Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)

A couple of years ago, I was talking to one of the better shooters at a Visalia match, I noticed that he was shooting moly coated bullets. Curious, I asked him about his experience with them. He told me that he had been coating bullets ever since the information first became available in Precision Shooting, and used the original method with a RCBS tumbler, steel shot and wax coating. He also mentioned that he felt that he had gotten a longer accuracy life from his barrels as a result, and that the barrel that he was using at the match had , I forget 2,200 or 2,500 rounds on it, and it was still shooting well. As testimony to that, later that day, under conditions that were not at all easy, he shot a sub .2 group at 200. I believe it was an .18. In any case, the kicker was that he cleans between every match, just as if he were shooting uncoated bullets, with BBS patches and a bronze brush.
 
Br bullet maing

Maybe it will help some in the long range fields.
The Baron Nitriate is the new magic coating'
I did Hear a phone call about rifling missing from a barrel.
The person called a barrel maker complaining about the rifling being shot out. He said he had 800 rounds on the new barrel and the rifling was gone.
He was told shoot moly and never clean your barrel again.
Anyone remember the ad ? Any way the barrel was sent to the maker and the barrel was saved somewhat by lapping the Moly out.
The same barrel maker advises using Naked bullets only.
 
coating

Hi, Guys. I have not been on the forum for quite a while, but I've taken a look at some of the bullet making posts here, certainly not all of them:eek:
Looks like the bases are covered...........cleanliness, lube, attention to detail, dies etc. Then the topic of coatings came up and I have to add my 2 cents worth.
A customer wanted moly coated bullets, so I mollied them up with Midway's moly in a pickle jar with a piece of 1/4inch dowel epoxied to the inside of the jar. The jar was put into a Thumblers Tumbler with a bunch of rags around it to keep it from breaking. Then I tumbled the bullets (without the jar) in some rags just to shine them up a bit.
Next thing I know the schmuck didn't want the moly and switched to naked bullets. Here I sit with 5K moly bullets!
I thought I'd see if it could be removed by more tumbling in clean rags, and managed to get some of the moly off and they just looked like they were tarnished. I shot them and they were great! Cleaned the rifle like normal and had no problems with the old 8 to 10 shot thing at get them to settle in.
I termed it "minimum moly" and shot a bunch of them.
I mentioned it to Randy Robinette one day and he just smiled and said that the process I had done was essentially "stress releaving" the bullet.
Worked for me.
Food for thought.
ba
 
Bryan of Zia Bullets

Bryan you didn't introduce yourself properly. Bry is the former owner with his beautiful wife Karen of ZIA Bullets in Raton, New Mexico. Bryan made the 6's Karen made the 22's. One year I took my family on a nice vacation to New Mexico. Just happened to be in Raton one of the days and stopped in to see Bry's shop. First thing that hit me was it was nearly spotless. Bryan and I are like peas and carrots about making bullets, the vinegar etching was a Bryan trademark now I use it.

I consider Bry somebody I can trust about anything I talk about BRC with. You guys have been evaluated many times on the phone with Bryan. Most of you guys have recieved passing marks. Some of you guys are off my chart going down not up.

So I have 2 bullet making Mentors was 3 till Allen Bench died a few years back. Bry If he keeps talking on the bullet making Thread is a good read, he is in the BR FAQ's section here on BRC talking bullets. Bry was meticullous about measuring bullets during making and finished his numbers were some of the best I have ever seen.

Thanks Bry for coming by and sharing, you are a true friend for life.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Thanks, Steve........

Thanks for the kind words. Karen and I always prided ourselves with making some of the finest bullets available. Bart Sauter has those dies now, and still makes them available under the Zia name.
Pressures at work and the seeming need for March scopes and the like prompted me to take a break from BR this year. It was just getting too hard to compete, let alone the expenses involved. I'll be out to the Raton matches to see everyone and watch the records fall. I may even get into bullet making again someday. For now, (get this!) I'm spending my time with RC Helicopters! What goes up must come down...........sometimes with devastating results!
Good Shootin' to you all
ba
 
Br Bullet making

I just received a new boat tail seating die from David Detsch,
It is a 14 degree rebated bt die. So far so good. The 65 gr bullets made on it shoot extreamly well. I have also made some 80 gr bt bullets on it for the dasher.. The groups are very good with both weights.
One group with a guess on the powder made a nice .200 at 100 with the dasher . I plan on doing more weights to see what results i get, especially with the dasher. I have 1.050 jackets and 1. 150 jackets in 6mm to try.
The boat tail is .100 long and shows some promise.
I'll also try some 68gr bullets on the 825 jacket. The 8 og die i use seems to drift way less then the 7.5 die. I think adding the bt may help shrink groups especially at 200yds.
 
