30br/30ppc, tuners, at the Super Shoot.......

D

Don

Guest
...............any finish aggs. in the top 50?

With all the pre-SS talk about superior tune maintainability and longer barrel life, it will be interesting to hear if this translated in to real world competitiveness.

Also, how did the tuner equipped rifles fair?.............Don
 
Don...

...as I'm certain you saw from Wilbur's Super Shoot equipment list, there were no .30's in the Top 20. I doubt that a more comprehensive list ever comes out...it is just too much work...so the only way you're going to find out about Top 50 is if someone passes along a personal story. As for tuners...same deal...personal story. At this time, there is no listing on Kelbly's registration form (or any other registration form that I know of) that asks whether or not you are using a tuner.
 
Hal Drake shot a .30 in HV, I believe. Won a match with a .100. There may have been a couple of others, but don't know. Tuners were very scare, but Bill Goad MAY have used one...

jks
 
I'm only aware of three 30 cal rifles even making it to the line at this years SS. I think there were four last year. Odds are stacked pretty well against them, so I don't think any conclusions can be drawn. None finished all that great this year, although I finished in the top 20 in the HV grand last year with one of mine. As for tuners, I saw quite a few more of them this year than last. I didn't keep tabs on who had one on their rifle or not though...Jeff hit submit just before I did. Anyway, I had forgotten about Bill. Talked to him at length about his tuner and he was very happy with it. He never moved it all week though...
 
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I loaded close to Mr. Brown and he shot a tuner and shot it very well. He showed me plots on the adjustments he made during matches. He's got a good grip on how to use one effectively and he keeps extensive notes. He had a top twenty LV 100yd and 100yd grand. He and Mr. Holland are a couple of nice guys, it was a pleasure talking to them.

Hovis
 
A good way to deal with this

Don said:
...............any finish aggs. in the top 50?

With all the pre-SS talk about superior tune maintainability and longer barrel life, it will be interesting to hear if this translated in to real world competitiveness.

Also, how did the tuner equipped rifles fair?.............Don
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would be to take the 12 top shooters from the Supershoot, furnish 3 with a great 6PPC without tuner, 3 with 6 PPC's with a tuner, 3 and 3 30 BR,s; make them all HV so that nobody would whine about recoil and have them shoot a series of matches in which all of them could shoot each configuration 3 times . Certainly if the IROC folks can make 12 Camaros be very close to each other competatively, we could do the same with 12 rifles.

We could even consider them to be different Brands if that would please anyone and just see how it would go. I have seen a couple of 30 BR's with new tuners installed lately that are Awsome. A huge cloverleaf to a tiny round hole in 1/4 turn of the tuner; impressive.
 
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Great Shooters

will do well with any Rifle that is capable of winning.

I simply do not see the day when the 6PPC will be subplanted by any other offerring, or at least any time soon.

Here are the facts. While a 30 BR, (or 30 PPC, 25 BR, or any other small capacity chambeing for which the best in components are available), have the accuracy, and agging capability to win, the big question still is "why do it". As has been noted many times, there is an entire industry that is built around the 6PPC. Everything from the finest in barrels, bullets, brass, and the other things that produce a winning combination are at the disposal of anybody willing to put forth the effort.

I did not mention the sub-23 calibers, because untill they change the caliber requirement in Sporter, they are dead on arrival.

It would be interesting to note how many 22 cal Rifles were at the Super Shoot. They are legal for both the 10.5 and 13.5 pound class. It has been noted that at Nationals, only a cpuplr of shooters switch to a 22 when they go from Sporter to LV. I suspect the same ratio would be in affect at the Super Shoot.

Since I have started playing with my 30 caliber, I, like many, have found that the things are extremely accurate, and, aside from the recoil in a 10.5 pound Rifle, is very user friendly. I plan on shooting mine at the 100 yard legs of our Region matches the rest of this year. That is the only way I will see for myself if it is worth the effort.

