C
How do we increase membership today?
- Thread starter Joe Krupa
- Start date
S
Single Shot
Guest
Lynn,
I agree, I would think you and a lot of others would know about it, like I said give NRA a call, I'm sure they will send you a copy to check out, anyone have any idea how NRA can run about 10,300 match's a year, it's no secret, it's called advertising the events to the shooters in the pub's that they read. If things are declining one of the reasons could be that the officials that are running the Associations are not doing anything, hell if you read much of the post on this forum you know as well as I that some of them run and hide when a dues paying member asks a question.
SS
I agree, I would think you and a lot of others would know about it, like I said give NRA a call, I'm sure they will send you a copy to check out, anyone have any idea how NRA can run about 10,300 match's a year, it's no secret, it's called advertising the events to the shooters in the pub's that they read. If things are declining one of the reasons could be that the officials that are running the Associations are not doing anything, hell if you read much of the post on this forum you know as well as I that some of them run and hide when a dues paying member asks a question.
SS
I'm a whole bunch naive and miss a lot of stuff. Will you kindly offer an example of the "run and hide" from a question deal you mentioned.
S
Single Shot
Guest
Hi Wilbur
It was only a figure of speech, I'm not sure if any of the guys are in good enough shape to run, but check out the RBA cadillacjack and Bob Collins fiasco, just for starters.
It was started by asking a few questions by dues paying members, it was said that it was because of a lack of communication and an apparent disregard for the bylaws and procedures of the RBA organization by some of the officials. ( not my words ) This ordeal got so far out of hand that even some Match Directors resigned from the "good old boys club" as it was called.
None of this had to happen, all Bob C. or some of the other officials had to do was answer the question put to them honestly, clearly, and to the point, instead they either ignored the members question or just keep beating around the bush ( another figure of speech ) or even gave answers that were not true, ( not good for an official to get caught lying to dues paying members ) all that accomplished was P**sing off other members, and some Match Directors resigning, not good for RBA or any other Association.
There were 8 pages of this stuff read by who knows how many shooters, the outcome was that it got so bad you had to close it down.
Then there was the ARA unfair practice of not having a level playing field, but that was more or less ok because ARA is not a member Association like the RBA is and the people that "own" ARA can do what they want with it. I think the owners of ARA got the level playing field that the shooters wanted straighten out and now everyone seems happy but it was not a good thing for shooters to read at the time.
Granted, this had to do with Rim fire BR, but to a lot of shooters BR is BR and none of this stuff was a good read.
There's more but I don't think that we should dig in any more dirt, it may get worst, and that cant be a good thing for BR.
SS
It was only a figure of speech, I'm not sure if any of the guys are in good enough shape to run, but check out the RBA cadillacjack and Bob Collins fiasco, just for starters.
It was started by asking a few questions by dues paying members, it was said that it was because of a lack of communication and an apparent disregard for the bylaws and procedures of the RBA organization by some of the officials. ( not my words ) This ordeal got so far out of hand that even some Match Directors resigned from the "good old boys club" as it was called.
None of this had to happen, all Bob C. or some of the other officials had to do was answer the question put to them honestly, clearly, and to the point, instead they either ignored the members question or just keep beating around the bush ( another figure of speech ) or even gave answers that were not true, ( not good for an official to get caught lying to dues paying members ) all that accomplished was P**sing off other members, and some Match Directors resigning, not good for RBA or any other Association.
There were 8 pages of this stuff read by who knows how many shooters, the outcome was that it got so bad you had to close it down.
Then there was the ARA unfair practice of not having a level playing field, but that was more or less ok because ARA is not a member Association like the RBA is and the people that "own" ARA can do what they want with it. I think the owners of ARA got the level playing field that the shooters wanted straighten out and now everyone seems happy but it was not a good thing for shooters to read at the time.
Granted, this had to do with Rim fire BR, but to a lot of shooters BR is BR and none of this stuff was a good read.
There's more but I don't think that we should dig in any more dirt, it may get worst, and that cant be a good thing for BR.
SS
H
hecksf
Guest
"How do we increase membership today? "
That was the question?
Here are my suggestions.
1. The rules shouldn't be so complcated that a person has to wade through a rule book to figure things out. SO Make a class with a simple set of rules that can be explaned in about 2 sentences by a guy at the range.
2. Expense is an issue. Saying something like "if you can't afford 500 dollars a year for bullets you shouldn't be shooting Bench Rest" won't attract new shooters. SO Make a class that will limit the cost of equipment.
3. Bench Rest is not a real thrill sport like Sky Diving or Volcano Surfing. So face the fact that many young people are action people and want something more active. SO Focus your advertising on the people most likely to be interested in sitting down and concentrating on one activity and doing that activity well.(that means not someone who is dreaming about a Nissan drift car with a Hooters girl doing the splits accross the hood.)
