3min sight in ruling

[Butch Lambert]

I agree with Ray. I have shot in the wrong spot and have paid the piper. Every match that I have been to they put a sight in target between the target boards for the guys that aren't prepared for the matches. I really don't see any excuses that could be acceptable. I have helped and had people help me get on target.
Why have rules?
Butch

 

[Dan H]

Butch and Ray you are absolutely right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan Honert

 

[jlcprec]

I think the 3 minute sight in is more fair than a 10 minute first match, if the reason for it is to get on paper. I feel the hosts of the match don't like the 3 minute is that it is potentially more work for them. It also takes a lot longer than a 10 minute first match.

If you're not on paper and your competitor is, and the condition is perfect to start, you may miss the only chance to shoot a small one, while everyone else hammers away on the record. The other point was alluded to earlier. If you can't find your bullet, with the 3 minute time, you can get more help, which I have seen happen at Holton.

I also agree that DQ ing anyone over a shot on the record during this time would be way overkill in something that is all about having fun, since it doesn't really pay very well. (Or it never has for me, anyway)

Jim Carstensen

 

[jackie schmidt]

Jim

Not only is it overkill, it is not legal for a shooter to be DQ'd if he fires on his record target during a 3 minute sight in.

One thing we are missing is the clubs resposibility in policing the 3 minute sight in. If a club chooses this option, with the first match target hung, then it is the Range Officers resposibility to scan the targets to insure that no one has fired on the record.

If the Range Officer is not equiped to do this, then the club should opt for a ten minute first match in lue of the 3 minute sight in.

I think some of our fellow shooters are being a little anal about this. The "that's too bad, you are DQ'd" attitude is not condusive to encouraging shooters to participate.

The Rule Book has plenty of rules that require a shooter be DQ'd if a certain violation occurs. Clubs do not need to be adding others, especially when they are in violation of the NBRSA Rules to begin with..........jackie

 

[Steve Lee]

JMHO, but why is a sight-in period even necessary? A shooter should have his rifle tuned and sighted in before attempting to shoot a match. If he shows up for a tournament and can't hit a 6x8 piece of paper at 100 yards he is S.O.L.

Ray

Barrel changes is why. I'm pretty good at bore sighting a barrel at 100 yards, but still can be off by up to six inches. At 200 yards a barrel change can easily be off the paper even after bore sighting.

Six inches high at 100 yards would easily put you in the DQ zone.

 

[CYanchycki]

Thanks

for all the input and thoughts on this.

We were unsure what the actual ruling should be but I now know how to deal with it in the future.

3 min sightin, after cease fire RO asks if all is okay or need more time. If all okay proceed with match.

If shot into the record target change the target then proceed with match.


Calvin

 

[JerrySharrett]

Barrel changes is why. I'm pretty good at bore sighting a barrel at 100 yards, but still can be off by up to six inches. At 200 yards a barrel change can easily be off the paper even after bore sighting.

Six inches high at 100 yards would easily put you in the DQ zone.

Steve, a necessary scope change is just as bad. I think scopes get changed more often than barrels, not that many scoped go bad but changing scopes helps to clam the shooter.

Being ready to go on Friday? Many of the shooters we shoot with have real jobs and work on Fridays so us retirees can get SS money to buy primers with. That is about all a SS check will buy.

 

[Cheechako]

Well I was never one to back down from a good shooting discussion, so . . .

Steve, it's called "keeping notes". I have 6 Benchrest actions and maybe 15 barrels. When I change a barrel I simply look at my notes. For barrel X in action Y, I know that I have to adjust my scope 4 MOA up and 1 MOA right. That puts me within a couple of inches of POA at 100 yards.

You only have to do the figuring once. But Saturday morning of a tournament is not the time.

Jerry, I too am on SS. I certainly do not want to do anything to keep the workers from making their FICA contributions on time.

But, if there is one thing that really pisses me off it's when a guy will say, "Well, some of us have to work for a living." Well he won't be getting any sympathy from me. Does he think that I get my SS check because I spent my days watching sports on TV? I worked 50 years to pay my dues and somehow managed to be prepared for a Benchrest tournament before Saturday morning.

