Age old Question- Revolver or Pistol

Why I like a 12 ga!

An incident as related to me by the officer with the12 ga:
'There had been a drive by shooting and we had pulled over the suspect vehicle. My lieutenant was in the squad car ahead of me and the suspect was standing by his car. The lieutenant had his Glock 9mm pointed at the driver at a range of six feet but the kid would not put his hands up. He just was standing there ignoring the orders. As I jumped out of my car I grabbed the 12 ga. and came up behind my lieutenant. I slid the barrel of past his shoulder while jacking a round into the chamber. The kid’s hands went up like rockets! Later as I was putting the handcuffs on him he said he was sure I was going to shoot. He also stated he had wet his pants at the sound of that round being chambered. I shined my flashlight down at his pants and sure enough…’
 
Nice points made.


Now I'd like to expand upon my reasoning a little.

A story :)

I have a friend who rides bikes all over the mountains......wayyyyy out in the boonies on his pedal bike, also cross-country town-to-town. He's ridden across the US.

So anyways, this guy decides he wants to carry a defense gun so he goes to a police officer buddy with his situation and the guy recommends a common S&W design. (Actually the guy sold him "his old carry piece" for a fair price...) Welll..... he ends up with this sweet looking little 9mm and he feels fairly secure until one day he's riding down into a ratty looking "camp" about 10mi behind nowhere and this big dude steps out from behind a tree and blocks the trail.

My friend tensed right up.

He actually had to THINK about where his gun was.......it was in his fanny pack on his right side which was his front braking hand which was locking his bike down. Long story short the situation wound down when my friend's riding buddy hove into view, weighing in at 258lb..........

So later they're riding along together talking about "the gun situation" and they decided to actually TRY this stuff ;) They're still miles from nowhere and it's totally legal to shoot to your heart's content out here...... so they tried it.

#1- reach for the fanny -pack, can't find the zipper......cancel ONE
#2- reach for the fanny pack, zipper folds up and jams.......cancel TWO
#3- reach for the pack, (repositioned to the FRONT) with it jammed against one leg....got it OPEN, now WHERE'S THE BLOODY PISTOL???....rooting around to find it (remember, dude's riding a mountain bike down a trail here, a MOUNTAIN trail...granola and grapenuts are dribbling out marking his trail.....his camera is hanging on a string.....) gets it out, it's pointed at his nutsack with the hammer on top, COCKED....that's all he notices while he realizes that he's got the barrel in his hand..... CANCEL #3!!!!!


At this point he realizes that a stopped run-through is in order :rolleyes: so they pull over and he goes through all of the motions, gets it all ironed out.

They mount back up, he's in front cuz he's got the gun to fiddle with......

He gets it OUT safely this time and figures he'd better fire it at a stump as he's riding by......... bumpty-bumpty-twisty bumpty........ he aims at some stumps and then decides OK, here goes.....he starts sliding his thumb around and the clip falls out on the ground......cancel #4

So they stop and regroup. THIS time they both decide to fire a few. After some perusal they find the safety, the slide lock and the mag release. They move over and fire... BLAMMMM!!!!!! :eek:..... MANaLIVE!!! who'da' figgered a little 9MM pistol was so steenking LOUD!!!!! So they carefully set the gun down and stuff toilet paper in their ears, go back to pick it up.....is the safety ON or OFF??? point BLAMMM!!!

Yup it was OFF!

After a half hour of fiddling they've burned up their box of shells and are FAIRLY comfortable with the gun so dude unloads it into a pocket and figures he'll dry fire a few own the trail.......


Pull it out, safety off, click.......

It's all fairly smooth.

But what about LEFT-handed?

WHAT the???



You can't FIRE this thing left handed!!!



THIS is when he comes to me. "I need some lessons! I'm worse off WITH this thing than without it!"


WEElllllll'p I sez........"I think you've just got the wrong GUN." "Do you REALLY want to have to TRAIN to shoot this thing??"


So I get him over to the house, we walk into the safe and I show him a bunch of different options ending with my choice of a Glock 36......rack it open. show him the works and set it aside. We load up a couple clips (Holy COW!!! Those are BIG ROUNDS!!!)


Yup :)

I hand him a fanny pack and tell him to strap it on, bag in front. I show him how THIS bag has snaps and velcro so that you can INSTANTLY just rip your way in from any position and either hand and GRAB the gun. From an empty rear compartment.........no fumbling, just rip and grab.

"Now put the mag in the Glock."

OK

"Now rack the slide."

OK

"Now drop it in the pack."



"NO WAY!!!!!

I don't know how to WORK this thing!!!! I don't even know where the safety is!!!!"..........."Please take it AWAY and SHOW ME!!"








"Drop it in the pack".........



He showed extreme reluctance, holding the loaded 45ACP pointed high and into the ceiling of the room.......so I asked him to CAREFULLY hand it to me, high and wide......