4. America has been spoiled for years by cheap oil and a lot of expendable cash. Now that the economy has declined people want to spend their money on things of value. SO Make your big yearly matches memorable events! Make them special! Make sure the range looks great and everything runs sooth. Make sure the word is out there. IF you have to, call up some well known shooters and invite them to the match. Maybe some guys would like to go to a match were they got their butt kicked by Tony or Speedy or Lester or one of the other HOF personalities(as well as everybody else). Look how popular the SS is. Make your match as good as the SS
Those are my answers to the questions.
Ted
That was the question?
Here are my suggestions.
1. The rules shouldn't be so complcated that a person has to wade through a rule book to figure things out. SO Make a class with a simple set of rules that can be explaned in about 2 sentences by a guy at the range.
2. Expense is an issue. Saying something like "if you can't afford 500 dollars a year for bullets you shouldn't be shooting Bench Rest" won't attract new shooters. SO Make a class that will limit the cost of equipment.
3. Bench Rest is not a real thrill sport like Sky Diving or Volcano Surfing. So face the fact that many young people are action people and want something more active. SO Focus your advertising on the people most likely to be interested in sitting down and concentrating on one activity and doing that activity well.(that means not someone who is dreaming about a Nissan drift car with a Hooters girl doing the splits accross the hood.)
4. America has been spoiled for years by cheap oil and a lot of expendable cash. Now that the economy has declined people want to spend their money on things of value. SO Make your big yearly matches memorable events! Make them special! Make sure the range looks great and everything runs sooth. Make sure the word is out there. IF you have to, call up some well known shooters and invite them to the match. Maybe some guys would like to go to a match were they got their butt kicked by Tony or Speedy or Lester or one of the other HOF personalities(as well as everybody else). Look how popular the SS is. Make your match as good as the SS
Those are my answers to the questions.
Ted
Trying not to be negative, and accepting that my inputs are not desired, I'll say for sake what would interest most of the shooting world:
2 rules:
- Walk a course of fire with your shooting system
- Shoot on each target once
The objective:
Your shots from various ranges are measured from center of bull, and placement is based on best overall ACCURACY.
A course might involve a 1/2mile trek with 10 targets at various distances for each shooter to hit with one shot.
It wouldn't take long to move alot of shooters through. Logistics would be less expensive as there would be no benchs or need for moving backers. Just a bit of farm land. There would be no limitations on equipment used as long as carried. There would be no cost of equipment issues anymore, and preparation for this format would improve any shooters skill and shooting system.
Now this of course, is nothing like benchrest.
But it is what shooters would like to be good at. What many new shooters would like to do, and with equipment less offending.
So I think you should consider how to entice -these shooters, who are all around you. Everywhere..
I don't say this as an attack on BR, but only offering perspectives to the problem at hand.
2 rules:
- Walk a course of fire with your shooting system
- Shoot on each target once
The objective:
Your shots from various ranges are measured from center of bull, and placement is based on best overall ACCURACY.
A course might involve a 1/2mile trek with 10 targets at various distances for each shooter to hit with one shot.
It wouldn't take long to move alot of shooters through. Logistics would be less expensive as there would be no benchs or need for moving backers. Just a bit of farm land. There would be no limitations on equipment used as long as carried. There would be no cost of equipment issues anymore, and preparation for this format would improve any shooters skill and shooting system.
Now this of course, is nothing like benchrest.
But it is what shooters would like to be good at. What many new shooters would like to do, and with equipment less offending.
So I think you should consider how to entice -these shooters, who are all around you. Everywhere..
I don't say this as an attack on BR, but only offering perspectives to the problem at hand.
jackie schmidt
New member
Lynn
To attend the two Registered Matches at The Tomball Gun Club, you of course have to be a NBRSA Member. You can join when you register if you are not a member.
As for the four club matches, the only requirement is to show up with a Rifle, and $15. We will fit you into one of the three classes.
I have flyers on the bulletin board at Carters Country Gun Stores, and Baily's House of Guns. next year we will try to do more.
To attend the two Registered Matches at The Tomball Gun Club, you of course have to be a NBRSA Member. You can join when you register if you are not a member.
As for the four club matches, the only requirement is to show up with a Rifle, and $15. We will fit you into one of the three classes.
I have flyers on the bulletin board at Carters Country Gun Stores, and Baily's House of Guns. next year we will try to do more.
jackie schmidt
New member
David Apple
As I have said, I see the two Sanctioning Bodies heading in different directions. The IBS will steadilly become a Score oriented organization, and the NBRSA will stay with the Group Format.
I personally think this is a good thing. As was said before, if a NBRSA affiliated club wishes to hold a Registered Varmint for Score Match, they simply have to Register with the IBS. There is no reason to force the NBRSA to change their Format when another Sanctioning Body already offers it.
