Where Have All The Shooters Gone?

JimHeid said:
Many thanks for all the input.

However I now need to know how to proceed in building interest for our club.

Keep in mind these are non sanctioned 100 and 200 yard events.

How do you suggest a small club spark interest in this dicipline and make it available to the folks who may only wish to use a hunting style or varmmint type rifle? As well as attract those who already have the dedicated bench guns?

Thanks, Jim
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Jim, about 10 years ago a local club started what they call a cold bore shoot, One shot at 600 yards, dial/hold over/whatever, dope the wind and send down you best shot, 100% pay-out, you can bring more than one gun but only fire one round out of each. entry is $10 a gun and we try and split the payout to the top 25% closest to the target. Other clubs started doing it and soon guys were getting serious and compeditive. Guys would have a semi custom and share it with friends, it was a great social thing and 99% of the guys showing up never shot in a formal match.

This drew in a lot of hunting rifles and beer drinkers(only after shooting, (after all it is Wisconsin)). I would say 25% of those guys from 10 years ago evolved into some other compeditive sport; f-class, BR, tactical matches, ect. They just needed some exposure to some non-factory rifles and what was new in optics, and the bug bit them.
 
Another one just started was a Team score shoot. We made up a target similar to a reduced f-class. every one throws there name in the hat and teams are drawn, 4 per.

the pit service puts up 2 targets, one for 2 sighters, the other for 5 score shots. The team members shoot round robin. each teams first member one after the other, then each teams second member ect.
Only one person shoots at a time.

End of the day scores are added up and winning team gets the pot, and a payment to the individual with the highest individual score.

again this is over 50% factory guns and because it's team at random drawing no one feels slighted as the better equiped are goated to carry the team.

And the best way to get these attended are by drumming up the local hunters/recreational shooters who normally would turn you down when invited to a formal BR match, (less intimidating when it's called a fun shoot)(and you drink beer when it's done)
 
Lynn - I haven't heard anything other than what you wrote here but I did notice that a whole bunch of agenda items failed to get a second. Imagine that after your tirade on the internet.

I apologize for inferring that you lied. Now, are you gonna be able to let it go as far as this forum is concerned? I'll respect your decision either way.
 
Wilbur
All of the shooters out here on the westcoast already know why none of the agenda items got a second vote.I did notice when the IBS longrange shooters had a minor problem with the scoring a bigger tirade got things fixed immediately.Imagine that.
As far as letting things go I simply answered the original posters question where have all the shooters gone.I realize you are caught between what is the factual truth and your past loyalties and future income so I will drop the issue.
My comment about "NOT GETTTING IT" should have read "DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH."
Lynn
 
JIM Hind
To answer your questiion , Heres what we do at our club.
each wednesday morning we have a club shoot. The fee is $5 and 50% is returned to the shooters as prizes.
We shoot the score target at 200 yds. we shoot for group and or score your choice.
You can do this on the weekend as a scrub match. If someone wants to shoot groups with a benchrest rifle let him ,
Just put him or her in a seperate class. Its really easy.
you can get a plug from the local new paper in the sports section at times or run an ad.
Just a few things that can be done. Keep it light and make sure all of the shooters have a good time, thats what it,s supposed to be. As the interest grows more will want a better shooting rig and with some luck benchrest shooters will appear. Make it fun.
 
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This is right

jackie schmidt said:
Thank You Charles, you got it.
At the Tomball Club Matches, I set up the Matches to where there is still the precision and competitive nature of Benchrest, but in a more relaxed atmosphere. For instance, the rules concerning the equipment are pretty liberal. In fact, in the top class, there is only one rule. The "Rifle" must be a legal firearm.

But these are Club Matches. In Registered Competition, I would like to see a list of items that we should "change" in order to attract more shooter, especially younger ones.

One fact remains, regardless of how you structure the rules, and the Sanctioning Bodies Protocols, shooters will still have to shoot just as good of aggs, or hit just as many X's, as before.

