FEEDBACK FROM THE TUNNEL IN WEST TEXAS, Fireforming

G

Gene Beggs

Active member
Once in a while, a real jewel of information comes along that really makes a difference. Such is the case with this little known secret of fireforming.

In his recently published book, "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" Mike Ratigan reveals his procedure for fireforming. By the way, if you have not obtained a copy of Mike's book, I strongly urge you to do so as soon as possible.

Beginning on page 114, under 'Fire Forming Secrets' Mike explains why it is so important to lubricate the case the first time it is fired. I not only lubricate the case but also fire the first time with only 20 grains of N133, H322, 8208, Benchmark or whatever I'm using. This insures that the case slides back firmly against the bolt face thereby preventing stretching the case wall in the critical web area.

This is very important. Why? It prevents the cases from tightening up in the chamber prematurely. A properly fireformed case, sized with a good die that fits the chamber, goes in and out of the rifle like butter and lasts almost forever.

Questions? Let's talk about it.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
I needed that Yesterday

I started to order that book somtime back, If I had i would say I knew that. Maybe Gene you could give a little more thought as to why so little charge, I Fire formed some ppc last evening, I always seat bullet out long use around 27gr of 133 and put some imper size wax on the case, I noted that it seemed the cases were a little tight while fire forming. After I shot them 2 times throu, they really did not get any more tight than after f-forming.
 
This is interesting

There has been a lot of bad information published about how to fire form. This to me makes a lot of sense.

What I have taken to doing lately is to use my full length sizing die to form my cases before I turn the necks. This sort of insures they don't move arounf a lot. I will qualify this by saying I am talking HBR cases though. My cases DO get tight however. I must try some with light loads to see - - -

Along with using lube I recommend annealing the cases before fireforming.
 
Last edited:
oiled cases

22 grains of Dupont 4198 and roll case on a cloth with
30wt motor oil lightly has never failed to allow me great case life.
cases come out very good and 60 firings /per case is not bad.
necks will fail first
 
Chamber for a crush fit and never look back. Just shoot it, no grease, no seat long no nuttin' and it works for everything. Cases go in HARD for fireform and fall back out with a flick of the pinkie. Last forever, never banana, no problem.

If you've got to grease the case your chamber's already too long.

al
 
Guys, here's a little experiment that reveals why it is important to lube cases and use a light charge to fireform. And of course, here I'm speaking of our BR cartridges, the 22/6mmPPC and 220/6MM Beggs using Lapua 220 Russian cases.

Take two new cases of the same length that have been prepped and ready to fireform. Be sure the chamber of the rifle is perfectly dry by running a little brake cleaner in with a bore mop and be sure there is no lube in the chamber. Now load one case with a full load and wipe the entire case with a little brake cleaner on a rag. In other words be sure this round is loaded hot, and that everything is bone dry. Fire it in the rifle, punch out the fired primer and measure the case length.

Load the second case with a squib load, twenty grains of N133 if that's what you use and thoroughly lubricate the entire cartridge, bullet and all with lightweight oil, bolt grease, or Imperial wax. Fire the round. Again, deprime and measure the OAL. You will find this case is several thousandths shorter than the one that was fired dry with the hot load.

After the initial firing, you can use a normal load. I was glad to hear Mike Ratigan agrees with what I have always recommended; no pistol powder, wax, corn meal, or other funny stuff. You don't have to use your priceless Superman bullets when fireforming; there are plenty of inexpensive, off the shelf bullets that are fine for fireforming, but I believe pistol powder has only one place; pistols. Keep that stuff away from your benchrest rifles. I know, I know, many of you have been doing it for years but you know Murphy's Law; it's always there ready to bite you. Never knowlingly leave yourself open to Murphy.

Hope this helps

Gene Beggs
 
changing the subject...short ??

gene,
have you had any time to look at/work with a 30 beggs ???

thanks
mike in co
 
I usually bump (with my normal die setup), then seat WAY long... Jam the bullet in hopes that the case centers/squares with the bolt. They go in hard, come out easy. Usually use around 48 clicks on my Harrell... Seems to me that the slick case would expand somewhat, but slide back toward the boltface.

And if you stuff a shortish case in dry, won't it seal and lengthen? You aren't going to lube the cases all the time.
 
bogie I agree...... I just NEVER stuff a shortish case in ;) My first real BR brass came from Jim Borden, it has to be heeled closed with the palm. I used it with 6 different barrels all chambered the same and from this experience learned to chamber everything short enough that the shoulders must be reset to chamber, crush-fit.

