My centerfire friends.

[JerrySharrett]

Roy,
Also it seems reasonable to me that the further you get the weight in front of the muzzle the less weight will be required.

Any thoughts in this regard.

Joel, one considertion on putting a weight very far in front of the muzzle, you may get unreasonable POI shifts as you adjust the tuner.

In 2005 when we were shooting IBS 100.200 tuners, the tuner could not be larger than the major profile of a HV barrel. We made tuners that were 0.910" diameter and about 5" long and were threaded to the barrel. Every tuner adjustment resulted in major POI's, sometimes as much as 1" at 100 yards.

The tuner mentioned is the lower one in this picture.

 

[Douglas]

I've got a question for you CF guys; if it weren't for match rule restrictions, (limiting design parameters, size, weight, use, etc.) would you all agree that tuners work? Thanks, Douglas

 

[JerrySharrett]

I've got a question for you CF guys; if it weren't for match rule restrictions, (limiting design parameters, size, weight, use, etc.) would you all agree that tuners work? Thanks, Douglas

Douglas, there is no doubt in anyones mind who has tried a tuner that tuners work. Tuners can be used to tune a load, and as well, they can be used to tune a barrel. There is a difference here.

Tuners can be light weight and accomplish certain functions and they can be heavy and accomplish other results as to accuracy tuning.

Generally, and I say again, generally, a light weight tuner can be used to tune the hour by hour changes in the load. Again, generally, a heavy tuner can be used to "tame" a barrel to where it may have a wider load window or just bring a barrel into its best natural tune condition.

Now then, does everyone need a tuner? Probably not. Keeping up with the tuner adjustment can get complicated itself. If you happen to be one of the shooters that start each season with 10-20 barrels then cull the poorer performing ones, you do not need a tuner.

If you have just one barrel, a tuner may be a benefit, as long as you realize the limits of what a tuner can accomplish.

An example of what a tuner can do for a single barrel shooter. You can take an average good load, say 29 grains V133, a good quality benchrest bullet and proper bullet jam and keep that load humming along in most environmental changes.

An example of what a tuner can't do is take a load of, say 26 grains Benchmark, and a 70 grain V-max, A-max, or such and make it shoot well enough to compete in a field of 20 or more shooters in the 100/200 game.

 

[J. Pendergraft]

Very well stated Jerry. I think you are spot on with your analysis. Regarding your other post about putting the weight out front, isn't it amazing how moving a weight just a few thousandths can have such an impact on the group size?

Douglas, there is no doubt in anyones mind who has tried a tuner that tuners work. Tuners can be used to tune a load, and as well, they can be used to tune a barrel. There is a difference here.

Tuners can be light weight and accomplish certain functions and they can be heavy and accomplish other results as to accuracy tuning.

Generally, and I say again, generally, a light weight tuner can be used to tune the hour by hour changes in the load. Again, generally, a heavy tuner can be used to "tame" a barrel to where it may have a wider load window or just bring a barrel into its best natural tune condition.

Now then, does everyone need a tuner? Probably not. Keeping up with the tuner adjustment can get complicated itself. If you happen to be one of the shooters that start each season with 10-20 barrels then cull the poorer performing ones, you do not need a tuner.

If you have just one barrel, a tuner may be a benefit, as long as you realize the limits of what a tuner can accomplish.

An example of what a tuner can do for a single barrel shooter. You can take an average good load, say 29 grains V133, a good quality benchrest bullet and proper bullet jam and keep that load humming along in most environmental changes.

An example of what a tuner can't do is take a load of, say 26 grains Benchmark, and a 70 grain V-max, A-max, or such and make it shoot well enough to compete in a field of 20 or more shooters in the 100/200 game.

 

[pacecil]

To JerrySharrett & J. Pendergraft..

After an adjustment is made in the tuner that reduces group size, how long , or for how many groups will that adjustment hold? Assume temperature or DA doesn't change. What does make it necessary to make another adjustment?

 

[Roy in NC]

Ahhhhh....

The $64,000 question...

 

[JerrySharrett]

After an adjustment is made in the tuner that reduces group size, how long , or for how many groups will that adjustment hold? Assume temperature or DA doesn't change. What does make it necessary to make another adjustment?

It would be my gut feel that if nothing environmentally changed the barrel would stay in tune during that entire period.

But think about it, how many days can you remember where the temperature and dew point (think humidity) didn't change from. say 8 AM to 4 PM?

Roy, this is my nickel answer to your $64,000 question!!

 

[jackie schmidt]

Jerry's Right

If you tune a Rifle for a given set of conditions using the conventional methods, (powder charge, seating depth, neck tension), it will go out of tune if thereis a substantial change in the weather conditions.
A tuner is no different. Just because it is right today is certainly no guarantee that it will be right tommorrow, or for that matter, after lunch.
That is why it it is good to have a tuner that is "user friendly" at the line........jackie

 

[J. Pendergraft]

After an adjustment is made in the tuner that reduces group size, how long , or for how many groups will that adjustment hold? Assume temperature or DA doesn't change. What does make it necessary to make another adjustment?

I am using mine on a 1K rifle so I do not adjust it once it's set. Shooting at 1K yards is totally different than 100 yds in that you are not be able to perceive a slight change in grouping ability to be able to make a change at the line. This is why I am mostly interested in a Calfee type tuner in front of the muzzle.

 

[Pete Wass]

There shouldn't be - -

Any real difference between RF and CF in terms of the atmospheric force changes that affect bullets, no matter the size or speed they are launched at. If DA affects a CF bulet, it should affect a RF bullet to a greater degree, I would think. It seems logical that if a tuner can regulate a RF barrel to the point that atmospheric conditions do not affect the POI of the bullet launched, the same should hold true for CF. It seems a straigth forward conclusion. The question is, How much does the weight need to weigh, isn't it?