Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)

geo.ulrich said:
I did not steer anybody to small ejection pins quite the opposite , you miss read it .
Small ejection pins will cause ejection problems if they penertrate the meplat because ejection force is too high for the small area covered by the pin face. They can bend also. Good ejecting dies can get away with smaller pins but some are not so good especially after a bit of wear as die makers tend to leave a very small amount of wear available in the core seater. Some only .0002 . It does not take much wear to be a miss match with the point former.
I have seen a few long ogive dies that the polish on the die was not that good right up the narrow meplat end and they had very slight double ogives.
Of course good dies are good dies in any ogive but smaller ogives are easier to make and get perfect. Also shorter ogives produce nice smooth ogives with less wrinkles.
Click to expand...

Joe, i never said that you steered anyone into small ejec. pins ,what i said was that i don't recomend to new bullet makers, perhaps you misread. small pins can pierce meplat and so can larger ones. you say good ejecting dies will work with smaller pins but some are not so good won't this is a die problem not the size of the ejection pin. also what you are saying is that the core seater wears faster than the point die ,no they wear the same.also bending ejection pins is a die design problem to soft of a pin or to thin a web to support the ejection pin. also the long ogives with what you call polish that was not as good at the narrow meplat this again is a die problem not ejec. pin size. a shorter ogive probably will give fewer wrinkles but lube,die finish and jacket hardness comes into play.i have made dies with ejection pins down to .040 on 6mm and they eject as good as .062 i make. as i said the small ejection pin causes other problems other than not ejecting the bullet from the die. i guess with what you have said the vld's that are being made won't work to good. george[/QUOTE]

I do not agree that the point former wears as quick as the core seater in general . In six sets of dies I have had in the past it was the cores seater that lost it's critical diameter first. After making a new core seater in every case the point former returned to good ejection and good bullets.
The core seater is prone to receiving more abuse than the point former which is part of the reason. However you don't want people to know that.
I never said a small ejection pin will not work. I said " Good ejecting dies can get away with smaller pins " That means well made dies work better with smaller pins than poorly made dies. That's a proven fact because I have had poorly made dies that developed bad ejection with a small pin and eventually broke a pin. I converted the point former to a larger pin and made a new core seater with a proper match and it now works good. That does not say anything about VLD not working.
Fact is George you are saying that small pins cause other problems but you will not part with any help in that regard.
You seem to think that only perfect dies exist and every die ever made is perfectly straight and functions perfect in every way.
That's just not the real world.
As I said before it is easier to make an accurate well made ogive if it's shorter rather than longer in general. If you have a professional shop it becomes more of a mute point. This thread did not start about PROFESSIONAL DIE MAKING. It started about amatures making their own bullets and stuff .
 
Br bullet maing

Marlowjoe'
Back to your question.
Clean lead free of oxidation is the key to making good cores.
The lead must be of a high quality free from contamination.
I'm lucky i have a good lead source.
My lead comes on 25 or 50 lb spools.
It's wrapped in saran wrap to keep it clean.
The wire is cut off in lengths and then cut into slugs that are a tad over weight about .8 gr. I dont use any lube to swage the lead just a tad of moisture from a small water container. Thats enough in my dies.
I don't use any lubes like a lot of other people. My way is if you don't put anything on to you don't have to take anything off. If you like you can oxidize the cores in some white vinegar later. then a final wash in hot water.
I dry my die out after all of my cores are made and give them a shot of wd 40 and a light lube. When i use it next time i clean it up a bit and make sure the solvents are gone. I then make a few throw away slugs that go in the scrap pail with the sweepings from the cores.
I have two 6mm dies one is a 7 1/2 and the other is a 8 ogive one has the standard knock out pin and one has the smaller knock out pin. Both work really well. I like the B+A style dies best.
One way to store your cores in by vaccume packing them in bags. Air is the culprit . Keep them air tight if you can. George also told you about lubing them for storage that will work also..
ITS not rocket Science just good quality control.
 
marlowjoe said:
Guys, How many times do you boil and wash your cores?

Do any of you cut your core's and store them unwashed, so you have them

What would you use to keep the core's from oxidizing until needed?
Click to expand...

Joe, I squirt my cores using Marvel Mystery Oil as a lube. To remove the lube, the cores go into J4 jacket buckets with some camp stove fuel (white gas), get swished around good and then air dried to get rid of the solvent stink.