And I DROPPED IT, from 6ft Ka-WAKKKK, right on the concrete floor!!!!








"please, drop it in your pack."


He did.









We walked over (he kinda' WADDLED actually trying not to inadvertantly shoot his belly off...) to a set of shooting benches and put on our hearing and eye protection......



"Take out the pistol and lay it on the bench".......

"Now pick it up, acquire the target and and squeeze"......

Blamm-CLANGGG!!!!! (spinning target...)

Holy COW!!!! NOW WHAT???






"put it away"......



"HOW??????"


"just put it back in the pack".......


WADDLE!!! -WADDLE!!!



So now I took him off the hook. I carefully relieved him of the pistol and demonstrated how this was a true double-action pistol.....there WAS NO SAFETY! Nor no decocking lever nor no extraneous protrusions nor no learning curve..........just GRAB IT with either hand and point and squeeze. If'n it don't shoot rack it over again and point and squeeze.....that's IT! There's NOTHING to check......no hammer, no safety, no NUTTIN'!!!


Just point and squeeze.


And when you're done, put it away.


AWESOME!!!!




Sooo..... On the subject of "other" choices. I don't see anyone answering any of my previous questions, defending their choices......




Mr D sez, "I love my 9mm Sig Sauer 226! No downside that I have found."

Well I'll tell you a downside Mr D. To UNDERSTAND this you'll probably have to go shoot the gun competitively or otherwise simulate a fire-fight situation. Unless you're able to think critically about it.....

You don't like to carry cocked and locked so you carry loaded but uncocked, round in the chamber. Now I useta' try to race a Sig 220 and I gotta' tell ya' you DO NOT try to engage from the uncocked condition!!!! I got the Sig because it's written up in the GlossMags as the Real Deal....the Cat's Meaow....the solid Choice Of Professional Magazine Article Writers Everywhere (except for a FEW articles like this one >> http://remtek.com/arms/sig/model/229/229.htm << ) where they mention that "it might be ugly" or "have some buttons in the wrong spot"....but "overall a winner".....


-------------------------


Here's me with a holstered Sig in my "comfortable carry" mode (just like yours Mr D :) I HATE "cocked and locked")

And next to me is my Loverly Wife with her Kimber 45ACP......


GO!!


My gun is fully prep'd and race-ready as is my Beauteous and Deadly Lover's EXCEPT that I've got a 12lb trigger pull for my first round! I've got only about 4lb thereafter but she's STARTING with a dressed out 1911 with a trigger that's 3lb of breaking glass...........


I'm HOSED.....


OVER and OVER I'm HOSED.......there is just NO freakin' WAY you can train for 12lb-4lb-4lb-4lb-4lb-4lb..... so I start shooting cocked and locked. (which is CHEATING BTW...)

She still waxes me straight but hey....I'm at least running :rolleyes:


I need help. Professional help. I call upon the pro's...... "Oh, it's easy....you just fire the first round into the air to cock the piece"..


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Now THAT'S about the stupidest method I've ever heard of!!!!


I lose the Sig.


I start shopping out autos........double action ONLY!!!
revolvers....
dressed 1911's.....
a comped out CZ in 32cal Full Race Dress.....

I realize I'm getting further and further from my goal of a practical carry pistol, I have a mental image of it but NOBODY MAKES IT!!!


And then Glock comes out with the 36....ahhhhhhhhhhh......search OVER!


Now PLEASE, somebody CONVINCE ME of a better choice! I'll have reason to purchase another toy......I've got an "Incentive Check" burning a hole in my wallet......


LOL


al


BTW, in my HOUSE there be shotguns.........I ain't ABOUT pistols in the house ;)

Several rooms have nice decorative 12-bores over the doors........ A pre-64 model 12 here, a 97 there.......Ohhhh Yeahhhhhh, there's COMFORT in a shottygun :)
 
BTW Paul Fielder,

The difference between the concealability of the 36 VS the 1911 is dramatic. You can cover the Glock with your hand and it's THIN, thinner than a revolver, thinner than a 1911 and LIGHT.


Ohhh, and KEEP the 1911's!! :D They're still fun to shoot, and everybody needs a few....I haven't seen the brand new minis I'm seeing in the magazines but the Glock is 'wayy smaller than a Commander which I DO have.

al
 
(1) Sig 220 45 acp, Why because it fits me the best and is for me the most accurate out of the box pistol I've ever shot.(2)Colt Delta Elite 10mm a little more power and sentimentle reasons.+P loads in the 220 with the full size stainless frame is alot more controllable than in a sub/compact although the weight takes getting used to (carry wise):)
 
Love the posts as always Al.....

.....if they could only design a concealable 12ga, we would be in the chips:)

I actually like the commander better than the officers & did sell one of those micro Sprinfield 1911's not too long ago and it was a neat 'little' gun but I like a little more gitty-up than a 9mm.

