3min sight in ruling

CYanchycki

CYanchycki

Club Coordinator
Okay gang here is the situation. At our match this past weekend we ran into a situation that we really could not find a ruling for or were not very clear with the rule book.

Here it is.

After a aggregate there is a usual bench rotation. Before the actual match begins we had a 3 minute sightin period. We had a few scenarios.

#1) Shooter fires rounds into the sighter target and goes upstairs to the record target firing 1 round. What is the ruling?

It is a 3min sight in period. Is the shot into the record target after the sighters were fired ignored and forgiven? The catch is the shooter did not admit after firing into the record target. He thought it was the actual 7 min match so that is why he went upstairs. According to the rules if it is a first shot and it goes upstairs and he calls the match director and informs him it is forgiven. In this case sighters were fired into the sighter then he went upstairs.

What is the ruling?

#2 Same scenario but the shooter fires 2 rounds on record before he realizes his error. Ruling? Is the first shot forgiven and the next counted? Or is there penalty added?

Calvin
 
First shot

As I understand the rules, the first shot mulligan only applies to the FIRST SHOT, not the first shot on the record.

If I were the ruling body, in this case, I would suggest the two targets be changed. It seems to me, though, that if it was explained by the range officer not to go up to the record in the first 3 minutes, that it would be grounds for a DQ, if you wanted to be hard about it.

Jim Carstensen
 
Ruling

The three minute sight in period IS NOT the official beginning of the aggregate. It is that, a "sight in period".

Clubs usually hang the first record target for convienience, and give the command and request that shooters do not shoot on the record. But, this request has no validity in the NBRSA rule book, because it is not there. If a shooter accidentally shoots his group on the record during the sight in, the procedure is for the target crew to hang a new target.

I have seen this several times. After the sight in, the range officer will ask if anybody has shot on his record. If the answer is yes, they will simply go down range and hang a new target. Everybody gives the shooter a little "ribbing", but no harm, no foul.

Remember, the key here is that the sight in period is not part of the official aggregate, the rule book simply says that this is an option for clubs in lue of a 10 minute first match, (not at National Event).

This a a non issue at IBS Events, because the rule book states that all first matches of an aggregate will be 15 minute for 10 shot, and 10 minutes for 5 shot matches..........jackie


..............jackie
 
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I have often wondered

why folks are so quick to say DQ'd for infractions or preceived infractions that are not of a serious safety issue, I don't understand where that mentality comes from. People put in a big effort to attend a match and I feel that everyone should be given as much slack as the rules permit and that DQ ing anyone should be an absolute last resort. Obviously if someone does something that is a Safety issue or is caught trying to cheat in some way , they should be DQ'd but beynd that; doesn't make sense to me.
 
Thanks

fellas for the replies.

We were sure there was nothing in the rule book covering the 3 min sight in so we were not out to lunch.

Thanks

Calvin
 
Francis

Go to the NBRSA Logo, and then to rule book. Scroll to page 25 item 11. It explains the clubs option to use a 3 minute sight in period in lue of a 10 minute first match.

I disagree with some who leave the impression that rules are open for interpretation. The rules in the book are very specific, and are to be followed to the letter.

If a club is holding a Registered Match, it should not alter the rules of the Sanctioning Body to suite the moment.

Sure, there might be a few instances. We discussed a while back about a clubs not allowing any shooters sitting or standing at benches while the target crew was down range. This was a safety item, I suppose to supplement the bolts out rule. That is different from rules that regulate the course of fire.........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
The three minute sight in period IS NOT the official beginning of the aggregate. It is that, a "sight in period".


I have seen this several times. After the sight in, the range officer will ask if anybody has shot on his record. If the answer is yes, they will simply go down range and hang a new target. Everybody gives the shooter a little "ribbing", but no harm, no foul.

Remember, the key here is that the sight in period is not part of the official aggregate, the rule book simply says that this is an option for clubs in lue of a 10 minute first match, (not at National Event).

This a a non issue at IBS Events, because the rule book states that all first matches of an aggregate will be 15 minute for 10 shot, and 10 minutes for 5 shot matches..........jackie


..............jackie
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Isn't how the 10 minute rule done up to the Region or club just like 5 shot and 10 shot Unlimited ? In the NBRSA I've seen where there was just a 10 minute match with no stopping then some places there was a 3 minute sight in, then cease fire, then the range officer asks if the shooters need any more time AND if there is any holes on the record target.
 
At our matches

we have the 3min sight in with a called cease fire like when a relay is ending. Then it is asked if all is well.

The match/relay would then officially be called and begun.

I am starting to think that there is a benefit to the first match/relay being 10 minutes long instead of the 3 min sighter period.