So what's the point.......jackie
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I like the rules in your match. I would be a lot more inclined to shoot something like this. I have never shot a benchrest match, but I have shot f-class and I'm having a rifle built for it. One of the big draws is the sheer amount of shooting.
 
Gerry, just out of curiosity what is a scrub match?
Sounds like a practice match that doesnt count.
Since you hold matches on Wed morning when the most people who are not retired work, would it be correct to surmise that you cater or prefer retired members?
 
Then they go out and hide their own Easter Eggs post match and they get to meet all new friends at every match...Care to join? :)

Vern said:
Gerry, just out of curiosity what is a scrub match?
Sounds like a practice match that doesnt count.
Since you hold matches on Wed morning when the most people who are not retired work, would it be correct to surmise that you cater or prefer retired members?
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"Where have all the shooters gone"?

Where have all the shooters gone? The same place(s) that sportsmen/participants have and will go from any sport/hobby and for the same reason's. Its a Hobby!, A revolving door!. A leisure Sport that we do in our spare time,if we can afford it. Its relaxation for some and almost a non paying career for others. Nobody signs a contract to stick around for life. However,some have been around a very long time. There is no in-house professional recruitment program designed to maintain the status quo. Some of the Posters on this thread will eventually choose to sell their equipment and do other things in life. Some will have no choice.

Think about where your journey began in this fun Sport of Benchrest Competition. Who is responsible for your addiction? It may be time for you to pass that addiction on to somebody you know.

I'm going to continue to enjoy the fun while I've got a few years left. Going to the range today.


Glenn
 
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Yes we have a lot of retired shooters Its an Informal shoot. Its open to anyone who wants to come member of the club or not. Some shooters have days off not all are retired.
We could hold the matches on a saturday. Right now this is what works for us. anyone who can shoot is welcome.
These are simple rules to follow Safety first.'' The time limits are flexable to a point also.
We found out this is a good way to get people interested.
Last 2 years we had people drive from about 100 miles away just to participate and have fun.
it works.''
PS there are 19 seperate leagues at our club. trap skeet sporting clays pistol 2 police leagues silouette Pistol and rifle pistol indoors etc etc. We are a very active club. 700 members last year and a lot of renewals again this year. We are very friendly. I think thats the key . everyone gets along, the members respect each others
type of shooting.
 
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I'm a young guy, relatively. I love accuracy shooting. I'm 28 and have been serious about shooting since my late teens. In those days, I would have given anything to have shot BR. Anymore, I have very little interest.

Currently, I do shoot "tactical" and F-class, but opportunities are few and far between. Largely, because of cost.

My "tactical" rifle does great as double-duty with hunting and F-class. A person can spend thousands on a "tactical" rifle, but most don't and don't need to to be competitive. One needs a scope that tracks and a rifle that will hold sub-MOA. Most of the guys I know use a Bushnell Elite, Sightron, Leupold, or even a Nightforce. Guys often have $500-1500 in optics, and $500-1500 in the rifle, including a bipod, bases/rings, etc.

Frankly, attitude of BR shooters like those expressed here has been quite the turn-off. Certainly, BR shooters know what they are doing and are quite good at it. But their dismissive attitude seems disturbing and is quite a turn-off. Why would I spend the money to build a rifle competitive in BR shooting to join a bunch of people that find my other shooting hobbies as they have been in this thread? After all, a competitive BR rig would cost me the price of a custom action, a very expensive stock, a scope, a 2 oz trigger (without a safety), and a dedicated scope. Then I need very good reloading equipment and an expensive rest and sandbags. This is a very expensive combo to be competitive and its very impractical for any other discipline. Perhaps a BR would be "ok" for varmint hunting from a bench, but for the most part BR is like an F1 car. I can't use an F1 car to haul the groceries, or to drive to work every day.