I never saw a 'skinny' glock :) so may have to see what all your 36 fuss is about next time I get down to the gun shop.

Hey, no one said you needed buy another pistol w/ your check (still waiting for mine) There are lots of long guns waiting for you. If it were me, I would get a mint Colt DA wheel gun or pre-64 Winchester and put it in the safe. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure my check will go to cover the health Insurance and mortgage:-(

pf
 
Comfort

Many do not know this, from 1972 through 1978 I was a Relief Officer for The Jacinto City Police Dept. (a small city on the far East Side of Houston). Relief Officers were full commisioned officers who worked the week end shifts with a regular officer.
Back then, we carried Revolvers. The favorites were the S&W Model 19 in 357 with a 4 inch barrel, and the Colt Trooper. There were a few Model 27's and Pythons floating around, but those were quite pricey even back then.
When the "Dirty Harry" craze hit, EVERYBODY had to have a S&W model 29. That is, they wanted one untill the first time they went to the range with full house loads in that 4 inch barrel. Common sign on the Bulletin Board. "4 inch barrel 44 mag", must sell".
There were a few Colt 1911's and Commanders scattered around, but most were considered way too unreliable to stake your life on. And back then, on the East Side of Houston, there was a pretty good chance that on any given Friday or Saturday night, that is exactly what you would be doing.
That is why any time we went on a call, we carried Shotguns. Winchester Pumps. Loaded with #4 Buchshot.
In my house, and in my Motor Home, that is exactly what I have. Shotguns.
Both are Rossi rabbit ear double barrel Coach Guns. No safety to mess with, nothing to unlock. It's short, easy to handle. You cock it, and it is ready.
I am well aware that this is a deadly weapon, with a "Capitol D". But when it comes to my familly, that is what I want in my hands.
I do not have a Concealed Carry Permit. But my Wife does. She has a Barretta 9mm, a little Colt Auto in 380, and a 38 S&W Escort hammerless That is the one she will have on her 90 percent of the time........jackie
 
alinwa said:
BTW Paul Fielder,

The difference between the concealability of the 36 VS the 1911 is dramatic. You can cover the Glock with your hand and it's THIN, thinner than a revolver, thinner than a 1911 and LIGHT.


Ohhh, and KEEP the 1911's!! :D They're still fun to shoot, and everybody needs a few....I haven't seen the brand new minis I'm seeing in the magazines but the Glock is 'wayy smaller than a Commander which I DO have.

al
Click to expand...

I've always loved the 45 acp and have many 1911's. My only Glock is a model 21 that I bought before Glock came out with the model 36. The 21 is bulky and while accurate with factory and reloads it's not the best for CCW.
I do like it though and will have to consider the model 36. By the way, I also have a Colt Defender that I like a lot and use for carry and qualification up till now. Your opinion of this gun vis a vis the 1911 and 36?
 
Steeley Dan... if it aint steel is it still real ??

man,seems to me that shootin a punk with a glock would be akin to havin sex with a strap-on, both made of plastic or some direvitive. No doubt they get the job done but not as sexy as a 45acp 1911, ain't no glory in gettin shot with a glock how many adverseries in WWII last site on earth was at the muzzle flash of a glock, yeah I know... but they couldn't have passed mil-spec anyway.....:p Let me know if glocks are still as popular and claim the sucess rate 100yrs., down the road like the King 1911 45. Not a chance ;)
 
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Revolver or Auto?

I have to confess I've carried everything concealed from a S&W 1076 to a Sig P220, etc. I have Bianchi Pistol Pockets, Miami Vice rigs, side draw, cross draw, etc. and they're all a pain in the a** to carry for any length of time. I carry a S&W Model 60 Chief's Special, most of the time tucked in the front of my pants with my belt holding it in. A loose fitting shirt over the front and there's no print. I don't expect to ever get into a prolonged gun fight where I'll need all three 16 rd. magazines for my Sig P226 to fend off the Crips or Bloods; just a little persuasion for someone who may not be thinking clearly. I'm talking street carry not defending one's domicile. For the home, I keep several 12 gauge pumps with #4 buckshot.
Chino69
 
My trusted companion by day,guardian by night

my pistol with nitesites keep my room illuminated enough at night that I can see in the dark what I need to see in case of an intrusion by an unfriendly visitor an ofcourse "that's my boy, a trusty 1911 45 " I set the sites facing me and between the eye's of the sites watching me and the Heavenly Father I'm good to go......:)
I use to have a nice brand new 12ga. with 00 in the closet but it got stolen PMO...:mad:

now only if they could make a 1911 with "audio" like, "wake up dude, someone just kicked in the basement window". :eek:....:rolleyes:
 
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WELL...... we shooters seem to be enjoying ONE consensus any ways, big is better.....Shotguns and 45ACP's RULE :D


And remember, the 36 IS A FULL-ON 45ACP GUYS!!!! It just LOOKS and FEELS little!! It holds 6rds of 45ACP and due to the ergonomics of it I can shoot 185-230gr full-house defense loads no problem. I buy the MagTech stuff by the case and it doesn't hurt me. And I'm NOT a pistol shooter......My shooting wrist has been broken from a palm impact and my wrists are rawther limper than they once't was anyway because I gener'ly play more Boss than Cretin' these daze.