This is just my opinion. ......jackie
As I have said, I see the two Sanctioning Bodies heading in different directions. The IBS will steadilly become a Score oriented organization, and the NBRSA will stay with the Group Format.
I personally think this is a good thing. As was said before, if a NBRSA affiliated club wishes to hold a Registered Varmint for Score Match, they simply have to Register with the IBS. There is no reason to force the NBRSA to change their Format when another Sanctioning Body already offers it.
This is just my opinion. ......jackie
Dan H
New member
God bless you Francis, very intuitive, ya think? Go shoot y'all and then we'll talk, it is much less costly to type than to shoot, what do you think? Get off the key board and become proactive get involved and shoot ya got time for that? The membership numbers would go up buy scores 
The question was how can we increase membership, sign up and go shoot that would work in most places.
Dan Honert
The question was how can we increase membership, sign up and go shoot that would work in most places.
Dan Honert
H
hecksf
Guest
Mike
Thanks for the input.
there is already a form of competition similar to this . Quite a number of the Tactical style sniper matches already do this. Except maybe they don't measure from the center of a bull for score.
I do something similar to this as part of my job but I have to carry a bunch of crap with me and some times I run so hard I think I am going to die from a heart attack. I wouldn't find this form much fun.
I think that we would like the keep the form factor of the competition the same or very similar. Without the Bench I don't think it would really be Bench Rest. But at least you are thinking. Keep on brain storming.
Ted
A
AVanGorder
Guest
Factory
I'm a believer that we need a Factory Class.
I'm a believer that we need a Factory Class.
H
hecksf
Guest
AVAN
We have a factory class in Austin and it gets more shooters than the match class most of the time.
One thing I would like to see in the factory class would be a more precise set of rules.
As an example.
' one of the guys KB'd his Remington PSS and on getting it repaired he had the barrel set back and a tight chamber cut. His gun shot well to begin with and now it shoots even beter. But I don't really call it a true factory gun.
My old Ruger 77 after being bedded, a shilen select match with a tight chamber and a trigger job isn't really a factory gun either.
I would like to see an IBS or NBRSA Sanctioned Factory Class and you have to make sure that the whole gun is factory.
It would be the same as it came off the manufacturers floor.
Ted
We have a factory class in Austin and it gets more shooters than the match class most of the time.
One thing I would like to see in the factory class would be a more precise set of rules.
As an example.
' one of the guys KB'd his Remington PSS and on getting it repaired he had the barrel set back and a tight chamber cut. His gun shot well to begin with and now it shoots even beter. But I don't really call it a true factory gun.
My old Ruger 77 after being bedded, a shilen select match with a tight chamber and a trigger job isn't really a factory gun either.
I would like to see an IBS or NBRSA Sanctioned Factory Class and you have to make sure that the whole gun is factory.
It would be the same as it came off the manufacturers floor.
Ted
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ALL shooting sports events should have prior announcements to the local newspapers AND results after. Couple pictures would not hurt.
I suggested that at a shotgun club I belonged to. Im a rifle shooter. The response I got was "the community dont need to know about the shoot-only the ATA(Amer Trap Assn)." Could have blowed me over with a feather.
Somewhat off topic but I have also suggested with 0 (zero) results is to sponsor a "MEDIA/LEGISLATORS Day" at the range. Include US senators/Gov Reps and State elected dudes. If they dont want to-make em say "NO". Them media has to have a shadow so as to prevent bad outcomes/misinterpetations.
Any one do this with any success??
I suggested that at a shotgun club I belonged to. Im a rifle shooter. The response I got was "the community dont need to know about the shoot-only the ATA(Amer Trap Assn)." Could have blowed me over with a feather.
Somewhat off topic but I have also suggested with 0 (zero) results is to sponsor a "MEDIA/LEGISLATORS Day" at the range. Include US senators/Gov Reps and State elected dudes. If they dont want to-make em say "NO". Them media has to have a shadow so as to prevent bad outcomes/misinterpetations.
Any one do this with any success??
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Dick Wright
New member
We have had a Factory Class...
for seventeen years. You hit a problem dead on. What we now do is have a Factory Class AND a Custom (or Modified) Class.
Some of our shooters have shot Factory forever. A lot of them get the bug and buy a bench gun and move up in class.
Jeff Aberegg shoots all three classes sometimes.
Having the different classes will get a lot of folks to show up who wouldn't if they had to shoot against bench guns.
Dick
for seventeen years. You hit a problem dead on. What we now do is have a Factory Class AND a Custom (or Modified) Class.
Some of our shooters have shot Factory forever. A lot of them get the bug and buy a bench gun and move up in class.
Jeff Aberegg shoots all three classes sometimes.
Having the different classes will get a lot of folks to show up who wouldn't if they had to shoot against bench guns.
