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Hal, I know those guys. They are the one I want to beat. You guys are the folks with top of the line techniques and gear, so that's why I'm here.

Thanks. That is helpful. I'm curious about your comment with respect to the tight Lilja barrel. Are the larger Lilja's more popular? I know that Lilja does not seem as popular now as it was 10 yrs ago or so. Is it the "tight" or the "Lilja" part that is uncommon now? Could go to Shilen or...

I eavesdrop on this forum from time to time to learn what is the latest and greatest in .22 target rifles. This certainly seems to be the place to learn about that. However, my rifles are quite different than what passes fo the norm here. Now I have to deal with rebarreling one of my own...

The barrel is a Lilja that was cut and crowned at 17" long after being turned to about 0.6" diameter and then inserted inside an original 28" Winchester barrel that had been through-bored to 0.6". It is a relining but with a very short liner relative to the barrel and a much better quality...

If you mean "back bored" as opposed to a slightly radical crowning technique, it can do a lot of things, including freeing the bullet from the barrel more quickly before the barrel deviates away from that perfect aim you had when you first thought to push the trigger. My favorite .22 has an 11"...

If that is what they were for, they sure didn't get the job done. I did much better with mine using roundballs, but they were not great. Still don't see how a .22 is more like a patched roundball than a bpcr bullet.

Don, I have never seen a 48 twist roundball rifle do any better than "acceptable" at short ranges. And then only in hunting terms, not as a target rifle. But if long twist works for you at long range .22, I can't argue. Just doesn't match up well with anything I've seen, heard or learned before.

Don, It sure seems strange that a slower twist would work better at longer ranges. In any other lead bullet shooting, longer distances require the same or faster twists relative to short range. I like 16 twist for 200 yds. But I have not been able to experiment with quality slower twists.

The real problem is that w/o a supply of primed cases, the amateur experimenter cannot make any progress, unlike centerfire lead bullet shooters. So, the point is really moot. I believe the companies that make quality ammo do have quality bullet shapes, but I wonder if a host of different...

At the speed of .22 lr, a bit less point is probably better. I lean towards a prolate shape (true ellipse in 3d) with a nose that is about 1/2 as long as the overall bullet and a tangent ogive. I call it a 411 prolate and that shape works well across the sound barrier. It will probably...

MKnarr, that is exactly how I would do the experiment, but I am surprised that you got the EPS to have the higher BC. I believe you though. Just goes to show that intuition is not very accurate sometimes. Now, if I get time tonight I want to see how much difference 0.02 BC makes in wind...

I gotta wonder about that "buck the wind" comment. Have you measured a ballistic coefficient on that bullet relative to any others? I would guess it has a somewhat higher BC and that would have it tending to "buck the wind" much more poorly. One of these days, I'm going to measure the BC on...

Given the Eley EPS bullet vs the more traditional parabolic shapes, it does look like there has been some attempt to change bullet shapes. But I believe there may be a lot more to be gained in some cases. Given that most .22 target shooting is only 50 yds, there is not going to be a big premium...

Well, I think you can see that worrying about humidity in a 50 yd game - esp. when given sighters, is pretty much a waste of time. Why does one adjust a tuner once it is set. The whole idea behind the tuner it so find that resonant vibration in the rifle. Once that is found, it is a done...

Neither. It slows less quickly when there is more humidity because humidity reduces density and hence drag. Now over your 50 yd target range, I challenge you to compute the extra drop that occurs in a bullet launched at 1165 fps when the humidity drops from 100% to 50% all else being equal...

And they would just laugh at him, and there is damn little he can do about it. Such stupid statements are really not going to solve the problem are they? You would, I'm sure, be happy for a big federal tax increase to keep a fleet of oil megadisaster people and equipment on hand to clean up...

Everyone seems pretty deadset in their ways with regards to testing. That is strange give that testing is an exercise in objectivity and objectively speaking, there are really good ways to test and really bad ways to test. But be that as it may, it seems fairly well accepted that by the time...

I know who he is. And all of us shoot for fun. But so many of us waste so much data. Everyone on this website and for certain, Saeed, have the resources to test more formally. It is damned easy, but so few do. Yes, we have been down this road here before. No reason to go there again. I...

That will be harder to do without using some sort of formal analysis. But he ain't goin' there.

If you want an elegant one, I can find it for you. They cost of course and, no, I do not sell them. I have posted a picture of one on my .22 low wall on this forum in the past while it was wearing one. Brent .