Redding Boss Press/ Bullet coating

Any one using the Redding Boss press? What do you think about it? Any quirks that someone using one should know about?

And thank you Stephen, I contacted Bruno about the jackets.

I also coat my bullets with HBN and some with Danzak (old name) I am told.
I have to raise my loads by a few grs. to get back in to the accuracy node. But I do not see any pressure signs because I shoot at the slower velocity node. But that's just me. I have chronied many rounds. And found what works for my rifle. Cleaning is another thing. I have less copper with the coatings and can shoot a few more rounds between scrubbing. Which I also do. I am not sure that any of the coatings do not trap moisture between it and the metal and do not want to chance it. :)
 
Bullet Coating With .30 Cal bullets

Marlowjoe
I will be using coated bullets in the Ruger 77 .308 Varmint I am to buy. I shoot Cast as much as I do jacketed and want to maintain the barrel so to be able to use both bullets effectively. Bullet coatings will help me do that. You made a good point of the slight increase of load to use when adding coated bullets to your loading operation.

Who sells the boron nitrate and what is the application ?

You're smart. Keep Posting.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Br bullet making

Theres a great article on bullet coating and it effect on 6mmbr.com.
It in the articles section. It covers molly and the other coatings.
Stephen I have heard some good things about coating lead bullets.
It seems to work very well .
Im sure also that the redding boss press will be a good one for bullet swaging.
I would ask redding if you could get one without all of the rams top cut outs.
That way it would be easier to convert it to a bullet making ram.
 
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core seating

OK guy's here we go, I finally got my dies and press from Larry Blackmon. I have squirted a bunch of cores and I have kept their weight to within .1gn, not an easy task. Next I washed the cores and have been working on the core seating operation. I got some lube from Gary Conaway that is slicker then cat , I put 500 in a 2 1/2 qt canning jar after I measured out some lube and smeared it on all sides of the jar and tumbled away for about an hour. Now I'm ready to set up the core seating die and go at it, wrong, the punch is way to big, I didn't send Larry any jackets for him to send the right punch. I have been working at reducing the diameter of the punch .0001 at a time until it goes into the core filled jacket without scratching the inside of the jacket and just a coating of lead is above the seated core on the wall of the jacket, you have to look real hard to see it with one of those ear and nose thingies, I don't see any scratching or lead on the punch.
Now for a couple of questions, I have 1 inch 30cal J4 jackets, how much can I expect the jacket to shrink after the core seating process? I am getting .012. Next the inside diameter of the die is .3077, when I have applied enough pressure in seating the core and have reached that diamension, do I have a properly seated core?

Thanks
Dan Honert
 
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Br bullet making

When the jacket sticks to the walls of the core seater and doesn't stick to the punch the core pressure should be right. It's easier to tell on the B&A style dies. Just make sure that no lube has entered the jacket before seating.{be careful} Make sure no lube is on your hands. when handling the core.
Place the core in the with the clean right hand. place the lubed jacket into the core seater with the
Left hand that has a tiny bit of lube on it. Remember Larrys dies are mostly tool steel and require more lube then carbide dies. I would put a tiny bit of lube on my fingers on the left hand and place it in the pointer, after a few bullets you should get a handle on how much lube you need on your fingers for pointing. Watch for swage marks. The less marks the better.
I hope this helps a bit. Gerry
 
Stephen Perry

I got my HBN from a Good Guy on 6mmbr, who goes by the handle Idaho _Elk_ Huntr. Good guy to deal with. He mat still have some. Send him a pm, I am sure he will answer. If not let me know and I will send you some to try...

take care and God Bless :eek:
 
Dan

Here's the deal and there's no since concerning yourself with much else as you have no control.

Set your core seating die such that there is "almost" a shiny stretch ring on the jacket. You don't know where that is until you go there. If the seated core/jacket comes off the punch EVERY TIME and you're not rupturing jackets - that's all you can do. It doesn't matter what happens in the measurement department.

Take that die setting and develop a consistent stroke. Done deal - go shoot!

BTW, you mentioned that your cores were within .0001. If that's .0001 grains then you'll be needing to tell us how you do that.
 
