Bench Rotation

I guess I have to agree with you to a degree. Personally I find rotation difficult. I think that a good shooter can adapt, i.e., do you think it would matter which bench Harry Duneen, D.J. Hepler, Bob Collins, Rod Collins, Kent Owens, etc. shot from. I think not . They are inherently good shooters who adapt to the new condition. I am not against bench rotation, my 70+ year old body is. My major complaint is that rules are made and put up on the web site; but who goes to the rule book for information, as they assume it will be posted by Wilbur on the Rimfire board. Nuff said. See you in August.
I'm done and ready for the Crawfish. Thanks Bill Smith, for your post.
 
"You can't see the wood grain on those but my is illegal by your terms. What gives ? I asked if I could sand just the butt and forend and was told no,just to prove it was wood. It seems the rules apply to the choosen."

First of all, welcome to rimfire BR.
The rules are easy to find, but not always easy to understand. Amen? Not enough folks read them and understand 'em, kinda like golf;)

The paint on stocks was kicked around many years ago. like great wood so my sporter stocks are just that, clearcoated wood.
However, if I recall the rule it says the burden of proof is on the shooter to prove the stock is made from wood. Looks to me like if you're willing to take it out of the stock or remove the buttplate, and prove it's wood you'd be good to go.
 
What does age have to do with it ? I would and I'm sure others would help. So age is not a factor. Other then that what's the issue ? i as a new shooter doesn't seem to see an issue. Make the rules even at every match

Jim
 
The paint on stocks was kicked around many years ago. like great wood so my sporter stocks are just that, clearcoated wood.
However, if I recall the rule it says the burden of proof is on the shooter to prove the stock is made from wood. Looks to me like if you're willing to take it out of the stock or remove the buttplate, and prove it's wood you'd be good to go.[/QUOTE]So if the butt end shows wood and the fore end shows wood Im ok ? I was told No !

Pardon my question but if I do ever win a match wouldn't want to be thrown out due to my painting

Stock must be made of wood and must be designed to be shoulder fired. Laminate wood is allowed and the action area may contain bedding material. The action may be glued into the stock. Proof that the stock is made of wood is the competitors responsibility and must be accomplished to the satisfaction of the referees when requested. Visible wood grain over the entire surface of the stock shall constitute proof. so do I have to sand the whole stock for proof ?
 
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Depends on who the referees." I look at the rule that if you can prove it's wood you're ok, and if wood grain is visible over the entire stock there is NO DOUBT or REASON to even question it to begin with.
However, ten people could probably read that rule and end up argueing about what it in all actuality says.

Put it this way, if I was a referee and if you took the buttplate off and or removed the rifle from the stock and showed it was made of wood--I'd darned sure vote it legal. "Course the other 2 refs might not.
 
Kent Owens said:
Depends on who the referees." I look at the rule that if you can prove it's wood you're ok, and if wood grain is visible over the entire stock there is NO DOUBT or REASON to even question it to begin with.
However, ten people could probably read that rule and end up argueing about what it in all actuality says.

Put it this way, if I was a referee and if you took the buttplate off and or removed the rifle from the stock and showed it was made of wood--I'd darned sure vote it legal. "Course the other 2 refs might not.
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Kent I agree with you and I would be willing to do what makes it right, but suppose I was in the finals and had this issue ? A tracker stock doesn't show wood grain but also mine doesn't, I can prove mine and they can't . I guess my point is have rules and enforce them. It seems like there is rules for some and not others. If you can agree my stock is wood why wouldn't others ? Is it worth the problems ? This is just a point and nothing to do with you, I want to have fun and enjoy but I also want it to be fair........

I don't care if I win or lose just wanna have fun

Thanks
 
The wood sporter stock has been a rule in IR 50/50 since it's inception-- for 15 years that I know of. Some thought it a leap to allow birch laminates, but that has been allowed for at least 10 years. One of mine has a 3/4" wide decorative racing stripe painted down the center. Some match directors have criticized that. Show wood grain over the entire stock and save yourself a problem.

Bob
I am a few months younger than you and will help you move flags if you need it
 
Don,
What are you doing up this late? Please give me a call tomorrow, after I wake up:) Or tonight if you're still awake. Its' to your advantage....maybe.
 
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Don Stith said:
The wood sporter stock has been a rule in IR 50/50 since it's inception-- for 15 years that I know of. Some thought it a leap to allow birch laminates, but that has been allowed for at least 10 years. One of mine has a 3/4" wide decorative racing stripe painted down the center. Some match directors have criticized that. Show wood grain over the entire stock and save yourself a problem.

Bob
I am a few months younger than you and will help you move flags if you need it
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So what your saying is a painted or a tracker type stock is illegal arrcording to the rules ?
 
Well, I'm 65

jackie schmidt said:
By full rotation, do you mean after every group, (or target in score). Surely you jest.

I would say thast would insure that we would have no shooters in attendance in short time.

I am an avid Benchrest Shooter. But, if we were required to rotate after every group, I would quit.