But, like I have said before. I am not looking for something just as good as the 6PPC, I am looking for something a little better. The current crop of 30 caliber barrels and bullets are as good as anything ever made. All you have to do is chuck a quality 30 caliber barrel up and see the extreme straightness, the eveness of the lands and grooves, and the overall quality to see what I mean. I do a lot of barrels, and it is hard to find a bad 30.

At this years Indy 500, evry car that finished was powered by a Honda Engine. But then, every car that was entered was [powered by a Honda. Not hard to figure that out..........jackie


I just went and looked at the top 20 equipment list for the two Grand Aggs, and Bill Forrester shot his 22 in the 13.5 pound class. Everything else was a 6PPC.

Also, notice that in todays world of the latest in whiz bang a cad-cam actions, Mr Boyer won the 13.5 pound class with that old Hart HV, which was built when many of you were still in grade school......jackie
 
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I hope I am still alive

when a chambering comes along that will best the 6 PPC. I will revel in it. I won't even write surly posts saying SEEEEE. :D
 
The top shooter with a .22 Short...

Hall of Fame shooter, Bill Forrester shot his .22 very well. He finished tied for
5th place in the 2-gun. Bill is one of those shooters who can win with any capable rifle. Good shooting...James
 
I've never quite understood those who complain about not being able to tune a 6ppc. The fact of the matter is, it's one of the easiest rounds to tune on the planet. How many other cartridges can you put any powder you want in there and stuff any bullet in the case and still have it shoot .3" or less?? The 30 br? Sure, but at the price of more recoil and it still won't negate your need to watch the flags like they were naked supermodels.

The difficulty some experience (I think) is rooted in the extreme characteristics of this sport. We are trying to shave thousandths off our groups across a trajectory that spans one and two and three football fields. That is not easy and I think the cartridge takes the brunt of the blame when it is actually our inability to read wind flags or some other problem.

I wonder how many times those 6ppc's get cussed and the powder measure knobs getted tweaked this way or that when it was actually a missed condition that caused "a bad group" (.3" which in the big picture really aint that bad).

Bottom line, if you can't get a 6ppc tuned, then maybe this ain't your sport. Compared to a 20 year old, off the shelf, factory 7mm mag with a rusty barrel that the owner wants to shoot 1/2 moa @ 1000 yards, ANY of the ppc's are an easy dream to tune. They are very readable. They tell you what they want quite obviously. But if you must, go get a 30 br and live happily ever after. Well, a least until you miss that 3rd windflag turn a bit the other way and then it's going to be "gosh D*^N thirty br, I shoulda stuck with the 6!".
 
JD Mock said:
Hall of Fame shooter, Bill Forrester shot his .22 very well. He finished tied for
5th place in the 2-gun. Bill is one of those shooters who can win with any capable rifle. Good shooting...James
Click to expand...
Bill is getting a kidney cut on in the next few days. Keep him in your thoughts and prayers.
 
goodgrouper said:
I've never quite understood those who complain about not being able to tune a 6ppc. The fact of the matter is, it's one of the easiest rounds to tune on the planet. How many other cartridges can you put any powder you want in there and stuff any bullet in the case and still have it shoot .3" or less?? The 30 br? Sure, but at the price of more recoil and it still won't negate your need to watch the flags like they were naked supermodels.

The difficulty some experience (I think) is rooted in the extreme characteristics of this sport. We are trying to shave thousandths off our groups across a trajectory that spans one and two and three football fields. That is not easy and I think the cartridge takes the brunt of the blame when it is actually our inability to read wind flags or some other problem.

I wonder how many times those 6ppc's get cussed and the powder measure knobs getted tweaked this way or that when it was actually a missed condition that caused "a bad group" (.3" which in the big picture really aint that bad).