I don't play video games and have no interest in it. I don't "dream of shooting people" or any of the bullcrap described in this thread. Nor do any of the people I shoot with. The suggestion that is how we feel is asinine. The reality is that "tactical" and F-class shooting is more practical. These are firearms a person can use to hunt with. The discipline is practical and more appealing to most shooters. It is less dependent on the equipment and more dependent on the shooter. Not only does one have to read the wind, but he or she most determine the range and make a shot and do so from multiple positions. Groups don't matter---its the score.

If you want to attract new shooters, you've got to change attitudes.
 
I'm a young guy, relatively. I love accuracy shooting. I'm 28 and have been serious about shooting since my late teens. In those days, I would have given anything to have shot BR. Anymore, I have very little interest.

Currently, I do shoot "tactical" and F-class, but opportunities are few and far between. Largely, because of cost.

My "tactical" rifle does great as double-duty with hunting and F-class. A person can spend thousands on a "tactical" rifle, but most don't and don't need to to be competitive. One needs a scope that tracks and a rifle that will hold sub-MOA. Most of the guys I know use a Bushnell Elite, Sightron, Leupold, or even a Nightforce. Guys often have $500-1500 in optics, and $500-1500 in the rifle, including a bipod, bases/rings, etc.

Frankly, attitude of BR shooters like those expressed here has been quite the turn-off. Certainly, BR shooters know what they are doing and are quite good at it. But their dismissive attitude seems disturbing and is quite a turn-off. Why would I spend the money to build a rifle competitive in BR shooting to join a bunch of people that find my other shooting hobbies as they have been in this thread? After all, a competitive BR rig would cost me the price of a custom action, a very expensive stock, a scope, a 2 oz trigger (without a safety), and a dedicated scope. Then I need very good reloading equipment and an expensive rest and sandbags. This is a very expensive combo to be competitive and its very impractical for any other discipline. Perhaps a BR would be "ok" for varmint hunting from a bench, but for the most part BR is like an F1 car. I can't use an F1 car to haul the groceries, or to drive to work every day.

I don't play video games and have no interest in it. I don't "dream of shooting people" or any of the bullcrap described in this thread. Nor do any of the people I shoot with. The suggestion that is how we feel is asinine. The reality is that "tactical" and F-class shooting is more practical. These are firearms a person can use to hunt with. The discipline is practical and more appealing to most shooters. It is less dependent on the equipment and more dependent on the shooter. Not only does one have to read the wind, but he or she most determine the range and make a shot and do so from multiple positions. Groups don't matter---its the score.

If you want to attract new shooters, you've got to change attitudes.
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Pretty much says it all. Cost alone locks it out for many potential shooters.
 
I'll jump in with my 0.02$, I can give the perspective from a 47yr old's view who wanted to get into BR as far back as 1987.

From 1987 to 1989, I got serious about college and could barely afford bullets, much less a "custom" action, but I kept my PS subscription up. I had varmint rifles at the time and one would read that you could show up with a "factory" rig and have fun. I went to several BR matches in 2 different states. I was all but ignored and got looks like who invited you & what are you doing with that rifle here look. Was I respectfull and paitent and realize I was the new guy so tread lightly, yep. Even offered to help in any way I could. Nope, wasn't part of the "club".

Got married and started a family in 1991, still could'nt afford a custom rig, but lived in a different part of the country and decided to attend some matches and see if I cant meet someone and at least get the inside dope on what it takes to shoot like that. "Nope, I was an outsider. Nope, I did not have a 6ppc. Nope, you cant help, we got people who do that or that or that.". Kept my subscription to PS alive and kept the dream going, know someday, I will do this. Kept myself happy shooting Prairie Dogs and Paper with my factory rifles..

2001-2003, in different parts of the country again, still married and raising kids, no custom rig yet. Was hanging out at a local range, one Sunday, watched a service rifle match and was asked why I was'nt shooting, I replied I dont have a service rifle. "Here, you can shoot mine". I shot Service Rifle matches with a borrowed NM M1A and borrowed AR. I did not ask to borrow, they were all but thrust in my hands and told to shoot the dang thing and have fun.