So True Wilbur. You might have learned from Ed Watson. Talking to Ed many times about bullet making in the past Ed seems to have taught many in the SE bullet making 101 and after, Ed was a Master Bullet Maker. OK I'll let it out, Lowell Frei is my Bullet Making Mentor, still is, talked to him a couple days ago. His mouth is watering but his back says no Super Shoot this year, maybe next year. Lowell is 67 and a handicapped many times over HoF BR Shooter and World/NBRSA record holder, and World Team member. Still shoots though from his Utah/Colorado base, where he smiths his own and makes bullet his own.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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The only bullet advice I got from Ed was how to BUY bullets. Jeff Fowler handed over some "secret squirrel" info after he made me swear I would never ever, ever, ever tell anybody. Walt Berger told me everything he knew or could think of knowing about bullet making over the phone without reservation.

I wish I could tell y'all what Jeff showed me...
 
Wilbur said:
Here's the deal and there's no since concerning yourself with much else as you have no control.

Set your core seating die such that there is "almost" a shiny stretch ring on the jacket. You don't know where that is until you go there. If the seated core/jacket comes off the punch EVERY TIME and you're not rupturing jackets - that's all you can do. It doesn't matter what happens in the measurement department.

Take that die setting and develop a consistent stroke. Done deal - go shoot!

BTW, you mentioned that your cores were within .0001. If that's .0001 grains then you'll be needing to tell us how you do that.
Click to expand...

Thanks Wilbur, I talk to Jeff Summers last night and he said from what I told him I have things just about right, he'll take a look at things when he gets back from the SS, he is in 8th place in the grand as of last night.

Now lets get down to business about secrets. Remember long ago in a far far away galaxy when you and that special little girl were curious and said "I'll show you mine if you show me yours"? Now if you want to email me or pm me that little secret I'll share mine with you. I swear not to tell anyone.
 
Wilbur honor Jeff's wishes. You probably knew some of Jeff's past.back in the 70's Jeff managed /partnered Bruner Shooters a whoelsale/retatil shooting supply out of Tennessee, hope I'm correct on Tennessee. Later Jeff moved to Texas to do the same in benchrest as manager/partner of Fowler's Shooting Supply business. While in Texas Jeff became a really well known BR shooter making the HoF in 83 with Walt and Morton, World team, 3 consecutin\ve NBRSA 3/4 gun Championships hope I got that right, Super Shoot winner several times, Geraci's bud and competitor. Geraci is still competing has several Super Shoot titles 4 I'm told and many HoF points and records. Geraci is one of my all-time benchrest favorites but Jeff and Tony are close. Some remember Tom Gilman of Arkansas, how come so many well known giants of the BR World come from the East and South like Walker, Hart family, Page, Kelbly, Berger while in the East now in the West, Gentner, Shilen, Fowler, Borden, Bart bullets, Euber bullets, Fowler bullets, Remington bullets. Benchrest in the East was heavily supported by Remington from the 1950's until the commercial giants of actions, barrels, and bullets have taken over, when you research that I have my feelings about that. Out West we have our giants like Wilson, McMillan, Pride, Weber, Brown, Six, Jewell, Davidson, Bruno, Berger, Ocock, Stiller, Frei, Bishop bullets Allen Bench, and now Thornberry. Mid West has it's giants Enlebrecht, Hoehn, Sinclair, Morton, Krieger. Can't continue, too many names and I have to live with some of these guys at the BR Ranges, like Nielson. And I'm sure I left many favorites and greats off my list.This is not important who is on my list, my list, make your own.

Jeff was the provider and rep. of his own company/partner serving the BR World for years first from Tennessee, Texas and later South Carolina. Correct me if you find errors. Probably where Jeff got his interest in benchrest and met the Kelbly family. Jeff was special in the BR sport like the Kelbly and Berger families, my choice of contributing benchrest shooting families, so many in the benchrest families, many known some only locals know, we all in the BR family have given time, expertise, and guts to move the Sport forward, like you Wilbur with BRC. Jeff as most know built benchrest quality bullets for many years. As like myself and other fortunates Jeff, Walt, Watson, Frei made their 22 bullets on Rorschach dies first steel later carbide, I have 22 carbide Rorschach dies. Now don't get me wrong Simonson, Detsch, Ulrich, Nemi, Blackmon and more are known for their 22, 6 and 30 dies. Which dies does Hottenstein use to make his fanatastic BR bullets on ?

I'm in deep on bullet making, gunsmithing, manufacturing and shootin history now. Might get some concerned remarks if I have fibbed some. Best back off. Day 3 shooters are at their benches. God bless benchrest. God bless the Super Shoot. Keep safe. Shoot well.
Done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Thanks Gerry for the reply, I did put a little lube on my fingers on my left hand and dropped the core in with my right so as not to contaminate the clean core.
 
Oops

OK Wilbur you caught me making an a-- of myself, that should read .1gn, and even at that it is not an easy task. I guess I shouldn't let my fingers do the walking after a few gin and tonics.:eek:
 
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