Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)
- Thread starter Benchrest Central
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J
J. Valentine
Guest
Thanks for the kind reply but that does not make any sense.
You say that most people want a small meplat and go in too far and the jacket SHRINKS. Then you say that during point forming the jacket GROWS!
That is not an issue with the size of the ejection pin. It's a technique issue.
You are also talking about carbide dies and I am talking about small diameter tool steel dies.
I know from my own experience that in small tool steel dies the core seater is the one to wear out first in most casese because of the very small difference between the dies (match) typically .0002 . A bad operator can expand or crack a small tool steel die .0002 on the first core seat if they use enough pressure and have a good punch seal. This gets easier as the caliber in the die gets bigger.
Hell I saw a guy completely smash an RCBS RC press using a Lee Collet die so a thin walled tool steel die is not that strong either.
Proffesional die makers do this purposely to reduce the life span of the die.
If you go back to Ted Smith he recommended .001 match which gives a lot more life to the dies.
I don't buy core seaters or core swagers anymore . I just buy a point former and make the other dies to suit with a .001 match for core seat.
I am working on making my own PF dies one day.
You obviously make very good dies as you have a good reputation for that but some of your bullet making explanations are confused.
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J
J. Valentine
Guest
For just BR bullets there is not a huge advantage if you are talking 6mm only .
However if you are taking bigger calibers then the Walnut hill will handle way bigger and longer bullets than a reloading press will. You have more flexibility and leverage over a longer ram movement at your disposal.
Well I'm assembling my setup one piece at a time. I have the walnut hill press and I'll probably go with blackmon for my 30 caliber dies. I have located a local source for lead wire. They sell .250 lead wire in 18 inch strips packed in 50lb boxes. Will these size wire strips hinder the core cutting process as opposed to using lead wire that comes on a roll?
What is a good core cutter to purchase as well? I'll probably use the blackmon cutter since I'm getting his dies.
Are you guys buying jackets direct from berger or through retailers like Brunos?
Thanks in advance.
What is a good core cutter to purchase as well? I'll probably use the blackmon cutter since I'm getting his dies.
Are you guys buying jackets direct from berger or through retailers like Brunos?
Thanks in advance.
Br Bullet making
Im sure the lead in 18 inch strips won't be much of a problem.
We have to cut lengths off the roll and straighten the wire any way . thats how i do it. others can use a full roll , they have some type of feed systen to straighten the wire. Most of the core cutters i have seen are the scissors type {just basicly two plates , with a hole in one and some kind of stop to adjust the wire length. They are not fancy. There are a few electric core slug cutters around. Jason coye made a few with his gand father Wendel.
I have an old herters that feeds from the top .
I don't know how many bullets you plan to make , But if you want to make a lot i would go the carbide type dies, I know valentine likes tool steel and george and I like carbide. I like the carbide because it's slicker and requires less bullet lube. I know they are more expensive but i think they are worth the money. I'm sure they hold there value better also.
I know most of the die makers make a core cutter so i guess it's your choice. Most of the information here has been really good and hang in there on your bullet making.
Im sure the lead in 18 inch strips won't be much of a problem.
We have to cut lengths off the roll and straighten the wire any way . thats how i do it. others can use a full roll , they have some type of feed systen to straighten the wire. Most of the core cutters i have seen are the scissors type {just basicly two plates , with a hole in one and some kind of stop to adjust the wire length. They are not fancy. There are a few electric core slug cutters around. Jason coye made a few with his gand father Wendel.
I have an old herters that feeds from the top .
I don't know how many bullets you plan to make , But if you want to make a lot i would go the carbide type dies, I know valentine likes tool steel and george and I like carbide. I like the carbide because it's slicker and requires less bullet lube. I know they are more expensive but i think they are worth the money. I'm sure they hold there value better also.
I know most of the die makers make a core cutter so i guess it's your choice. Most of the information here has been really good and hang in there on your bullet making.
andre3k: Buying your core wire in 18" precut strips is pretty slick and will save you some hassle and time. But make sure your supplier can tell you whether it's the corroding or noncorroding type. Being able to specify the antimony percentage from your supplier is a must. For my .30 Blackmon dies, I like to use a 1% antimony mix rather than the standard .5% ratio. I've used about 3,000 .5% cores recently and they sure shoot great. But I like how the jackets act with the 1% mix over the .5% brew.
With a 1% mix, I get less lead buildup on the leading edge of the core seating punches than with the .5%. The core seated jackets eject cleaner and the jacket shortening when seating cores is more consistent with the harder core material.
This is relative for my setup and my technique. And I sure wouldn't say this would transfer directly to someone else's stuff using different dies, blah, blah, blah....
The Blackmon core cutter works fine. I have mine mounted so the wire is fed in vertically. The cut cores drop out the bottom into a little bucket placed just below the cutter so the cores don't get nicked and dinged by a long fall.
When getting your dies from Larry, I'd advise getting three 'punch holders' so you can keep the core squirt, core seating and point dies as seperate assemblies. Otherwise, you'll have to swap everything into your one 'punch holder' each time you change steps. Keeping each die as a seperate unit allows you to quickly make small adjustments and is a real time saver. Three core seating punches (in .001 increments) would also be a wise step to take right from the start. Sonner or later, you'll need to adjust the core punch diameter to work with the core material/jacket lot you're working with. Lacking an asst. of different sized punches, your only recourse will be to alter the core weight to get them to come off the punch. When this happens, your first instinct is to go with a smaller core seating punch....when the opposite is usually the case. A larger punch allows less bleed-by around the top of the core. Excessive bleed-by can allow the core 'hang' onto the punch and make ejection difficult.