The gun just WORKS.

Now, does it hunt like my 220 did?? NOPE! The Beautiful One and Me'self used to have shoot offs on ground squirrels using my Sig 220 and her Kimber, both FINE accuracy pieces......it's really hard to put that away :( I can't hope to hit as many squirrels with the Glock.......but here's my story.


I'm an accuracy buff.

So I've until recently applied my rifle accuracy concepts to pistols......my "hunting pistols" started with a Taurus 44Mag, then a 629, then a Dan Wesson Pistol Pack Stainless VH hogleg, then I went shopping for "the Ultimate Hunting Handgun" and was actually making up a parts list for a tricked out S&W 500 when I reread "Hell I Was There" and realized that I was getting further and further from my goal of a carry gun. THIS monster weighs in at over 5LB and I was considering a scope! I've built 308's that weigh less.

So I dropped the whole thing. I changed gears ....... I put out the word and within about 6mo I found a 6" Anaconda. Now I've got to learn to shoot it :)

I finally came to "tool terms" with my hunting handgun. I've always been pretty tool-oriented re carry-guns BUT.... I've also been hung up on "accuracy".


Accuracy is relative.......


I had a friend (nephew) over here Sat that was in the market for a carry gun. He'd bought and sold three guns in less than a year and was thoroughly confusticated.... his latest acquisition had been a compensated and tricked out mini-1911 clone and he was quite happy with it until just a week ago he was up wheelin' and decided to shoot at a varmint from his jeep..... BIG MISTAKE!!! He found out that you just don't casually shoot a ported pistol without hearing protection. He realized that if he ever DID have reason to use this thing for protection he'd be DEAF from the first shot AND if it was a low-light situation he'd be retina-burned from the muzzle flash.......... In other words HE'D be incapacitated from his own weapon. He rethunk his parameters, sold the gun...... called me for ideas. When his tinnitus allowed.

He doesn't consider himself to be a good hand with a pistol.

He managed to put 3 of 5rds on the little spinner target at 18yds.

He's now shopping for a 36 :)

IT'S ACCURATE ENOUGH! In fact, I can shoot it as well as my Commander. Now, about the ultra-light 1911 stuff like the Defender I have no clue. I'll GUESS that they shoot like the light Glock. The 5 people that I've had shoot the little Glock have ALL hit rather well considering. A friend who shoots Schofields and tricked out Action Pistol and SASS stuff tried it (with distaste :D) and actually handed it back reluctantly..... ;) My experience with the ultra-light stuff started and stopped with that Scandium/Ti 44 mag that Smith sells.....the 329??? .... HOley HOppin' CATfish Bullwinkle that's a MAN'S gun! 'WAYYYY too much for me!


BTW, for those that find the 36 too small there are extended and formed mags I think. I've got very medium hands (I wear a size L glove) and find it just right. The big John Wayne handed pistolero types will find it annoyingly small, but for large guys concealing a full-size probably isn't a problem.


HOWEVER, I now find all the lumps and bumps and mechanical gizmo's on a 1911 to be annoying..... there's something about grab-and-squeeze that just gets under one's skin. I went to Gunsmithing School, Brownell's style, so of course I learned some about mod'ing 1911's....... my knowledge dates from the early 80's, olde-school. I've changed out and skeletonized parts, built custom grips, peened and fitted slides, barrels, etc. I could still probably melt one pretty good.... but I've just lost interest in tricking them except for looks. I've got two of them here that are untouched. They are fairly reliable if you understand them and they're 45ACP, other than that I'm not a fan except for sentimental reasons. I can't see myself carrying one around.

I think that THIS Glock will stay the course :)


opinionsby


al
 
rudedog,

I did go over and check out the youtube vids......I don't think they're meaningful. ANY very small and very light semi-auto must use at least some of your body weight to back them up for function. The only reason that an all steel pistol functions better when held in two fingers is because it's HEAVIER :) It uses its own mass (inertia) to counter the blowback moment and cycle the action.

Held anywhere close to normally I think you'll find yourself hard pressed to induce malfunction although like any semi you MAY have to try different ammo. I haven't had to. The 36 has digested 6 brands and some reloads from both my Sig buckets and Kimber stuff. ZERO failures.