2004-2006, Different parts of the country again. Went to watch an F-class match and was asked why I wasnt shooting, I replied I am just here to watch, I dont have a rig to shoot. "Well here, you can shoot mine". More travels, attended another F-class match, went to volunteer in pits or whatever. Again I was asked, why I wasn't shooting. Said I am traveling for work, just want to watch and offer help in the pits. "Okay, but your gonna shoot my rig in the team match later."

2007: I got to the point where I was finacially able and started building my F-class rifle and assemble the gear.

2010: Met up with some short range BR guys, they asked me to join them shooting. I did not have a 6ppc, I did not have wind flags, I had a brake on one rifle, I did not load at the range. I wasn't asked to join them again..

2007-2011: With the help of Great people, Competitors, Mentors, friends, from all over the country. I have shot in F-class matches with my own gear and have met great guys, actually life-long friends. Made it to the F-class nationals, I have met F-class guys that also shoot Palma, prone & XTC. Hey Rod you gotta try this, come to this match, come to that match, call me when in town, we'll go shooting....

2012: My 17 yr old daughter is going to shoot F-class with me this yr.

Take it for what its worth, the above is my personal experience in appx 6 different states over a 25 yr period. Today, the accuracy, the components, the gear of Short Range BR still lites a fire in me. Will I ever shoot a 6ppc in a match, Doubtful! My focus will be on getting new people into F-Class/HighPower and hopefully they will make the lifelong friendships with other shooters across the world like I have in F-Class/Highpower...

Respectfully,

Rod Vigstol
 
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There's several reasons that come to mind, but ultimately it's an expensive sport that you have to sink lots of time and money into (even to become remotely competitive) and it's just not feasible to start when you don't have the disposable income or time to own the equipment and practice enough to be any good.

The assumptions made about younger generations don't help much either.
 
Nodak7mm said:
I'll jump in with my 0.02$, I can give the perspective from a 47yr old's view who wanted to get into BR as far back as 1987.

From 1987 to 1989, I got serious about college and could barely afford bullets, much less a "custom" action, but I kept my PS subscription up. I had varmint rifles at the time and one would read that you could show up with a "factory" rig and have fun. I went to several BR matches in 2 different states. I was all but ignored and got looks like who invited you & what are you doing with that rifle here look. Was I respectfull and paitent and realize I was the new guy so tread lightly, yep. Even offered to help in any way I could. Nope, wasn't part of the "club".

Got married and started a family in 1991, still could'nt afford a custom rig, but lived in a different part of the country and decided to attend some matches and see if I cant meet someone and at least get the inside dope on what it takes to shoot like that. "Nope, I was an outsider. Nope, I did not have a 6ppc. Nope, you cant help, we got people who do that or that or that.". Kept my subscription to PS alive and kept the dream going, know someday, I will do this. Kept myself happy shooting Prairie Dogs and Paper with my factory rifles..

2001-2003, in different parts of the country again, still married and raising kids, no custom rig yet. Was hanging out at a local range, one Sunday, watched a service rifle match and was asked why I was'nt shooting, I replied I dont have a service rifle. "Here, you can shoot mine". I shot Service Rifle matches with a borrowed NM M1A and borrowed AR. I did not ask to borrow, they were all but thrust in my hands and told to shoot the dang thing and have fun.

2004-2006, Different parts of the country again. Went to watch an F-class match and was asked why I wasnt shooting, I replied I am just here to watch, I dont have a rig to shoot. "Well here, you can shoot mine". More travels, attended another F-class match, went to volunteer in pits or whatever. Again I was asked, why I wasn't shooting. Said I am traveling for work, just want to watch and offer help in the pits. "Okay, but your gonna shoot my rig in the team match later."

2007: I got to the point where I was finacially able and started building my F-class rifle and assemble the gear.