Bottom line, if you can't get a 6ppc tuned, then maybe this ain't your sport. Compared to a 20 year old, off the shelf, factory 7mm mag with a rusty barrel that the owner wants to shoot 1/2 moa @ 1000 yards, ANY of the ppc's are an easy dream to tune. They are very readable. They tell you what they want quite obviously. But if you must, go get a 30 br and live happily ever after. Well, a least until you miss that 3rd windflag turn a bit the other way and then it's going to be "gosh D*^N thirty br, I shoulda stuck with the 6!".
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ROOO'AAAHHHHHH!!!!!!


Truer words were never spoken

al
 
Jackie that

jackie schmidt said:
Also, notice that in todays world of the latest in whiz bang a cad-cam actions, Mr Boyer won the 13.5 pound class with that old Hart HV, which was built when many of you were still in grade school......jackie
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is the first thing I noticed.

I am begining to wonder if MR.BOYER is MAN or MACHINE. Yes I will call him MR. BOYER because many of us can only dream of doing a portion of what he has done.

Unfortunately I think that old Hart is worth more than many of my investments.

Calvin
 
A good way to deal with this

Pete Wass said:
would be to take the 12 top shooters from the Supershoot, furnish 3 with a great 6PPC without tuner, 3 with 6 PPC's with a tuner, 3 and 3 30 BR,s; make them all HV so that nobody would whine about recoil and have them shoot a series of matches in which all of them could shoot each configuration 3 times . Certainly if the IROC folks can make 12 Camaros be very close to each other competatively, we could do the same with 12 rifles.

We could even consider them to be different Brands if that would please anyone and just see how it would go. I have seen a couple of 30 BR's with new tuners installed lately that are Awsome. A huge cloverleaf to a tiny round hole in 1/4 turn of the tuner; impressive.
Click to expand...

The 3 shooters that didn't get a rifle would probably whine about something!
 
GoodGrouper

I have scanned the Super Shoot results, and it seems at any given moment, 3/4 of the shooters were into the "threes", not any where near competitive, considering the conditions.

I believe 99 9/10 percent of the shooters were shooting a 6PPC.

Granted, just about every group match today is won with a 6PPC. But you can't help but notice that multitudes, in fact the majority of shooters, shoot really bad with the same chambering............jackie
 
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"not anywhere competitive, considering conditions'??

I guess Lester Bruno, Harley Baker, Allen Arnette, Jay Lynn Gore, Ron Hoehn, and a bunch of other top shooters missed their tune?
 
Jerry

JerrySharrett said:
"not anywhere competitive, considering conditions'??

I guess Lester Bruno, Harley Baker, Allen Arnette, Jay Lynn Gore, Ron Hoehn, and a bunch of other top shooters missed their tune?
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On this list one guy had scope problems and another guy had mechanical problems with their gun. We all know there are a bizillion things that go into being able to keep hammering groups all week at a match. No doubt tune is number one. The guys that have their guns working and make the least mistakes float to the top, and the rest of the field float to the bottom. IMO, when you are in second place, you're the first looser.

Later
Dave
 
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Jerry

I wasn't there, but have talked to enough shooters to get the idea that a LOT of shooters were having trouble keeping their Rifles working.

You know as well as I do that any Benchrest Shooter is no better than the Rifle sitting in the bags. It's a simple fact of Benchrest

There also seems to be an issue with barrels. It seems shooters, including the ones at the top, have gone through a whole mess of barrels to find a couple of good ones. But, as most know, you hang around this game long enough, and you will realize that this stuff goes in cycles.

From by own personal expaerience, the barrels we have at this moment leave a little to be desired. I have had the privelege of having some REALLY good barrels in the past couple of years, and the ones I have now are not in that category. Why??? I don't have a clue. I gave up trying to figure out why one barrel will be a screamer and the other, by all accounts identicle, will be locked into about a .280 capability

And it seems I am not the only one lamenting about the '07 Powder. From what I gather, the big problem seems to be that when it decides to go away, it goes WAAAAYYYY away.......jackie
 
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