I've induced failures in even semi auto rifles trying to rock-N-roll them, it's just a mass transfer thing. I can't see anyone being limp enough to stackpole a Glock in a situation.


And speaking of malfunction....... let's not get into dropping a 1911 into the muck :p Or making a long lasting reliable extractor....


BTW, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I've got no stock in Glock......in fact I despised them for years as yuppie wannabe guns. I STILL hate the "bricks" and all the "Hi-Cap" garbage. But I'm a pragmatist. It's all I know to be.

perty soon I'll be branded as "mean" and "spiteful" for owning an opinion.... I can feel it brewing.

I'm not quite PC enough for this forum :)

al
 
"And I DROPPED IT, from 6ft Ka-WAKKKK, right on the concrete floor!!!!"

seems unsafe to me, by the way - i think that you mean magazines, not clips.



alinwa said:
Nice points made.


Now I'd like to expand upon my reasoning a little.

A story :)

I have a friend who rides bikes all over the mountains......wayyyyy out in the boonies on his pedal bike, also cross-country town-to-town. He's ridden across the US.

So anyways, this guy decides he wants to carry a defense gun so he goes to a police officer buddy with his situation and the guy recommends a common S&W design. (Actually the guy sold him "his old carry piece" for a fair price...) Welll..... he ends up with this sweet looking little 9mm and he feels fairly secure until one day he's riding down into a ratty looking "camp" about 10mi behind nowhere and this big dude steps out from behind a tree and blocks the trail.

My friend tensed right up.

He actually had to THINK about where his gun was.......it was in his fanny pack on his right side which was his front braking hand which was locking his bike down. Long story short the situation wound down when my friend's riding buddy hove into view, weighing in at 258lb..........

So later they're riding along together talking about "the gun situation" and they decided to actually TRY this stuff ;) They're still miles from nowhere and it's totally legal to shoot to your heart's content out here...... so they tried it.

#1- reach for the fanny -pack, can't find the zipper......cancel ONE
#2- reach for the fanny pack, zipper folds up and jams.......cancel TWO
#3- reach for the pack, (repositioned to the FRONT) with it jammed against one leg....got it OPEN, now WHERE'S THE BLOODY PISTOL???....rooting around to find it (remember, dude's riding a mountain bike down a trail here, a MOUNTAIN trail...granola and grapenuts are dribbling out marking his trail.....his camera is hanging on a string.....) gets it out, it's pointed at his nutsack with the hammer on top, COCKED....that's all he notices while he realizes that he's got the barrel in his hand..... CANCEL #3!!!!!


At this point he realizes that a stopped run-through is in order :rolleyes: so they pull over and he goes through all of the motions, gets it all ironed out.

They mount back up, he's in front cuz he's got the gun to fiddle with......

He gets it OUT safely this time and figures he'd better fire it at a stump as he's riding by......... bumpty-bumpty-twisty bumpty........ he aims at some stumps and then decides OK, here goes.....he starts sliding his thumb around and the clip falls out on the ground......cancel #4

So they stop and regroup. THIS time they both decide to fire a few. After some perusal they find the safety, the slide lock and the mag release. They move over and fire... BLAMMMM!!!!!! :eek:..... MANaLIVE!!! who'da' figgered a little 9MM pistol was so steenking LOUD!!!!! So they carefully set the gun down and stuff toilet paper in their ears, go back to pick it up.....is the safety ON or OFF??? point BLAMMM!!!

Yup it was OFF!

After a half hour of fiddling they've burned up their box of shells and are FAIRLY comfortable with the gun so dude unloads it into a pocket and figures he'll dry fire a few own the trail.......


Pull it out, safety off, click.......

It's all fairly smooth.

But what about LEFT-handed?

WHAT the???



You can't FIRE this thing left handed!!!



THIS is when he comes to me. "I need some lessons! I'm worse off WITH this thing than without it!"


WEElllllll'p I sez........"I think you've just got the wrong GUN." "Do you REALLY want to have to TRAIN to shoot this thing??"


So I get him over to the house, we walk into the safe and I show him a bunch of different options ending with my choice of a Glock 36......rack it open. show him the works and set it aside. We load up a couple clips (Holy COW!!! Those are BIG ROUNDS!!!)


Yup :)

I hand him a fanny pack and tell him to strap it on, bag in front. I show him how THIS bag has snaps and velcro so that you can INSTANTLY just rip your way in from any position and either hand and GRAB the gun. From an empty rear compartment.........no fumbling, just rip and grab.

"Now put the mag in the Glock."

OK

"Now rack the slide."

OK

"Now drop it in the pack."



"NO WAY!!!!!

I don't know how to WORK this thing!!!! I don't even know where the safety is!!!!"..........."Please take it AWAY and SHOW ME!!"








"Drop it in the pack".........