To boil them, Simple Green concentrate mixed with water per the labels 'heavy cleaning' directions does a nice job in a 5 minute boil. Others I know use Spic 'N Span and Oxy Clean powder with good results. Not a lot of science here....just a good cleaning to get the remaining solvent and grease off. Simple Green is good because it doesn't stink up the house and it's biodegradable.

After coming out of the boil, they get rinsed off with hot running tap water in a colander, spread out on a old towel and patted dry. Then, they get spread on a dry paper towel for a day. Within a few hours, they'll take on a dull gray look. I don't like my cores heavily etched...just cleaned with a smooth surface. Then they get packed into plastic tubs and labeled with weight, antimony info, etc. and stored until used. A small dessicant pack gets tossed into the storage tubs as well. If I'm not going to use them for a few months, the lube stays on.

Keeping cores made up is a double edged deal. It's the suckiest (if that's not a real word, it should be :D) part of bullet making. It's nice :rolleyes: to take your beating once, make up t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-s at a time and get the misery over with. I'd rather put my digits in a vise and start tightening it, than make cores......:eek:

At the same time, jacket weights can vary enough that if you're stuck on a particular 'number' for your bullets to weigh, you can be in for a surprise. Since I'm a little guy bullet maker, I keep ahead by having my cut cores done to work with the high and low side of jacket weights. That way, the worst that happens is I have a bit of extra 'squirt off' if the jackets are heavy. But at least half the agony is over and all I need to do is run 'em through the squirt die.

My view from the cheap seats........... -Al
 
Stephen Perry said:
Anybody out there got into making benchrest quality bullets in the last year or two.

Like to hear your bullet making experience in your first year or two of bullet making. If you have any questions ask them here there are plenty of bullet makers on BR Central. I have been making 22 and 6 bullets for the last 10 years.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...

I have been making my own bullets for 15 years,it is boring,like watching paint dry.
It takes 3 pulls of the press handle to produce one bullet plus you have to mix your lube,and also cut the cores and also clean the bullets after making them.
I'm like Jackie,if i shoot BR anymore,i'll just think about buying bullets,and i have 4 sets of dies and 6 point dies,no,they ain't for sale.
 
Rookie

Hi, everyone.

Concerning Larry lackmon's dies, I have never come across his e-mail adress and was wondering if he would rather be contacted in a more conventional manner.

I'm from South Africa (completely different time zone) and would hate to call him at 3:00 in the morning to discuss his thoughts on shank ogive ratios.

Would it be possible for someone to give a ballpark figure on the cost of a set of his .30 dies.I understand that he only does this recreationally and thus would rather bug you lot than bother the nice man.
 
I beg your pardon gentlemen.
It seems i should first have registered as a member before navigating the search function.The information i wished for was allready discussed under another thread exept for pricing.
However I shall contact larry shortly after this post is done.
 
