Age old Question- Revolver or Pistol

When I was growing up we had the same deer lease for 17 years. The rule was simple. When you entered the property, all guns were loaded before you pulled away from the gate. They were unloaded just prior to exiting the gate. All rifles were kept in one location for convenience. No one was ever shot with an unloaded gun. The only time a gun was ever unloaded was the one time that it was agreed that Carl had had to much to drink. When he saw a deer later, on the stand, and his gun went click he was upset but he was clearly too drunk to safely handle a firearm.

All the by God statements here about the only safe way to handle guns in a hunting camp are rather telling of peoples self righteousness. Make a rule. Don't waver from it. Know who you hunt with. Be safe. Done.
 
BUSHMASTER1 said:
Of course they don't exist, there are no idiots left in america! The safety on a glock is overridden by pulling the trigger:eek:, but the external hammer of the 1911 scares people:confused:.
Click to expand...


There are just SOOO many things wrong here :confused:


In your prior post you didn't refer to them as "idiots", you used them to illustrate safe, normal behaviour..... or are the millions carrying cocked and locked also "idiots"?

And "over-riding the safety on the Glock by pulling the trigger" is unsafe relevant to carrying cocked and locked HOW???

And "scaring people" by wearing cocked is WHAT???



The SAFETY difference between a cocked and locked 1911 and a Glock is enormous FYI........... if you can't understand this then you need to find out that the Glock isn't even fully cocked when you pull the trigger. The Glock at rest is "more like" a transfer-barred double-action revolver with the hammer down......the 1911 isn't even in the same room as far a safety.

And yes, the cocked and locked 1911 IS just like the cocked deer rifle in deer camp in the sense that you've described, except that the 1911 is "acceptable" because it's being carried by a trained professional.


odd way to make your points :confused:


al
 
Just trying to illustrate how many guns are cocked and the safety on. You illustrate how safe the glock system is by dropping it on concrete with someone else in the room. I'll learn gun safety somewhere else. Flame on Al, I'm not gonna argue.
 
Gentlemen,

I mine as well join the fray...I've carried a gun literally every day for the past 18+ years whilst on the job, and off. And I've had occassion to see a few people who have been actually shot. So I have some opinions.

We all get caught up in the caliber debate...waxing poetic about the virtues of this caliber, and damning another, when, just as in hunting big game, bullet construction and shot placement are the most critical issues. The last three oxygen impaired via gun play individuals I've seen got that way courtesy of the lowly 22 rimfire, the anemic .25 ACP, and the much maligned 9mm. The common denominator in all three of these incidents besides "woefully underpowered" rounds, was excellent shot placement. The above trio ceased to exist most ricky tick despite the underpowered status of the calibers used. So...WHATEVER you choose to tote, pick a good bullet and be good with with the gun...real good.

Revolver vs Auto? They both have advantages and disadvantages, so pick the one you are comfortable with and can shoot. I can tell you, I've NEVER had a revolver not go bang, or malfunction. All my auto's, with the exception of a Beretta 92FS 9MM, have had malfunctions. I could not make that gun jam...despite intentionally neglecting cleaning, lube, etc. I eventually got bored trying to make it malfunction and cleaned it. Phenomenal gun...and I sold it...because I'm an idiot. The DA/SA guns (Beretta 92, Sig 226, etc), or whateverthehell Al called them, while probably not ideal, can be shot quickly and accurately...but you have to train to do it. I carry both autos and revolvers...a Glock 21 .45 ACP on duty, a H&K P7M8 9MM in my current plainclothes assignment, and a S&W 340SC .357 Mangleum off duty. I carry the Glock because I'm not worried about concealing it, it makes a big hole, and I can shoot it. The H&K because it's flat, easy to conceal, a great gun, and I can shoot it. And the Smith because it's REAL light, easy to conceal, and I can shoot it. However, I don't carry .357's in it...38+P's for me, thank you. I shot one cylinder full (5) of .357's in it and it was one of the singular most unpleasant gun experiences in my life. Mind you, I have a Freedom Arms 454 that I love to shoot, so I'm not exactly recoil shy, but that little gun was brutal. It is manageable with .38's, though.

Pick something your going to carry. That sounds absurdly obvious, but carrying a gun can be a pain in the arse. If you choose a hog-leg-boat-anchor, eventually you will tire of it and start leaving it at home. And that defies the first rule of gunfighting, which is to have a gun.

This safety, that safety, thumb safety, grip safety, free safety, add nauseam. The ultimate safety? The shooter...specifically the index finger on his/her shooting hand. If a certain type of safety makes you feel warm and fuzzy, rock on! I don't personally worry about my gun "just going off" while in my holster, nightstand, dropped from a plane, thrown around the garage, etc. I do know they go off when I press the trigger.

For you shotguns types out there, they are extremely effective, I agree. And NOTHING puckers butts and instills fear like the racking of a pumpgun. But, they are somewhat non-directional, i.e., they can throw a big pattern, and that's quite a few .32 or so caliber pellets travelling down range...and you OWN every last one of them. So be aware of it, your surroundings, and your backstop. Fortunately, I've seen advances in the "combat" shotgun of late, with advancements in chokes, tighter patterns, better rounds, etc., that minimize this problem to an extent.

Do NOT carry handloads in a carry gun! If you flip somebody's switch with a handload, and WHEN, not if, the civil attorney finds out about it, their going to be on you like white on rice, and make you look REAL bad!