He showed extreme reluctance, holding the loaded 45ACP pointed high and into the ceiling of the room.......so I asked him to CAREFULLY hand it to me, high and wide......





And I DROPPED IT, from 6ft Ka-WAKKKK, right on the concrete floor!!!!







"please, drop it in your pack."


He did.









We walked over (he kinda' WADDLED actually trying not to inadvertantly shoot his belly off...) to a set of shooting benches and put on our hearing and eye protection......



"Take out the pistol and lay it on the bench".......

"Now pick it up, acquire the target and and squeeze"......

Blamm-CLANGGG!!!!! (spinning target...)

Holy COW!!!! NOW WHAT???






"put it away"......



"HOW??????"


"just put it back in the pack".......


WADDLE!!! -WADDLE!!!



So now I took him off the hook. I carefully relieved him of the pistol and demonstrated how this was a true double-action pistol.....there WAS NO SAFETY! Nor no decocking lever nor no extraneous protrusions nor no learning curve..........just GRAB IT with either hand and point and squeeze. If'n it don't shoot rack it over again and point and squeeze.....that's IT! There's NOTHING to check......no hammer, no safety, no NUTTIN'!!!


Just point and squeeze.


And when you're done, put it away.


AWESOME!!!!




Sooo..... On the subject of "other" choices. I don't see anyone answering any of my previous questions, defending their choices......




Mr D sez, "I love my 9mm Sig Sauer 226! No downside that I have found."

Well I'll tell you a downside Mr D. To UNDERSTAND this you'll probably have to go shoot the gun competitively or otherwise simulate a fire-fight situation. Unless you're able to think critically about it.....

You don't like to carry cocked and locked so you carry loaded but uncocked, round in the chamber. Now I useta' try to race a Sig 220 and I gotta' tell ya' you DO NOT try to engage from the uncocked condition!!!! I got the Sig because it's written up in the GlossMags as the Real Deal....the Cat's Meaow....the solid Choice Of Professional Magazine Article Writers Everywhere (except for a FEW articles like this one >> http://remtek.com/arms/sig/model/229/229.htm << ) where they mention that "it might be ugly" or "have some buttons in the wrong spot"....but "overall a winner".....


-------------------------


Here's me with a holstered Sig in my "comfortable carry" mode (just like yours Mr D :) I HATE "cocked and locked")

And next to me is my Loverly Wife with her Kimber 45ACP......


GO!!


My gun is fully prep'd and race-ready as is my Beauteous and Deadly Lover's EXCEPT that I've got a 12lb trigger pull for my first round! I've got only about 4lb thereafter but she's STARTING with a dressed out 1911 with a trigger that's 3lb of breaking glass...........


I'm HOSED.....


OVER and OVER I'm HOSED.......there is just NO freakin' WAY you can train for 12lb-4lb-4lb-4lb-4lb-4lb..... so I start shooting cocked and locked. (which is CHEATING BTW...)

She still waxes me straight but hey....I'm at least running :rolleyes:


I need help. Professional help. I call upon the pro's...... "Oh, it's easy....you just fire the first round into the air to cock the piece"..


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Now THAT'S about the stupidest method I've ever heard of!!!!


I lose the Sig.


I start shopping out autos........double action ONLY!!!
revolvers....
dressed 1911's.....
a comped out CZ in 32cal Full Race Dress.....

I realize I'm getting further and further from my goal of a practical carry pistol, I have a mental image of it but NOBODY MAKES IT!!!


And then Glock comes out with the 36....ahhhhhhhhhhh......search OVER!


Now PLEASE, somebody CONVINCE ME of a better choice! I'll have reason to purchase another toy......I've got an "Incentive Check" burning a hole in my wallet......


LOL


al


BTW, in my HOUSE there be shotguns.........I ain't ABOUT pistols in the house ;)

Several rooms have nice decorative 12-bores over the doors........ A pre-64 model 12 here, a 97 there.......Ohhhh Yeahhhhhh, there's COMFORT in a shottygun :)
Click to expand...
 
IMHO, when choosing a defensive weapon, one should completely clear one's mind. Start with no preference, and look at everything.

The handgun should -fit- you. Not too big, not too small.

It should -point- correctly, and naturally. Not going to get into the point shooting debate, but if you point your "finger" and you're already more or less on target, things work a lot better.

It should be something you can handle. A 5'3" 120 pound guy with a .44 magnum may be good for one shot...

FWIW, I had my heart set on getting a 5 shot j-frame lightweight smith when we got ccw in Missouri. Well, tried out a couple.

At seven yards, I essentially neuter a "bad guy" target with "point" shooting. That means that the j-frame doesn't fit. However, with a 1911A1 with the curved backstrap, they go where I'm -thinking-. It's just spooky.
 
davejones,

It seemed unsafe to him too...... :D

was it?

