Being Raked Over The Coals Over On 6BR Site

Don Nielson

Don Bill has shot at The Super Shoot but I want the guys doing all of the chatting to answer the question.

I will see You and Lou Murdica hopefully at the Nationals.Did you find the supplier for that rubber product yet?
Lynn
 
lynn

not a problem sir. and jackie i havent seen the parts yet.matter of fact i didnt get any mail today.hopefully tommorrow.i will let you know. tim in tx
 
Thanks for the reply Lynn..
I wouldn't have a clue... I haven't shot registered matches since the late 70's...

I have never been able to afford the equipment or time to get to that level... I couldn't even afford to go and watch... :D
 
No, you're not

Dennis Sorensen said:
Lynn,

I have never said anything about Bill Calfee but I have never understood his way of trying to get a point across... for me he talked riddles... and I gave up trying to decipher his posts... I don't think I am alone ...please don't go the same way with the riddles...
Click to expand...

alone.
 
Riddles,riddles

jackie schmidt said:
Lynn, I have never been to the Super Shoot. I shoot our entire Region schedule, plus the Nationals, and try to make at least one big out of Region Match a year.
There., Now, I don't like this, but I will ask you the same question, since you insist on comparing all of us to Bill Calfee.
In the past 10 years, in Registered Competition, how many individule Matches has Bill, or you for that matter, won in 100-200 yard Benchrest.?? How many Yardages??. How many Grand Aggs??. How many Two Gun Championships. How many Region Championships. How Many State Championships, How Many out of Region Championships. How many National Class Championships. How many Region Shooter of the Year Titles.
And, since we are playing 20 questions, you still have not answered my question. Who were you referring to in your post on 6mmBR who is "just trying to promote his own status and cares nothing about tuner development". It's a simple question.........jackie
Click to expand...
and the answer is jackieeee. the exclusive winner of all the above. the best in the west. the only one on this forum who competes in the Compedative arena with agging ability. talk about self promotion
 
Pwolfppc

You are right, I should not have posted that. I violated one of my own rules, that being not to get down into the "Internet Gutter" with some one else. At best, it was rude, and juvenile.
All Benchrest Shooters know that you are really no better, (as a shooter), than your next agg. When the man says "insert Bolts, commence fire", we are all dead equal. It is the nature of the game.
We try to be Gentleman on this site, I had a lapse.
To answer Lynns question, I have never been to the Super Shoot. I have to devote my time to my Business and our Gulf Coast Region Schedule, and sometimes the Nationals. In the meantime, I try to help other shooters get headed in the right direction if they have a desire to participate in Benchrest. .........jackie
 
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I find Lynn's question to be invalid at making any point. Right now I am trying to figure out what Lynn's point is. Bill Calfee is a respected rimfire gunsmith and shooter and no one I know of is trying to take that away from him. The only thing that is disputed about Bill is that he made a claim on centerfire forum and has given everyone riddles on how we can prove him right. Lots of people would like to see Bill proven right, but are tired of the riddles. Just because he did well once at the Super Shoot 30 years ago doesn't prove anything today.
But I don't think that someone can get this excited about Bill or tuners that he would blindly call all short range benchrest shooters bs'ers and swear that half the people are idiots over here without something else being the cause and he just hasn't said it yet, is there another riddle involved. What does the age of his father have to do with anything, or is that part of the riddle.
Is Lynn related to Bill Calfee?
 
Mr Calfee may have been at the Super Shoot but I don't think he won anything. Below are the winners to date.

