't very plentiful. I am betteing the reason some gave up on them is reliability issues. External adjusting would take much of that away.

I would prefer an internally adjustable scope as well but I don't like the idea of hiding the adjusting components inside. This generally leads to things "Slipping" that can't be seen. I don't see much of an issue with dust and dirt. Most benchrest Ranges aren't that dirty of an environment, it they were, we couldn't get them tight bolts open, eh. While it is easy to adjust the externally adjustable mounts currently available, it would sure be nice to have clicks to work with.
 
virg said:
Now if Nightforce made a light (15-18oz) 45X scope with no windage or elevation adjustments made for external adjustment rings they maybe could pickup market share in the short range benchrest world.
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Another way to look at that is to shoot VFS where there is no real advantage to shooting LV. Plenty of room for a Nightforce with the 13.5lb limit and you don't need to spend the big bucks for a March to get a scope with great glass and tracking. I agree that they make it too hard to make 10.5 though. They could have a good seller in a straight 45 power scope without all the lighted reticle gizmos


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doramider7 said:
Another way to look at that is to shoot VFS where there is no real advantage to shooting LV. Plenty of room for a Nightforce with the 13.5lb limit and you don't need to spend the big bucks for a March to get a scope with great glass and tracking. I agree that they make it too hard to make 10.5 though. They could have a good seller in a straight 45 power scope without all the lighted reticle gizmos


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Deja vu
 
If the scope weighed less, the builder would have more flexibility in putting the weight were it would do the most good...just like in building a race car.

Greg J
 
IMO, for BR, light transmission isn't nearly as critical as contrast. I'm no expert on scopes, but I would think they could use top of the line glass with a smaller objective lens and maybe even a 1" tube. Then get rid of all the extra gizmos,like lighted reticles and adjustable magnification, thereby reducing the weight by a substantial amount. Other than the glass, I think the other changes would be less expensive and more suited to our needs. Maybe they'll listen and maybe not. But I certainly think they could cut into Leupold and March's market share even more. All we need is a 45x "Weaver" with better glass and adjustments and etched reticles. JMHO FWIW. This is my version of constructive criticism of what is a very good product that, can be improved upon for OUR uses.--Mike

p.s.-and if they would just move or remove that dognut on the magnification ring that hits our bolt handles on many actions without goung to x-tra tall rings when on 42x:mad:
 
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I don't own one but have shot it a bunch..." Tucker" converted Leupold BR 36, good glass, good shooter, good $ value, not too heavy, all around performer.
 
Agreed, that is a deal! Hope you still have some 12-42 with the NP-2DD reticle tomorrow. Gotta pass it by the boss :D
 
Jon when do you expect the NXS with 1/8MOA dials to become available?

Any price difference from the 1/4MOA dials?
 
Fixed 40 power , 20 ounces +or-, internal adjustments, ABSOLUTELY hold poi...

You would rule the roost in 100/200 yard group shooting.. Easy, huh ?
 
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