If that same guy is smart enough to own a couple of $3000 rifles, $1000 worth of loading gear, and a $50,000 pickup truck to haul it around in he should be able to figure a way to get one of those rifles working reliably and sighted in by 8 AM Saturday morning.

What gets to me more than anything else is the general tendacy toward whining. Over the years I've had my share of bad scopes, busted bolt handles, stuck bullets, etc, etc. S**t happens and sometimes you finish last. But, don't whine about it. Just fix what's broke and say, "Wait until next time!"

JMHO

Ray

 

[Butch Lambert]

AMEN BROTHER!!
Butch

 

[crb]

On a lighter note At one of our score matches I fired my whole record target during the 3 min sight in period Instead of putting up a new target I took that target as my record target. This allowed me to RO for that match and Bill D got to shoot with everybody else

It was pretty comical !

NOTE: This was a non-sanctioned club match.

 

[Pete Wass]

Actually,

Well I was never one to back down from a good shooting discussion, so . . .

Steve, it's called "keeping notes". I have 6 Benchrest actions and maybe 15 barrels. When I change a barrel I simply look at my notes. For barrel X in action Y, I know that I have to adjust my scope 4 MOA up and 1 MOA right. That puts me within a couple of inches of POA at 100 yards.

You only have to do the figuring once. But Saturday morning of a tournament is not the time.

Jerry, I too am on SS. I certainly do not want to do anything to keep the workers from making their FICA contributions on time.

But, if there is one thing that really pisses me off it's when a guy will say, "Well, some of us have to work for a living." Well he won't be getting any sympathy from me. Does he think that I get my SS check because I spent my days watching sports on TV? I worked 50 years to pay my dues and somehow managed to be prepared for a Benchrest tournament before Saturday morning.

If that same guy is smart enough to own a couple of $3000 rifles, $1000 worth of loading gear, and a $50,000 pickup truck to haul it around in he should be able to figure a way to get one of those rifles working reliably and sighted in by 8 AM Saturday morning.

What gets to me more than anything else is the general tendacy toward whining. Over the years I've had my share of bad scopes, busted bolt handles, stuck bullets, etc, etc. S**t happens and sometimes you finish last. But, don't whine about it. Just fix what's broke and say, "Wait until next time!"

JMHO

Ray

The odd things that happen to all of us from time to time are quite rare ad in my part of the woods, I don't see a whole lot of whining. What I do see from time to time is the odd Mean Spirited individual who seems to want to make it as tough as he can on everyone. It isn't whining, per se but just wanting to peanilize the "other Guy" for no particular reason that I can see other than just trying to cause a ruckus. Perhaps it's part of their "winning Stratergy" but I find it most unappealing and unsportsman like. Some folks need to try to find a Life.

 

[Tony Gauthier]

we have the 3min sight in with a called cease fire like when a relay is ending. Then it is asked if all is well.

The match/relay would then officially be called and begun.

I am starting to think that there is a benefit to the first match/relay being 10 minutes long instead of the 3 min sighter period.

So what I am starting to see here is with a 3 min sighter before the match is called you shoot to verify the poi of your rifle and after 3 min a ceasefire is called. If all is well and nobody goes up stairs or admits to going upstairs the match starts. If someone admits to going upstairs his target is changed then the match begins. No penalty. I can understand that. Basically no benefit.

Scenario 2 the first match is 10 min instead. Now you have 10 full minutes to shoot your first match. Instead of 7. I would consider this a benefit to most shooters.

Something just does not jive here.

Regardless of my thinking I am starting to prefer the 10 minute first match instead of the 3 min sightin.

JMO

Calvin

There is another reason for a 3 minute sight in seperate from the 7 minute record. Our backer barely makes 10 minutes. If for any reason there was a cease fire we would have to redo the backer before continuing. We are wrking on a new system but no power makes iot more difficult!!!!

 

[Dan H]

Well said Pete.

Dan Honert

 

[jackie schmidt]

Pete

"just wanting to penalize the other guy for no particular reason".

That is why we have a rule book, and that is why we are adhere to it at all times.

When a club enters into a contract with a Sanctioning Body to hold a Registered Match, then that club must obey the rules as set forth by that Sanctioning Body. These rules are not open for interpretation.

