eley/lapua why eley works

bill, plain fate, whoever settled on 24.5" to 25.0" picked the perfect length for ammo between 1050 and 1065. if the barrel was 26.0" to 27.5" everyone right now might be using lapua. and how did lapua get @ the 1073 aiming speed for their top line ammo?? that is the perfect speed for the lenght for feinwerkbau and walther barrels.
 
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martin hammond said:
well tim, missed the annoucments on all the national and psl championships you managed with that killer ammo. again congratulations keep up the good shooting. martin
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Really you of all people are actually going to take a shot having anything to do with matches of any kind??? That, my friend, is rich.
 
that's good tim. sometimes you do sometimes you don't. referring to the ammo.
 
i have chronied eley. i have always found it is hotter than they claim it is. same with lapua. niether are within what they say out of a 24-26 inch barrel. they are even fast out of the longer suhl factory barrel. i have really found eley to have a wider spread than the lupua. the eley have tested in the past few years have had around a 20fps spread and the lapua 12 fps spread and i have kept records of it.

i chrony everything i shoot just so i know what is going on. be it rimfire,centerfire or my glock 17 i use in our local ipda type matches.

there is going to be a spread in every type of ammo you use. i just can't understand why the one with the widest spread makes the best ammo. way it is made? tuning? speeds?
 
Bill Wynne said:
Has anyone considered that no regular sporting rifles are chambered for Eley.

I have tested my ammo and my rifles inside at 50 yards under controlled conditions.

My CZ 452 Varmint shoots at it's best with Lapua. It is just stock as far as the barrel and the chamber.

Most custom rifles being built today are chambered for Eley and, therefor, they shoot better with Eley. Could it be the chambering has more to do with what ammo shoots best in the rifle than the tuner? I suspect so.

Concho Bill
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Bill, my 40X has always preferred Lapua, and it has the Eley EPS chamber. No kidding, my 453 Varmint prefers Eley over Lapua with the factory chamber.

Marc.
 
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Pete: Bert and I went ovaht the range in East Vassleburra one mawnin" to invstugate just these kinda strange goins on. Well afta 'bout an owha Bert says:" I buleive you ain't holdin' ya mouth just right!" Good an explaination as any I've heard. Smart fella that Bert. Happy Turkey Day!
 
center22 said:
Could the accuracy enhancements, be related to Eley's EPS [flat nose] bullet design?
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you have hit on a point there. eley is the only company making a wad cutter type bullet in .22lr. maybe if lapua did this they would corner the market. they have less of a difference in speed than eley does. maybe it is the design of the bullet!!! i wonder if we purchased a tool to reshape the bullet to the eley wad cutter type if lapua would shoot better and much tighter groups? there is a ideal if anybody has that tool(it is made by the way). i have a case of some old lapua that shoots great in one of my rifles. i wonder what it would do reshaped to the eley type wad cutter shape? has anybody else thuaght to try this yet? i don't think it would be legal to use in a match, but it could explain a thing or two if it is tried.
 
If Laupua would bring their two top of the lime rounds down in price to match that of Eley's, you would see more using Lapua.
 
mr. nobody said:
you have hit on a point there. eley is the only company making a wad cutter type bullet in .22lr. maybe if lapua did this they would corner the market. they have less of a difference in speed than eley does. maybe it is the design of the bullet!!! i wonder if we purchased a tool to reshape the bullet to the eley wad cutter type if lapua would shoot better and much tighter groups? there is a ideal if anybody has that tool(it is made by the way). i have a case of some old lapua that shoots great in one of my rifles. i wonder what it would do reshaped to the eley type wad cutter shape? has anybody else thuaght to try this yet? i don't think it would be legal to use in a match, but it could explain a thing or two if it is tried.
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The front of a bullet has nothing to do with the way it travels.Wilbur was telling me there was a test done and they even cut the front of a bullet with wire cutters and it shot fine, it is the back of the bullet that really makes a difference.
You have hit it in an offhand way though, it is the bullet but it is the design of the driving bands that made the accuracy difference in eley.
 