Bart Sauter
Bart's Custom Bullets


UNLIMITED

Year
100 Yard 200 Yard Grand Aggregate

1976 Ev Amungaard Allan King Alan King

1979 Bob White John Eaton Jack Shaffer

1982 Howie Levy Don Geraci Don Geraci

1985 Larry Mixon Lester Bruno Larry Mixon

1988 Jeff Summers Perry Morton Jeff Summers




10.5 LB.

Year 100 Yard 200 Yard Grand Aggregate

1975 Joe Kurkjan Bill Minneman George Kelbly
1977 Bill Theis Howard Deitz Seely Masker
1978 Seely Masker Walt Berger Myles Hollister
1980 Lester Bruno Lester Bruno Lester Bruno
1981 Pete Richnitzer Perry Morton Perry Morton
1983 Ferris Pindell Myles Hollister Don Geraci
1984 Don Geraci Don Geraci Don Geraci
1986 Dick Maretzo Brian Rubright Tony Boyer
1987 Chuck Miller Tony Boyer Tony Boyer
1989 Speedy Gonzalez Paul Johnson Smiley Hensley
1990 Tony Boyer Norm Dixon Norm Dixon
1991 Denny Andews Don Powell Don Powell
1992 Don Gentner Gary Ocock Gary Ocock
1993 Smiley Hensley Don Neilson Smiley Hensley
1994 Gerald Forys Lester Bruno Lester Bruno
1995 Jerry Johnson Bart Sauter Bart Sauter
1996 Randy Waton Clarence Hammonds Clarence Hammonds
1997 Smiley Hensley Charles Dalessandro Lowell Frei
1998 Slip Otto Dwight Scott Dwight Scott
1999 Bill Forrester Allan Arnette Bill Forrester
2000 Brian Lemley Allan Hall Ken Hottenstein
2001 Smiley Hensley Pat Byrne Ed Hall
2002 Jack Neary Ken Terrell Gene Bukys
2003 Allie Euber Mike Ratigan Ken Hottenstein
2004 Danny Sutphin Allan Arnette Jason Garrett
2005 John Brown Mike Ratigan Billy Stevens
2006 Lester Bruno Billy Stevens Jeff Summers
2007 Gary Conaway Jason Garrett Lowell Hottenstein





13.5 LB.

Year 100 Yard 200 Yard Grand Aggregate
1973 Gerald Glaus Donna Hall Donna Hall
1973 Myles Hollister Bob White Myles Hollister
1974 T.J. Jackson Homer Culver Homer Culver
1974 Walt Berger Frank Jezerio Bill Dryfield
1975 Lou Palmisano Audy Adams Audy Adams
1976 John Hollister Noel Hutchinson Tom Metzger
1977 Harold Morgan Steve Gibbons Larry Baggett
1978 Bill Schellert Joe Vinci Jim Stekyl
1979 Gary Hayes Larry Baggett Larry Baggett
1980 Marvin Whiles Bill Forrester Fred Hasecuster
1981 Perry Morton Allie Euber Jef Fowler
1982 Lester Bruno Dale Boop Lester Bruno
1983 Don Geraci Bart Wieder Bart Weider
1984 Tony Boyer Fletcher Williams Fletcher Williams
1985 Daniele Tincani Lester Bruno Dennis Wagner
1986 Stan Starzinski Fletcher Wiiliams Fletcher Williams
1987 Joe Valentine Dick Maretzo Gary Ocock
1988 Joe Kabel Lowell Frei Lowell Frei
1989 Donald Sargood Tom Metzger Jef Fowler
1990 Jeff Summers Paul Mitchell Paul Mitchell
1991 Don Powell Robert Denton Lowell Hottenstein
1992 Lee Euber Tony Margelwicz Don Neilson
1993 Tony Boyer Bob Dodd Tony Boyer
1994 Jef Fowler Paul Mitchell Bill Rowley
1995 Paul Bielec Jef Fowler Tony Boyer
1996 Dale Rose Clarence Hammonds Clarence Hammonds
1997 Bart Sauter Jeff Gotschall Bart Sauter
1998 Ed Watson Scott Morris Fred Hasecuster
1999 Ron Hoehn Rich Griffin Fred Hasecuster
2000 Gene Bukys Allan Arnette Ken Pritt
2001 Jerry Simison Richard Farago Clarence Hammonds
2002 Tony Boyer Francois LeCorte Tony Boyer
2003 Ron Hoehn Pat Canning JD Denoff
2004 Faye Boyer Jack Sutton Jack Sutton
2005 Joe Krupa Dave Coots Joe Krupa
2006 Henry Vranian Lee Euber Kent Harshman
2007 Bill Gammon Joel Nader Kent Harshman





Two-Gun Winners

1975 Ron Prachyl 1992 Gary Ocock
1976 Allan King 1993 Tony Boyer
1977 Larry Baggett 1994 Fred Hasecuster
1978 Jim Stekyl 1995 Tony Boyer
1979 Jesse Corder 1996 Clarence Hammonds
1980 Don Geraci 1997 Eunice Berger
1981 Jef Fowler 1998 Dwight Scott
1982 Don Geraci 1999 Bill Forrester
1983 Don Geraci 2000 Ken Hottenstein
1984 Don Geraci 2001 Ed Hall
1985 Lester Bruno 2002 Tony Boyer
1986 Allie Euber 2003 Ron Hoehn
1987 Tony Boyer 2004 Mike Ratigan
1988 Jeff Summers 2005 Billy Stevens
1989 Smiley Hensley 2006 Lee Euber
1990 Allie Euber 2007 Steve Robbins
1991 Don Powell
 
Now fellers,
I think that the point was that Bill has more of an appreciation of the problems and requirements of competitive "short range” center fire Benchrest than we might have imagined. I, for one, find that information relevant to the discussion at hand. On the other hand, a simple statement pointing that out would have been a less circuitous approach. Fourth place at the Super Shoot...many of us would be tickled. I know I would.