Dick
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bob harrison
Guest
Problem areas:
Lack of classification system.
Lack of match sponsership by the manufactures that make their money off BR.
Regristered matches are few, and ofter far away.
Club matches are often few, far away and usually only during the summer.
For NBRSA, no alternative to group, ie: no VFS, which is more practical and less time comsuming for a match.
Equipment cost can be prohibitive, especially when there are few, or no local matches, and what matchs there are are often far away. Who wants to spend bunches of money on a rifle and equipment when you can only shoot one or two matches a year?
As it has evolved, BR is primarily a sport for those who have lots of time and disposable income.
At the present rate of decline, there may not be formal BR in 10 or 15 years.
Bob
Lack of classification system.
Lack of match sponsership by the manufactures that make their money off BR.
Regristered matches are few, and ofter far away.
Club matches are often few, far away and usually only during the summer.
For NBRSA, no alternative to group, ie: no VFS, which is more practical and less time comsuming for a match.
Equipment cost can be prohibitive, especially when there are few, or no local matches, and what matchs there are are often far away. Who wants to spend bunches of money on a rifle and equipment when you can only shoot one or two matches a year?
As it has evolved, BR is primarily a sport for those who have lots of time and disposable income.
At the present rate of decline, there may not be formal BR in 10 or 15 years.
Bob
Harrison I look at things this way; if there is no match near you - Start one if you want a classifaction system - design one for your match ( if it works sell it to one of the National groups to try). No VFS in NBRSA-no problem register IBS and want to keep it low cost; have a Factory class that limits the rifles involved. You will hear in the factory class that somebody else is cheating because they have a better rifle.
P
Phil3
Guest
From a person who is new as one can be in BR, I can tell you why I am hesitant on getting involved with the sport or competition.
Lack of clear cut beginner information. The NBRSA is a classic example. I can find nothing on their site that is beginner friendly at all. No introduction on what competitive BR is about, how to get started, etc. It is like a secret organization. I used to road race motorcycles, a sport where a ton of info is needed, but at least the organization I ran under was far more user friendly (www.afmracing.org), and helpful for newbies.
This forum has been helpful, but I can find little information on so many areas, it is frustrating and intimidating, and fosters an environment of closed doors to new people. For instance, I can find virtually nothing on shooting technique, which is described as crucial. OK, but how do I learn it? Why is reloading so important? A naive question to many, and plenty of topics on the mechanics of doing, but little info on why one is doing it? Why must the brass be sized so exactly? What is all the fuss about on various bedding techniques? What is best in a BR gun? And a zillion more questions, and even more terms to get answers to and learn. It seems to be me there should be a book on all this. Maybe there is, but I see no mention of any such informational source by anyone or organization.
The lack of information, combined with the substantial investment required (want to make the right choice the first time) and a sense of intimidation by the huge chasm of knowledge between the newbie and the experienced, leaves one hesitant.
I am 55 years old, and have seen a lot. It is no mystery to me why membership is declining. Through no purposeful effort by anyone, and regardless of whether it is right or wrong, the perception of people like myself is that the door is closed and visitors are not welcome. My one previous thread here is the exception, and I am very thankful for the patience demonstrated by all.
- Phil
Lack of clear cut beginner information. The NBRSA is a classic example. I can find nothing on their site that is beginner friendly at all. No introduction on what competitive BR is about, how to get started, etc. It is like a secret organization. I used to road race motorcycles, a sport where a ton of info is needed, but at least the organization I ran under was far more user friendly (www.afmracing.org), and helpful for newbies.
This forum has been helpful, but I can find little information on so many areas, it is frustrating and intimidating, and fosters an environment of closed doors to new people. For instance, I can find virtually nothing on shooting technique, which is described as crucial. OK, but how do I learn it? Why is reloading so important? A naive question to many, and plenty of topics on the mechanics of doing, but little info on why one is doing it? Why must the brass be sized so exactly? What is all the fuss about on various bedding techniques? What is best in a BR gun? And a zillion more questions, and even more terms to get answers to and learn. It seems to be me there should be a book on all this. Maybe there is, but I see no mention of any such informational source by anyone or organization.
The lack of information, combined with the substantial investment required (want to make the right choice the first time) and a sense of intimidation by the huge chasm of knowledge between the newbie and the experienced, leaves one hesitant.
I am 55 years old, and have seen a lot. It is no mystery to me why membership is declining. Through no purposeful effort by anyone, and regardless of whether it is right or wrong, the perception of people like myself is that the door is closed and visitors are not welcome. My one previous thread here is the exception, and I am very thankful for the patience demonstrated by all.
- Phil
P
Phil3
Guest
As a followup to my previous post, messages (3rd one) in this link validate initial concerns.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198241
- Phil
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198241
- Phil