Somebody mentioned "running away" as your first defense...and it was good advice. If you can, and you or nobody else will get hurt as result, unass the area, call the cops and be a good witness. We get paid to deal with deadly force situations, trained to deal with it, there's usually quite a few of us that show up, and have the resources ($$$) to deal with the ramifications of a deadly force incident. I'm not saying were all perfect, are better shots than you, are all that and a bag of chips, etc., but that is what we do. However, there are times you gotta fight, so be proficient with whatever gun you choose, fight smart and fight hard.

Now if you'll excuse me, I want to go look at a Glock 36. Al has piqued my curiosity in regards to the 36 and it's possibilities for plainclothes use. While I love my P7, if your gonna make a hole, make a big hole!

Justin
 
Justin,

Great post!

One thought, wheel guns may be better for the person who shoots very little and not much into shooting sports. The obvious design of a double action revolver avoids accidental firing and jams due to lack of experience. A simple operation creates confidence in the person who does not shoot regularly. My wife can shoot my automatics just fine, but prefers a S&W Chief Special under her pillow!
 
Great, informative post Justin.

I can't agree with you about "shot placement" though when talking about carryguns for us mortals. Hunting yes, defense no. I've never been there for real and never expect to be but based on my stress-skills with a handgun the only one I'd be comfortable with is The .410 Judge, which doesn't lend itself to concealed carry ;). IME "placement" in a rush situation is chancy, in fact when circumstances are slow enough for placement maybe it's not an out-of-control situation. Or at least it'll be hard to replay it as out of control..... The last guy that I heard of was a local case. He came home to find a guy ravaging his wife and daughter. He got his handgun out and ordered the guy down. The badguy was a total freak, he kept taunting the home owner, twitching up and down and worked his way over to his pants. The guy stuck his hand on or in the pants pocket and started to get up, the homeowner shot him right between the eyes........ and went to jail. He got out in a month or so but the REASON that he went down is because he couldn't convince the jury that he hadn't just executed the perpetrator. He'd have been better off to just shoot the guy to doll rags. I don't know what he was shooting.


I suck with a handgun, I need every advantage.

I love me a .45.....Big holes and slow bullets......DUMP that load.




About that little .357 :D We shot some really hot hog-killer reloads thru my wife's .357 Ladysmith.......loads I'd worked up for my 686.


OOUCHH!!!!!!! They actually made our palms red and bruised, Hogue grips gloves and all.


BTW I hope you get a chance to actually shoot a 36. I'm comfortable with full-house 185 and 240 self defense loads. Factory of course, although I stuffed a few hundred of our racegun loads thru it without a hitch.


Again, Great Post..... good to hear from an operator. :)


al
 
I knew a gun shop owner that took two 25 autos bullets in the chest and still downed the guy with a 380 auto. He then went out and sat on the curb and waited for the ambulance. In my limited opinion, anything less than a 380 auto may kill a bad guy eventually, but not stop him before he kills you! Stopping power is an issue.
 
I think Justin summed it up very accurately. Made me think. Thanks for taking the time to post that Justin.

CW
 
Gentlemen,

Thank you for your kind comments. If something I said keeps you or a loved one safe, and out of harms way, either physically or legally, it is well worth the time and effort to type up a post.

Mr. D makes a good point about the revolver, which is ease of manipulation. I don't know how many times I've been in a gun shop and seen a person ask to see a semi-auto that was on display, and then stare blankly at it for period of time, before starting to push buttons, flip levers, etc., trying to figure out how the thing works. Revolvers are pretty simple...point, shoot. You can make a person dangerous with a revolver in about a minute, and revolver are all pretty much the same. Semi-autos? Some have buttons, some have levers, some have decockers, some have blah, blah, blah. If your going to carry an auto, make sure your intimately familiar with it.

Al. I hope I didn't give the impression that by my emphasis on shot placement, I want you dragging out the Farley rest, thinking about your breathing, and trying to shoot out the lower left quadrant of bad guy's pupil. I'm not. But you CAN shoot fast and accurately, and place your shots. But you got to train to do it! And if we're taking on the responsibility of carrying a gun, to save our own precious carcass, we should probably be pretty good with it. Think about all the pains people like you and I go through when chambering a barrel....dialing in the bore to the last .0001....making it as good as we possibly can. Fussing over the crown...live pilot reamers. If we go to all the trouble to make a gun that can shoot little bitty groups on a piece of paper, why wouldn't one go to the same lengths to make sure he is proficient with a gun that he may stake his life on? You gotta train it! You would be surprised how fast and accurate one can shoot a handgun if you work at it...and I've always thought that it was kinda fun work! Shooting fast, inaccurately, in my mind, accomplishes nothing but waste time. A flesh wound, is a flesh wound, whether it be with a .22 or a .45. You cannot shoot fast enough to make up for a miss.

Some thoughts on training and shooting a handgun. Some are cliche, none are mine originally, but they all hold true.

Aim small, miss small. (Mel Gibson in "The Patriot")

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. (Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch)

You fight like you train. (?)

In a critical incident, you don't rise to the occassion, you sink to the level of your training. (?)

I'm sorry to hear of the hassle your friend went through, Al. Like the incident wasn't traumatic enough, he then has to deal with a bunch of clueless jurors who weren't there, and have watched to much TV. (No...we don't routinely shoot guns out of peoples hands). We are trained to shoot center chest first...if that option is available, and if that doesn't "stop" bad guy, then we go to the head. The chest is a bigger target, and less mobile than the head. But I believe perception has alot to do with it, too. They don't want the perception, as your friend now knows, that cops are executing people with first shot head shots...because they usually are fatal. It's not right thinking, but it is what it is....

Justin
 
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