Boyd
 
nothing better than a good cat fight. gets the blood going along with the brain. i've read the entire thread and it has been interesting to say the least. i personally have never used a tuner. weather they work as described or not i don't know, could they work as describer i don't know. what o i do know is that it works for jackie and i guess it doesn't work for fred. oh well, this is the type of argument i've heard for years. molly coat or naked bullets, turn the necks or not, use a no turn chamber or not, who's dies are better than the other guys, who's making the best barrels, and on, and on, over and over. the way i figure it what works for me won't even come close for you, what you do won't work for me, but when i find out what your doing, i'm going to try it just in case i can get something out of it, and i will. it mite help, or it mite be just another thing i know doesn't work for me. it's one more thing i can eliminate from the mix and it benefits to me, to know what doesn't work for me. asking questions is one thing if its done in a manner that extols the fact that i'm a real man and not still a child getting my feelings hurt out on the playground. have a nice day.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Now fellers,
I think that the point was that Bill has more of an appreciation of the problems and requirements of competitive "short range” center fire Benchrest than we might have imagined. I, for one, find that information relevant to the discussion at hand. On the other hand, a simple statement pointing that out would have been a less circuitous approach. Fourth place at the Super Shoot...many of us would be tickled. I know I would.

Boyd
Click to expand...

Was it 4th in the 2 gun? Or maybe 4th for a grand agg? Or 4th for an agg?
 
Boyd Allen

Boyd I find this forum very very interesting.
The first thing I hear is that Bill Calfee has no understanding of what it takes to compete in a competitive arena and shoot Agg's.
I also heard of how it takes one of these very knowledgable 100,200 yard gurus to prove what a truly competitive rifle can do.
As a longrange shooter with no experience in this arena I figured the guru's of the sport must know something that the Rimfire and Longrange shooters didn't already know.
I figured there must be a window between 50 yard Rimfire and 600 yard Benchrest were nothing worked the same because I was led to believe that by the posters right here.
Am I now to believe that the very nice and cordial gentleman from Indianna has actually shot 100,200 yard benchrest and really does know what Agg means? He finished 4th someone said is that true? Wow just a short while ago this forum was full of derogatory words for Mr Bill Calfee and I didn't see him circle the wagons nor did I see him post his bitter feelings over something that was never said.
Now Boyd if a 1,000 yard shooter know as a "keyboard Retort" shooter with zero knowledge of shooting knew this why didn't all of the experts here know this?

I got a couple of tongue compressors a paper clip and a really neat rubber band any chance these very knowledgable experts in the field of fine marksmanship can help me make a rubber band gun? Oooooppppssss my neighbor kid just came home from 3rd grade I think I'll ask him.
Lynn
 
Lawrence W. said:
Was it 4th in the 2 gun? Or maybe 4th for a grand agg? Or 4th for an agg?
Click to expand...

Who Cares? Placement at a Super Shoot many years ago likely is only important to those involved in the event. Now if Mr. Calfee had been using a "muzzle device" on his centerfire rifle during this event it may have some relevance to the current discussions. It seems quite obvious to me at this point that what works extremely well in the rimfire world does not work the same in the centerfire world. This is not to say that "muzzle devices" have no value in the centerfire world, because Jackie and others have already substantially proven that they can be used to tune the rifle.
 
J. Pendergraft said:
Who Cares? Placement at a Super Shoot many years ago likely is only important to those involved in the event. Now if Mr. Calfee had been using a "muzzle device" on his centerfire rifle during this event it may have some relevance to the current discussions. It seems quite obvious to me at this point that what works extremely well in the rimfire world does not work the same in the centerfire world. This is not to say that "muzzle devices" have no value in the centerfire world, because Jackie and others have already substantially proven that they can be used to tune the rifle.
Click to expand...

This was the point I was trying to make but said a little better.
Lynn is still talking riddles guys.
Lynn, why don't you just say what you mean and get to the point. Stop hiding behind poor Bill Calfee, we still like him for the most part.
 
I've got close to 20,000 rounds through a rimfire rifle with a tuner, but none through a tuner equipped centerfire. So I can't say how they work on centerfires. But I've read what most of you who have tried it have to say on the subject. So far, you are ALL in 100% AGREEMENT that they work EXACTLY the same way. Everything that's been reported here can be seen in a rimfire rifle. The problem seems to be that no one here has enough experience with a tuner to know what they really do. I'm not pointing fingers here. I had my own wild-ass theories on how tuners worked when I only had a few hundred rounds through one. But now I know better. Bill Calfee is right, you guys are wrong.

A couple of questions though. Why the need to re-invent the wheel? The barrel contour rules are maximums, not minimums. Why not build a centerfire along the lines of a rimfire? Tuners are a proven and much more mature technology in that discipline. Why not start with what is widely accepted (among those that have actually tried it) to work?
 
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