At Tomball and Denton, we rotate after each yardage. If shooters do not want to, I will volunteer to take one or two for the entire weekend. At Seymore, New Braunfels, and Midland, the range is considered "nuetral" so we generally just stay on the same bench for the entire week end.

Well, sometimes. Two years ago, at New Braufels, the decision had been made to not rotate. John Jones and I shared bench three, and we came in first and second in the first 100. All of a sudden, (with the urging of a few shooters), the decision was made to rotate for the next yardage...........jackie
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and I have never found it onerous to rotate benches. I guess I can see if folks are infirmed then ok, it is a hardship but with 10 or a dozen folks showing up to shoot at most matches, there isn't going to be a lot of hastle simply moving the number of benches required in the rotation. so yen, full rotation. I just don't see it to be a big deal.

At some ranges and in fact, most ranges, on any given day there will be at least one Honey Hole. I think they should to be shares.
 
tuna,
If you're talking about the Indian blanket baby Tracker stocks and the checkerboard red/black one, or white/black one, if you look really close you can tell they're made of little geometric shaped pieces of wood. Makes you wonder how they glue all that together! As much glue there as wood. Guess that's why they're so pricey. Best to luck to you shooting. Hang in there. It's a very nice bunch of folks to shoot with!
 
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tuna921 said:
So what your saying is a painted or a tracker type stock is illegal arrcording to the rules ?
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You better look closer at the Tracker. It is laminated obeche with controlled lamination to give the various patterns when the stock is carved. The pattern is not painted on. Look at Brookside Veneers Colorply website
 
Kent was faster than me. Gentler too. He is obviously a better mentor to a new shooter. He is also a better shot
 
I have made an effort

jackie schmidt said:
Flags????.

At Nationals, we shoot on a flag rotation. But, at Region Matches, I shoot over MY flags......jackie
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to shoot over the flags that were on the lane I was shooting on rather they be mine or someone elses. Adds another dimention to the Sport I think.
 
Bench rules and wood

Bob Pekaar made an assumption and an inference that the rotation rules (as they exist) we're somehow "snuck in". Yes, it was "snuck in" about 5 years ago and been that way ever since. Bottom line there is the Rangemaster has a choice. For the near future, rotation will be mandantory at a national event.

If you can prove your stock is wood or laminate wood, it's good to go.
 
Out of the Blue

This comment may be out of place, but why is it a problem to follow the rules. I'm over 70, and if the rules say rotate, I have no problem with it. I vote to rotate at every match, but at 70, they think I'm senile, and pay no attention to me.
 
Just a note from one of those "CRAZY" guys in Georgia!!

Most of us like the bench rotation rule and feel it helps level the playing field. At most ranges like Jacksonville and Georgetown that have berms and treelines there are "Sweet Spots" or "Honey Holes", and if you end up on the last five benches at Jacksonville and the wind is blowing from left to right it makes for a pretty long day, but I do understand how Bob and others that have problems walking feel about moving....I really don't like it either!! Last year at Montezuma I drew bench 17 where the wind was mild compared to the other locations and I was able to shoot three great targets, which was great for me but the other shooters were at a disadvantage.... was that fair??? If some like to sit at the same bench all day.....then give them the last five benches at Jacksonville with a left to right wind and I promise you they will agree to rotating next year!!!:D:D I understand how Bob feels and I know it's hard to ask or accept help from others, but I know many of us have always been willing to help anyone if needed. I sure would miss him and others in similar situations that have some trouble getting around like they use to, because they help make our sport worthwhile. I don't have a politically correct resolution for each and every situation, but I have spoke my mind, so pile-on when your ready!! If I come to Jacksonville I'll shoot by the rangemasters rules and keep my mouth shut!!
 
I volunteer to let Dr P shoot on bench 11 every match at Rocky River barn. That way I would never have to shoot that #%&*&@ bench again. Not real sure if he beat me to 70 or not
 
Wilbur said:
Bob Pekaar made an assumption and an inference that the rotation rules (as they exist) we're somehow "snuck in". Yes, it was "snuck in" about 5 years ago and been that way ever since. Bottom line there is the Rangemaster has a choice. For the near future, rotation will be mandantory at a national event.

Firstly I apologize for starting this thread. I was informed by my rangemaster that the rotation rules were changed and all Regional and State mates had to rotate. I called 2 rangemasters and 2 experienced shooters and got different answers-- so there was no "assumption". Secondly, due to the confusion I reread the rules and I interpreted them as requiring rotation at all but local matches. There has been a change in the pristine wording of the prior rule that defines rotation, but you changed the wording, which I now understand. So, it was snuck in. If you can show me a post on the board that extended the List season and then was put in the rules, I will sincerely apologize. Lastly, I shoot mainly in Georgia because they are great shooters and I've learned a lot from them. My comment was a "Don Rickles" type pun and I think most of these guys know it. Now that I and Bill Smith have been banned from shooting in GA, I see no further need to discuss this. The statement by Collins that I just go there to win was a joke. I have supported GA for years and had contributed to the rebuiding of the Montezuma range.
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