Again, it's a balancing act...cores/core material/jackets/jacket lots/lube. But good tools and a common sense mechanical approach will have you making good bullets in short order.
If it wasn't pretty simple, I sure wouldn't be able to do it......
With a 1% mix, I get less lead buildup on the leading edge of the core seating punches than with the .5%. The core seated jackets eject cleaner and the jacket shortening when seating cores is more consistent with the harder core material.
This is relative for my setup and my technique. And I sure wouldn't say this would transfer directly to someone else's stuff using different dies, blah, blah, blah....
The Blackmon core cutter works fine. I have mine mounted so the wire is fed in vertically. The cut cores drop out the bottom into a little bucket placed just below the cutter so the cores don't get nicked and dinged by a long fall.
When getting your dies from Larry, I'd advise getting three 'punch holders' so you can keep the core squirt, core seating and point dies as seperate assemblies. Otherwise, you'll have to swap everything into your one 'punch holder' each time you change steps. Keeping each die as a seperate unit allows you to quickly make small adjustments and is a real time saver. Three core seating punches (in .001 increments) would also be a wise step to take right from the start. Sonner or later, you'll need to adjust the core punch diameter to work with the core material/jacket lot you're working with. Lacking an asst. of different sized punches, your only recourse will be to alter the core weight to get them to come off the punch. When this happens, your first instinct is to go with a smaller core seating punch....when the opposite is usually the case. A larger punch allows less bleed-by around the top of the core. Excessive bleed-by can allow the core 'hang' onto the punch and make ejection difficult.
Again, it's a balancing act...cores/core material/jackets/jacket lots/lube. But good tools and a common sense mechanical approach will have you making good bullets in short order.
If it wasn't pretty simple, I sure wouldn't be able to do it......
Al and Gerry I appreciate the information and I've kept up with this thread from the start. I've always thought about swaging but this thread combined with the deal that I got on the RCE press motivated me to get serious about bullet making.
I'll be sure to find out about the antimony percentage in the lead wire.
I'll be sure to find out about the antimony percentage in the lead wire.
geo.ulrich
Member
Joe, now we agree i wouldn't recomend a small pin in steel either.as for statement about jackets shrinking sorry for confusion,what i mean is on a small e.pin die you can push bullet into a point where jacket material looses length.when all is done correctly jackets shrink during core seat and grow in length during pointup,this is with j4 jackets not other makes also if ogive gets much below say a 6.5 you will not lengthen as much on point up. george
John Parrish
New member
Lead Suppliers
Would you guys be willing to share your sources for lead wire? I'm currently using .185" lead from Corbin's. Their price is a bit steep, and I think I'd like to try the .5 - 1% anitmony lead. Thanks
Would you guys be willing to share your sources for lead wire? I'm currently using .185" lead from Corbin's. Their price is a bit steep, and I think I'd like to try the .5 - 1% anitmony lead. Thanks
Try ABM Lead Corp in Huffman, TX. (281-360-0888) you would have to ask about the antimony mix because I'm not sure what they use. Price was about $120 per 50 lb box which is the smallest amount you can order.
Br bullet maing
John ' Your up there in washington state.
I'm not sure what Corbons prices are but shipping any distance may cost you even more. I would place a few phone calls First.
I looked at the RCE site. They carry Molds to mold lead slugs. You can then swage them to weight.
A tad more work then wire but it is an alternate way to get good cores. It works i did it before. I managed to hold core weight with little trouble.
You use pure lead ingots and a melting pot like the lee furnace.
John ' Your up there in washington state.
I'm not sure what Corbons prices are but shipping any distance may cost you even more. I would place a few phone calls First.
I looked at the RCE site. They carry Molds to mold lead slugs. You can then swage them to weight.
A tad more work then wire but it is an alternate way to get good cores. It works i did it before. I managed to hold core weight with little trouble.
You use pure lead ingots and a melting pot like the lee furnace.
B
Big Al
Guest
This thread would be funny if folks knew the major use of antimony was. The major reason why it's used is to reduce the wear on dies.
BR Bullet Making
Anyone,
When you sort your bullets do you use a bullet comparator. How much variation do you get from bullet to bullet? I am getting about +.001 to .0015” on my 112grs. I am using a comparator like the one in the Sinclair catalog page 41. And how much variation can you have before you should not use the bullet. I try to sort my bullets in groups less than .002” difference.
john
Anyone,
When you sort your bullets do you use a bullet comparator. How much variation do you get from bullet to bullet? I am getting about +.001 to .0015” on my 112grs. I am using a comparator like the one in the Sinclair catalog page 41. And how much variation can you have before you should not use the bullet. I try to sort my bullets in groups less than .002” difference.
john
Br Bullet making
Most of the ogives are pretty close on hand swaged bullets.
The key is not to get your dies too hot.
It sounds like your doing Ok on quality control on the bullets your using.
If your jaming into the lands like a 30 br i think you will be ok. Just use your shorter bullets to start with.
Most of the ogives are pretty close on hand swaged bullets.
The key is not to get your dies too hot.
It sounds like your doing Ok on quality control on the bullets your using.
If your jaming into the lands like a 30 br i think you will be ok. Just use your shorter bullets to start with.