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Below is a paragraph from a "Shooting Times" article with reference to Eley's TenEx ammunition:
With nearly 1000 variables charted, the engineers addressed bullet and case design. Bullet design was analyzed with sophisticated computer modelling for in-flight characteristics. They discovered that a flatnose projectile was distinctly better for subsonic velocities out to 50 meters. The reason is that bullet stability is enhanced the more forward the center of pressure (air-pressure resistance) is located forward of the center of gravity of the bullet, and roundnose bullets do not "push" the center of pressure as far forward. (Incidentally, the small "pip" visible in the center of current TenEx bullets is not a ballistic feature; it's the result of an air pocket in the mold that allows the sharp-cornered edges of the nose to form fully.)
 
MIKECAMERON said:
The front of a bullet has nothing to do with the way it travels.Wilbur was telling me there was a test done and they even cut the front of a bullet with wire cutters and it shot fine, it is the back of the bullet that really makes a difference.
You have hit it in an offhand way though, it is the bullet but it is the design of the driving bands that made the accuracy difference in eley.
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this tool that somebody makes doesn't cut the bullet. as you apply pressure it changes the shape of the soft led bullet to form it just like a eley bullet. it retains it's wieght and everything. cutting the nose off removes wieght from the bullet. i wouldn't do that myself. if it is the driving bands and theys guys who make this may have designed that into it as well. i don't know becuase i don't have one. i have seen them on another site. you can maake the eley tipped bullet or a hollow point round. i would like to see somebody try this and see what they come up with on lapua ammo shaped like the eley.

here is a link to the bullet resizer. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345231&highlight=bullet+shaper
 
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Bill Wynne said:
Has anyone considered that no regular sporting rifles are chambered for Eley.

I have tested my ammo and my rifles inside at 50 yards under controlled conditions.

My CZ 452 Varmint shoots at it's best with Lapua. It is just stock as far as the barrel and the chamber.

Most custom rifles being built today are chambered for Eley and, therefor, they shoot better with Eley. Could it be the chambering has more to do with what ammo shoots best in the rifle than the tuner? I suspect so.

Concho Bill
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Bill, your cz 452 has a 20.9" barrel, the only cz in the 24.5 range is the military trainer, and mine shoots eley better, all others including the 28.6 lux shoots lapua best. a difference of somewhere 1.5" either way makes the difference when a 1070 -1100 fps round arrives at the muzzle and in the case of a .825 24.5" that length is perfect for speeds of 1050 to 1065 + or - a few fps depending where crowned. martin
 
maybe im missing something here, but the premise of this thread is, eley shoots better with a tuner, and lapua shoots better without, but which shoots better with or without a tuner. what im trying to say is, if lapua shoots better without a tuner than eley does with a tuner, throw the tuner out. conversely if eley shoots better with a tuner than lapua does with, keep the tuner and eley ammo. so what is the OP of the thread trying to say or prove? all i read is one is better with, and one without a tuner, but which one is BETTER?
 
Lefty, the answer is both will shoot extremely well, it's the length of barrel that matters more than anything. since most modern bench rifles today are made with a .825 straight 24.750" length the best speed for that contour is in the range of 1050-1065, my point is none of the lapua is in that range. making a barrel 1.5" longer or a different contour changes the equation. it's not like eley is making ammo better than lapua it's what benchresters are doing to make eley shoot. in addition when a tuner is put on there are certain combinations of weights added that combo will make a fast round tune better than a slow round. when Marc came on and stated his 40x eps chamber shot better with lapua the reason is he has a reverse tapered barrel if anyone would see how accurate Marcs rifle is with lapua midas + it would open some eyes. Marcs not only a good marksman he has a special rifle and it is beyond accurate with those lots of midas+ he has.
 
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martin hammond said:
Lefty, the answer is both will shoot extremely well, it's the length of barrel that matters more than anything. since most modern bench rifles today are made with a .825 straight 24.750" length the best speed for that contour is in the range of 1050-1065, my point is none of the lapua is in that range. making a barrel 1.5" longer or a different contour changes the equation. it's not like eley is making ammo better than lapua it's what benchresters are doing to make eley shoot. in addition when a tuner is put on there are certain combinations of weights added that combo will make a fast round tune better than a slow round. when Marc came on and stated his 40x eps chamber shot better with lapua the reason is he has a reverse tapered barrel if anyone would see how accurate Marcs rifle is with lapua midas + it would open some eyes. Marcs not only a good marksman he has a special rifle and it is beyond accurate with those lots of midas+ he has.
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Really, I know a couple of the best .22 rimfire smiths alive, including world record rifles and they use barrels nowhere near .825" just as an FYI.
 
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