Are you a trained shooter? A pistol-smith? Tell me how it's unsafe. ABUSIVE to a handgun, yes........ unsafe??? Hey, I'm human and active.....I USE this stuff. Sometimes I drop my tools. Tell me how dropping a Glock may cause it to fire and I'll reconsider them as solid tools. I drop my cell phone all the time. I've been carrying a phone 24/7 since the mid eighties.....in that time I've learned which ones are tools and which ones are delicate instruments unsuited for usage around construction sites. When someone asks my opinion re a cell phone brand, model or service I have an answer, based on performance. I can say that In My Experience brand XX has been a superior product because........

This is a subsidiary of Benchrest Central, the premier factual site on the net. Traditionally, on THIS forum opinions should be backed by facts. Just "thinking" or "feeling" a certain way isn't validation here. I've found gardening sites which are less PC than certain whiners want this forum to be.

Look at the post count to see that this reputation is fading fast :( we've been overtaken by a bunch of feelies who're more interested in playing nice than in dissemination of truth. By a bunch of wannabe's who want their opinions to be "as meaningful as anybody elses"....

I'm ASKIN' YA'....... do you have any FACTS to back this up? Explain yourself. Can you show me how the transfer mechanism can be enabled by a mere 6' drop??? Which parts may fail to produce involuntary ignition?? If I can't throw a Glock against a wall or drop it from a speeding truck....... it's down the road. Unless they've radically redesigned the guts of this thing from back when it was developed, I should be able to systematically attack the pistol with a pall peen hammer and not be able to induce an accidental discharge.

Tell me where I need to hit it to make it fire.......IMO if you're right, the gun's unsafe.


al
 
BTW davejones..... I know the difference between strippers, clips, magazines and moons. I use the term clip because it's common usage, I find it pretentious to correct others unless the imprecise terminology is somehow confusing.

While teaching the children in my Hunter Ed classes I'm careful to use the term "magazine" while explaining to them that they'll commonly hear the term "clip". I also explain that "magazine" is an inclusive term which commonly describes items as diverse as powder storage facilities and fixed tubes. In many industries "magazine" has more to do with protection from elemental forces than anything. It ain't only about guns.


"Removable magazines" are commonly called "clips" today. And it's easier to type.

"Mag" also sounds pretentious in mixed company.

opinionsby



al
 
Hey Al....

....if you ever sell that gun, you going to tell them about your drop tests:)

What kinda dinks did the concrete do to it?? I agree with you....maybe we should bring you up on charges of gun abuse:)

My black lab knocked over my 682 onto the gravel last whitewing season trying to get to her water in a hurry. Wanted to cry until I picked it up and & couldn't tell which were her dinks and which were mine.

pf
 
carry gun

Usually a 4" alloy frame Kimber in .45. Other times a steel frame 3" .45. In the 3", the weight of the steel frame allows me to be more precise. In the larger frames, the alloy's wt. doesn't seem to effect my ability. The small frame is just too much for this old guy without the weight. I've carried several different size and barrel length revolvers, but find them difficult to conceal. I usually carry IWB with a tuckable holster from Tucker Gun Leather in Houston.

I also keep coming back to the extra rounds available in that magazine. Dang, if I need 1, I'd rather have 6 or 7 spares than 5.

My boudoir gun is an old S&W .44 Military Triple Lock......sounds sexy, don't it. It's job is to get me safely to the 12 gauge.

Someone mentioned Elmer Keith.....Ol Elmer believed that big bullets let the air out of em faster. For sidearms, my bigger is better limit stops at .45.

Ammo? I've reloaded and cast for years. Shoot lots of cast bullets. Love them in the Lyman Alloy... just hard enough not to lead. Carry rounds are all store bought, usually Gold Dots.....and they are replaced annually.

Al, I just have to run over to the gun shop and try on a 36. I've shot a variety of Glocks, hate the look, but they work. Like that annoying rabbit on tv. Of course I was dead set against rifle stocks made from anything except good, figured wood, too. Well, after years I caved in, even before I got this thing called a glue-in, in a caliber Wal-Mart can't get ammunition for that shoots like a house-a-fire. (Now, those damn flags.... well that's a different story).

This is an answer to "What do you do?" And that's it.

p.s. Local gunshop teaches concealed carry classes. For qualification, the shop requires all students to use the shop furnished Glocks, and the shop furnished ammunition. This is primarily for simplifying instruction, and for consistency and safety. After several years, and lots of dufus students, the Glock record is exemplary. Lots of abuse and misuse by dufuses, but they keep on truckin.
I don't own a Glock,,,,,,,,yet.

Dennis
 
Glen Chism,

"Remember; If you have to use deadly force,make damn sure that the threat is completely dead."

RIGHT ON man!!