So what I am starting to see here is with a 3 min sighter before the match is called you shoot to verify the poi of your rifle and after 3 min a ceasefire is called. If all is well and nobody goes up stairs or admits to going upstairs the match starts. If someone admits to going upstairs his target is changed then the match begins. No penalty. I can understand that. Basically no benefit.

Scenario 2 the first match is 10 min instead. Now you have 10 full minutes to shoot your first match. Instead of 7. I would consider this a benefit to most shooters.

Something just does not jive here.

Regardless of my thinking I am starting to prefer the 10 minute first match instead of the 3 min sightin.

JMO

Calvin
 
CYanchycki said:
Regardless of my thinking I am starting to prefer the 10 minute first match instead of the 3 min sightin.

JMO

Calvin
Click to expand...
The trouble with the 10 minute sight in is if a shooter is not on the paper and their 2nd or later shot lands on the record, in a bad spot, they are screwed. On the 3-7 minute first match, there are two things that help if the shooter is not on paper, 1) not on paper at all, more time may be given, 2) for some reason the situation above a shot, in the process of adjusting sights, a shot goes high, even just above the DQ line between the sighter and record, the shooter gets a new target.

There is a DQ area that starts just above the sighter box and surrounds the record target box.

By the rules the club is supposed to have "on-the-paper" boards. These are especially useful where a shooter had to swap barrels. Some gunsmiths chamberings can have the POI off 2-3 feet at 100 on a barrel swap. I don't think this chambering method is best but many use it (range rod and 2 dial indicators)-(see Aug 2009 issue PS magazine p55)
 
My smith just recently chambered a 30br barrel for my Teddy when shot it printed about 2'' from where my ppc barrel printed. Sorry about going somewhere else. I just had to say that, Jerry made me do it.:D

Dan Honert
 
JMHO, but why is a sight-in period even necessary?:confused: A shooter should have his rifle tuned and sighted in before attempting to shoot a match. If he shows up for a tournament and can't hit a 6x8 piece of paper at 100 yards he is S.O.L.

Ray
 
He is S O L

And he may not be back for the next match............
 
Jim Mullican said:
And he may not be back for the next match............
Click to expand...

A shooter (or any other competitor) has two choices.

1) Man, I'm not going to let that happen again. I'll be back next month to kick some butt.

2) Man, I don't like this game. I'm not coming back.

Which do you prefer?

S.O.L. is one of the greatest learning tools there is. Friday is the day for correcting mistakes. If he didn't learn by Saturday morning he should take up another hobby. My tolerance for shooters who are not prepared is somewhere between zero and none.

Ray
 
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the problem is that you have two different sets of rules and those that shoot both IBS and NBRSA can makes mistakes when shooting at the others event. Simple solution is have either a 10 minute record match or a 10 minute warm up match. It is tough to be ready to go if you have a problem and change a scope or barrel.
In either case they were correctable errors and the shooters should not be DQ'D
Mike
 
The 10-minute warm up match in the rules is a carry over from the first days of Benchrest. It was never intended to be a time for shooters to sight in their rifles and/or stuff like that. Shooters were expected to show up, ready to shoot.

The warm up was a way for shooters who had never shot at a particular range to get a little acquainted with the range layout, the benches, the predominant winds, and other stuff like that. A way to take a little of the edge away from the old-timers who shot there every week or month. Of course, a shooter could take advantage of the warm-up by sighting in his rifle at the same time but that was not it's primary intent.

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse for anything although there are always guys who will try such things.

When is the last time you heard a world-class shooter complain that he didn't know the rules, he wasn't sighted in, he wasn't ready, etc. Those kind of things happen to the best, just like they happen to you and me, but you'll never hear about it.

Ray
 
This makes a very good point

there are darn few folks who know the rules in depth, myself included. We tend to think things are one way because they have always been done that way but often, the rule sez something totally different or there ain't no rule fer it! It would be in everyone's best interest to become intimately familiar with the rules of the sport we participate in. With regard to IBS rules, Dick keeps the book up to date and it is available as a download from the website; well worth downloading.
 
Jim Mullican said:
And he may not be back for the next match............
Click to expand...

I agree with Jim, at time people may change barrels or scopes. I'm sure there are many more reasons why a person needs 3 extra minutes and that is why the RO asks at the end of three minutes if anyone needs more time. If you don't need that extra three minutes, that would be a good time to observe the flags and try to figure out the conditions at that range, should be a great advantage to a shooter who is so prepared. EH cheechako. This is just a game, boys and girls like to have fun.:D We are trying to promote this sport not scare shooters away!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Dan Honert:)
 
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Dan

You're right. What was I thinking? It's about having fun and not chasing away new shooters.

So, I propose that we do away with measuring group sizes. The scorer's only job should be pasting a smiley face on each target. For those pesky 4 and 1 targets, paste the smiley face over that one flyer.

I'm not kidding.:rolleyes:

Ray
 
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