I'm not trying to argue, I do agree fully with Gene and yourself (and Mike R). Shortish cases (PPC/BR) will do best greased. I just avoid the problem of shortish cases ;) I'm also a gapspace-geek...I want the neck to stay right where it is.

A crush-fit case will neither shorten OAL nor stick and stretch, it can't. it's already jammed. The shoulders will just blow out. With proper neckturning, a sharp-radius n/s junction and a tight jam I can even get Ackley's to hold tight.

A jammed bullet will NOT hold the case from moving forward. This is easy to test for. I even got Skip Otto to try it :D

al
 
mike in co said:
gene,
have you had any time to look at/work with a 30 beggs ???

thanks
mike in co
Click to expand...

Mike, I have not yet worked with a 30 caliber. I wish I could say I have been too busy to do so but the truth is, I'm just lazy. I have been concentrating on the 220 and 6mm. Wish I could figure out a way to reclaim some of the energy I had twenty years ago. Of course, losing about forty pounds would help a lot.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Chuck Bogardus said:
I usually bump (with my normal die setup), then seat WAY long... Jam the bullet in hopes that the case centers/squares with the bolt. They go in hard, come out easy. Usually use around 48 clicks on my Harrell... Seems to me that the slick case would expand somewhat, but slide back toward the boltface.

And if you stuff a shortish case in dry, won't it seal and lengthen? You aren't going to lube the cases all the time.
Click to expand...

Hi Bogie

You asked, "If you stuff a shortish case in dry, won't it seal and lengthen?"

Yes, the case will seal and lengthen but the lengthening will occurr in the web area instead of the shoulder. If you stretch the web on the first firing, the case will forever be weakened in that area.

I lubricate the case only for the first firing. After that, I shoot 'em dry.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
ForUs That Fireform,and Then Turn

About three years ago, I started firing my 220 Russian cases with about 26 grns of 133 and a 22 bullet to arrive at a "factory" 6PPC case. I then neck turn them. That 22 bullet will build considerable pressure. The cases come out dead straight, and you can see exactly where the neck- shoulder junction is.
I then fire them again, and they are ready to go to the line.
If you "neck up" cases by firing them, the way I do, they will come out a little longer than if you neck them up with a mandrel. The main reason is you are "blowing forward", rather than "pressing back".

I always use a thin coat of imperial wax on the first firing, (220 Russian to 6PPC), because I have found, through trial and error, that it gives the best results.........jackie
 
good to see the "Beggs" shootin so well

HI Gene,,,heard u did well at the Show me shoot out...congrats....and which version (22/6mm) were you shooting ....Roger...
 
So if you stretch the web on the second firing, they last longer?
 
expiper said:
HI Gene,,,heard u did well at the Show me shoot out...congrats....and which version (22/6mm) were you shooting ....Roger...
Click to expand...

Roger, I wish I could let you and others go on thinking it was me that shot so well at St Louis, but the truth is, I wasn't even there. There are two Gene B's; Gene BUKYS lives in Houston and along with Jackie Schmidt is responsible for the TSI, external scope mount system. Gene Bukys has also been a member of the US Benchrest Team several times and is one helluva' shooter.

Then there is me, Gene BEGGS the redneck from Odessa that has the tunnel, developed the Wind Probe, the Beggs line of cartridges and most recently the best tuner in the world. You can easily distinguish the difference between Bukys and Beggs. Beggs is the suave, good lookin' gentleman :) :cool: of the two while Bukys is ugly :(and mean. :mad:

Later guys

Gene BEGGS :) :cool:
 
Chuck Bogardus said:
So if you stretch the web on the second firing, they last longer?
Click to expand...


Bogie, it's the first firing that is most important. You are not likely to stretch the web on the second firing although I frequently fire the second time with an intermediate load, no sizing and leave lubricant on the cases. On the second firing, I just punch out the old primer, prime, charge and load. There will be enough neck tension remaining to hold the bullets. Then you can put whatever load you want in them.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
One Other Clarification

The only involvement I have had with TSI is I used to freeze 1'' scopes for Gene Bukys.......jackie
 
Isn't G. Bukys' house on wheels about 6" longer than yours?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top