This is serious stuff. I know 6 people who've had to take lives here in civilian America. They've all had trouble dealing with the concept, some more than others. It's really no "worse" I guess than accidentally hurting or killing someone but it's SERIOUS nonetheless.......I chuckled at this quote by Jackie Schmidt > "I am well aware that this is a deadly weapon, with a "Capitol D". < well, YEAHHHH?? We're talking about DEAD here!! (but could you IMAGINE those gaping maws coming thru a dark doorway at'cha??? The Biblical phrase is, "and his bowels turned to water".........)

Paul Fielder,

Ya' know what?? I don't see it coming up :) If the gun's BROKE then it'll have to be fixed, other than that it's just wear. And this gun didn't get so much as a mark on it.. I kinda' held it flat and dropped it, I was palming it and I just opened my hand.......I didn't want to chip the tritium that I'd paid a hunnerd dollars exter for.

I learned long ago with bikes and boats and tools of all sorts that they're gonna' get USED!! I bought my Suburban brand new.....special order 3/4ton, mostrous 500CI motor, limited slip, tow package w/levelers, skid plates blah-blah-blahh....... It was a week old when we heard this weird noise and stepped out the door to see a little kid hurling 3"-5" boulders up on the hood! I mean there's DENTS clear thru the paint! The kid was like 1yr-old......he had his back to the truck and was leaning over in my driveway and two-handing these hunks of base-rock over his head and listening for the cool noise............. And NO, nobody paid to get it fixed. Not even the insurance company. The dents are still there. Two weeks later the truck was towing a 24ft trailer into a mountain camping spot and got end-to-end scratches in the paint....... My point is, I didn't buy it to set in my garage to take out and wash on a Saturday! I've NEVER washed it, although I've paid the kids to scrub it a couple times and we do bring it through a carwash several times a year......like Christmas and Easter Sunday (OOOPS! MORE Christian stuff!!) If it was one'a them jacked up F350's that cruise the strip every nite it probably WOULD get washed every other day, but the only time we're ever sharing turf is when I'm called to pull one of them out because they made the mistake of getting off the asphalt...


And as far as testing tools, my method is to test them in the privacy of a controlled environment before I'm staking my job on them, then to go out and USE THEM! My tools WILL get tested to destruction, in the end the winners are those which destruct slower. I get such a kick out of the speculators and wannabe's......... you can't miss 'em :)

"Well I heard"

and "but I read on the internet"....

"Well, I think that if my Mauser had a custom barrel and YOUR scope I could shoot just like your fancy-pantsy Kelbly-built Panda..."

It's like the difference between reading books by Clive Cussler versus Richard Marcinko "The Rogue Warrior"........ I don't care WHAT you think of Marcinko, you will recognize his sincerity and actual experience ..... IF you've been an operator of some sort.


I remember when we first started elk hunting, REALLY elk hunting as opposed to day trips within 2-3mi of the road. We were 7mi in with an elk on the ground and it was getting late.....BUT.....we all had "survival packs". We all had granola and candy bars and instant oatmeal for a week and MOST IMPORTANTLY we all had "Space Blankets", we were SET. Some of us had Rambo knives.....

The plan was to just bivouac up for the night......get a good rest and then a leisurely pack out in the bright-and-early morn. Sin'ging undt laffing like Jollie Voyageurs........


NOW, any of you who've actually DONE this know the rest of the story :D :D:D

Over the next ten years we learned enough to be staying out for as long as two weeks and ranging hundreds of miles......... and we learned why it's OK for Burly Steenky White Anglo Guys (BS WAGs) to kiss their lukewarm Mountain Dew reverently when they straggle back to the truck.....

degmon,

DO IT mon :) checki'dout, tell me Glock din't FINALLY make a real user, something that doesn't feel like a lego project.


al
 
I have a glock 17 in 9mm but that is no carry gun. Yesterday I bought a Sig p232 in 380. I guess I'm the odd man out here thinkin' that the li'l ole 90 grain hp would hurt anyone. This thing seems just the right size to me. Not too big, not too small. Just right. Goldilocks would be so happy.

I've fired and owned a few pistols in my life but never owned a carry pistol. After reading this thread, I googled the glock 36 and read about happy customers and angry customers and failures and recalls. Shrug...

I googled the p232 and found lot's of happy campers but I'm sure I can find the other kind if I keep looking. I never liked shooting my 357 and 45s turn me off. I decided manageable and well made would keep me happy. I'm happy with my purchase and shot 50 rounds in the back yard this evening and it shoots as well as it feels in my hand.

These discussions about extra mags and reloading time and gunfights seem a little odd to me when discussing a carry gun. If I'm going to a gunfight I guess I'd better be a great shot. That's more likely if I carry a pistol I don't mind firing a few thousand rounds through.

If I'm wrong, you can read about me in the papers. That seems unlikely. As risks go, I've taken more than I can count. Only carrying 7- 90 grain rounds on my person doesn't seem like a big walk on the edge.
 
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