A example is a discussion that we had a couple of years ago. It seems a shooter, in order to make weight, removed the trigger guard on his Rifle. The Match Director suggested that he not be allowed shoot, because of a safety issue.

Upon further review, everybody came to the conclusion that this in no way could be a safety issue due to the stringent rules concerning when a Rifle could even be capable of firing, ie, the "bolts out rule". How could it be a "safety"issue when the only time the Rifle could be capable of discharging a round was when it was sitting in the bags, pointed down range, under the order of "commence fire".

Sure, it could have been a problem to the shooter, accidentally hitting the trigger. But that just means his agg would suffer, nothing else.

This is an example of a Match Director exceeding his authority. No where in the NBRSA Rules does it state that a Rifle must have a trigger guard......jackie

 

[Gerry]

3 min sight in period.

This has hapened many time before. The match hasen't started.
We usually just change the target. To many rules can mess up a game just as to few rules.

 

[Pete Wass]

You'r right jackie

"just wanting to penalize the other guy for no particular reason".

That is why we have a rule book, and that is why we are adhere to it at all times.

When a club enters into a contract with a Sanctioning Body to hold a Registered Match, then that club must obey the rules as set forth by that Sanctioning Body. These rules are not open for interpretation.

A example is a discussion that we had a couple of years ago. It seems a shooter, in order to make weight, removed the trigger guard on his Rifle. The Match Director suggested that he not be allowed shoot, because of a safety issue.

Upon further review, everybody came to the conclusion that this in no way could be a safety issue due to the stringent rules concerning when a Rifle could even be capable of firing, ie, the "bolts out rule". How could it be a "safety"issue when the only time the Rifle could be capable of discharging a round was when it was sitting in the bags, pointed down range, under the order of "commence fire".

Sure, it could have been a problem to the shooter, accidentally hitting the trigger. But that just means his agg would suffer, nothing else.

This is an example of a Match Director exceeding his authority. No where in the NBRSA Rules does it state that a Rifle must have a trigger guard......jackie

I don't know about NBRSA but in my opinion in IBS the Match Dierctor is strictly in charge of aranging for the match and making sure it happens. They do not have any authority to make rules or to be directing the Referees. It is my understanding that the Referees and Range officer are the only people with authority during a tournament which would include any decisions on rifle soundness. I have seen incidences of Match Directors exceecing their authority and it needs to stop.


Everyone should study the rules so that when thay agree to be a Referee they have some idea of what they are doing and what is permissibel. If we don't become more pro-active with regard to everyone knowing the rules we will continue to wallow in situations like you discribe.

I haven't studied NBRSA rules but I suspect there may be some areas that are a bit gray, which must have given rise to this thread. Any time there is a gray area found, the gray should be made black and white as soon as possible. I think some folks like gray because it provides "discression" which is where "Common Sense" come poking it's nose in. My Common sense is not likely to be exactly the same as your common sense and ours won't be like this Match Director you spoke of. The concept of "Common Sense" is no basis for any orginigation to run by, not even a little bit, not ever. What is written is the only way it is and if that isn't correct, make it so.

 

[Al Nyhus]

In our neck of the woods, we run a seperate warm-up match before each yardage.....NBRSA or IBS.

Simplifes a lot of things. -Al

 

[Dan H]

In our neck of the woods, we run a seperate warm-up match before each yardage.....NBRSA or IBS.

Simplifes a lot of things. -Al

In my neck of the woods and hollers, IBS has a 10 minute warm-up and 5; 10 minute record matches for score shoots. NBRSA has a 3 minute sight-in period and 5; 7 minute matches for group shoots. At the end of the 3 minute sight-in the RO asks if anyone need more time and then proceeds accordingly, I think, my wife says I'm always wrong. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Dan Honert

 

[CYanchycki]

Pete

that was the reason I posed this question. We are aware of the 3min sight in or 10 min first match. It does not specify what is to be done if on the 3 min sight in a person goes upstairs onto the record target.

Maybe it is just a simple straight forward answer to the question but we hashed it out for over 15 min trying to do the right thing. When the smoke cleared we changed the targets and decided we will know for sure for the next match.

Thus the posed question. Maybe it needs to be put into print in the rule book????

Calvin

 

[jackie schmidt]

Calvin

I will speak to our Region Director about the matter...........jackie