I do not agree that the point former wears as quick as the core seater in general . In six sets of dies I have had in the past it was the cores seater that lost it's critical diameter first. After making a new core seater in every case the point former returned to good ejection and good bullets.
The core seater is prone to receiving more abuse than the point former which is part of the reason. However you don't want people to know that.
I never said a small ejection pin will not work. I said " Good ejecting dies can get away with smaller pins " That means well made dies work better with smaller pins than poorly made dies. That's a proven fact because I have had poorly made dies that developed bad ejection with a small pin and eventually broke a pin. I converted the point former to a larger pin and made a new core seater with a proper match and it now works good. That does not say anything about VLD not working.
Fact is George you are saying that small pins cause other problems but you will not part with any help in that regard.
You seem to think that only perfect dies exist and every die ever made is perfectly straight and functions perfect in every way.
That's just not the real world.
As I said before it is easier to make an accurate well made ogive if it's shorter rather than longer in general. If you have a professional shop it becomes more of a mute point. This thread did not start about PROFESSIONAL DIE MAKING. It started about amatures making their own bullets and stuff .[/QUOTE] Joe, i know this started as bullet making for amatures ,ithink your post #257 started this whole thing with the problems YOU have with your dies.and yes i do have a shop and guess what we actually make carbide bullet dies.with the 100+ dies that were made last year i get a whole lot of input. i have not had any one tell me thier core seater wore faster than the point die.i even spoke to one of the larger benchrest bullet makers and asked how long he has been using his core seater its in the 12yr. range with no measurable wear at this point. my own experiance with the 30+ point dies i have and the only 2 per caliber 1 bt and 1 fb with the 300,000 bullets i have made over the last two yrs. there is no wear. now on to the small ejection pins heres a little lesson,if lube is right tight ejection will only be caused by a couple of things, 1-lousy finish in die .you see finish and easy ejection go hand in hand,2- die is oversize where radius meets bearing surface.[to Al Nyhus this is probably the problem you were having in your one die as i have seen a few with this problem from the die maker.] 3- a grossly oversize seated core i mean in the .0005 area. these are the three problems with ejection,why wouldn't you return dies if there was a problem?about the vld's what is meant is with such a long taper and a small ejec. pin this should be nothing but a real pain to work with according to what you say. as for straight dies i have chacked a whole bunch of dies by just about everyone that makes them and all the cavities are straight,i think i'll stop there on this. Stephen, i commend you for the help you are trying to get for new bullet makers but as i said before there is alot of wives tails and misinformation being given out my offer still stands to anyone needing help can either email or send a pm i will respond with my phone#,i actually have heard from a few and all have responded that bullet making is now easier after i explained how everything should work. george
 
Joe, i almost forgot you want me to expound on the other problems that a small ejection pin causes.when you point a bullet in a die with lets say a 6mm with an .045 ejec. pin and as most people with this type of die really want aa small meplat they go in to far until jacket material shrinks in length causing the bond to the core in the ogive to come loose. simple rules while core seating jacket must shrink,during point up jacket must grow in length george
 
George: Thanks for the great info. Having insight from a professional die maker is a big help to a home bullet builder like myself. :cool:

It was good to meet you at the IBS Score Nationals last season...hope we can catch up somewhere this season. :) -Al
 
marlowjoe

One of the reasons I started this Thread was to help guys like you get started in bullet making. What kind of dies are you considering buying? Lots of help here for new bullet makers.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
horizontal press

George, I seem to recall reading about a horizontal press that you manufacture on saubier.com, and that uncle Randy would try and
persuade you to convert the lee classic swage presses.
Would you mind e-mailing or posting prices for these items?
 
Reply

Stephen, I am having a set of 30 cal 7 OG carbide dies made by Niemi. I plan on having a set of 6mm, 7 OG carbide dies made also at a later date. That is what I decided to build after I spoke to Mr. Ulrich the other day. That is why I asked about the best Ogive for the 66 to 68 gr flat base bullets. I know some barrels seem tune easier with certain Ogives. I would rather ask a question and know for fact, than to go on Uninformed. I also know that there are a lot of things said that are not quite right, But I take it as some one trying to help. Usually some one comes to straighten it all out. And I have even called some of these good guys and have gotten very good info. I reallythink this is a great forum and all the Guys here are just Super. And I will from time to time ask questions, they may not be worded correctly :eek: but that's ok with me. I am not a rocket scientist. Just some one looking to learn something else,before my time is up..;)

and by the way Thanks Al for the info.... And I like your post of the colander:cool::D
 
G.Ulrich

George I feel responsible for getting this bullet making Thread going. I don't understand your comment that old wives tales and misinformtion has been given out in this Thread. I have made bullets long enough to know if there have been some of the claims you make. I feel everbody that has commented has spoken from experience, that is what is good about this thread.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
Stephen, i think i comended what you have done here a few lines ago.this is the most interesting thread that i have ever seen on here. what bothers me is when statements are made only this will work or if this is not done like this bullets won't be as good.this is total nonsence as i said before i get to test a whole lot of things that people say won't work or will work. you would be surprised at some things that are being done by some of the larger b.r. bullet makers that everyone on this thread has said you can not do, the bullets will not shoot and these bullets are winning matches. it seems alot of people really try to make this a whole lot harder than it really is all thats needed is to follow a few good steps and bullets will shoot good and more important be consistant from lot to lot. george
 
G. Ulrich

George I agree with you that some need not claim that only their system works. I apoligize if I read you wrong. With the quality of dies we have to work with I don't see how one could make bad bullets, especially if the core seating operation is done well.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top