2010: Met up with some short range BR guys, they asked me to join them shooting. I did not have a 6ppc, I did not have wind flags, I had a brake on one rifle, I did not load at the range. I wasn't asked to join them again..

2007-2011: With the help of Great people, Competitors, Mentors, friends, from all over the country. I have shot in F-class matches with my own gear and have met great guys, actually life-long friends. Made it to the F-class nationals, I have met F-class guys that also shoot Palma, prone & XTC. Hey Rod you gotta try this, come to this match, come to that match, call me when in town, we'll go shooting....

2012: My 17 yr old daughter is going to shoot F-class with me this yr.

Take it for what its worth, the above is my personal experience in appx 6 different states over a 25 yr period. Today, the accuracy, the components, the gear of Short Range BR still lites a fire in me. Will I ever shoot a 6ppc in a match, Doubtful! My focus will be on getting new people into F-Class/HighPower and hopefully they will make the lifelong friendships with other shooters across the world like I have in F-Class/Highpower...

Respectfully,

Rod Vigstol
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Rod, Sorry to hear that you were treated that way by BR folks. It's the complete opposite of my first experiences. If you ever take a notion to give it another go, come down our way...I feel certain you won't be treated badly here.--Mike
 
Rod
Your experience mimics my own.
I took my wife to a shortrange benchrest match and they wouldn't let either of us take pictures of there guns.The general feeling was watch those two we don't know them.My wife asked me what was wrong with those people when we left.
Went to a 50 BMG match and Skip Talbot spotted my wife and grabbed her by the hand and showed her off to everyone on the line.She was offered a half dozen different rifles to shoot met and talked with all of the best shooters and we ordered up our first 50 BMG that same day.This was way back before digital cameras and she took about 120 35mm pictures.
From what I see Texas has about the friendliest shortrange shooters.
Lynn
 
Lynn said:
...they wouldn't let either of us take pictures of there guns.
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Friendly folks at shooting events can make a big impression.

People don't believe me when I tell them this, but in the very early days of pistol silhouette, none of us really knew what we were doing. Equipment standards, especially for unlimited pistols, had not settled into the same-o/same-o of later years. I can remember shoots at Uvalde and New Braunfels (the Dietz range) where people literally left their unlimited pistols on pads or atop open cases on the tailgates of their pickups. Why? So that everyone who came by could feel free to pick 'em up, examine 'em, and learn from each other.

In the early days, I don't think any new shooting sport ever grew as quickly as pistol silhouette.

Of course, it sorta flamed out later but that was for reasons not germane to this discussion. I still think the point is valid - nice folks who make you feel welcome, up to and including thrusting a pistol into your hands and leading you to the firing line, can lead new people who only have some vague interest in the shooting sports to conclude they've found a home.
 
First I will respond to tylerw02, I can see were your coming from, however I can say the crowd I shoot with are very willing to help, give good advise and are great people to just hang around with. Jcwitt, missed it, tyler is not totally sold on the cost of our sport as much as the mind set of some of our participants. Not all of us share those views. It is rare I am the one shooting all the rounds I take to the club on any given weekend. I will have as many as 4-5 youngsters and their parents behind my gun on some days. I just hope the feeling of hitting a small dot on a score target will stick with them or spark an interrest. At 45 I am one off the younger ones that compete in my area. We do have some younger shooters at times, they are sons or daughters of older shooters. We are our only advertisments, our actions and attitudes speak louder then any magazine or TV add. In our defense, we have some of the most friendly, easy going and tallented people gathered together to win a match. All that I have been around are willing to help and get someone truely interrested started. Remeber when reading posts on a Benchrest site, we will tend to be partial to our sport. Not all posts reflect emotion very well at times. Getting to know some of these guys is an absolute pleasure, they really are great people and fierce competitors.

Cost has slowed me down some, I will mostly stay in state and 1-2 trips on vacations, planned way ahead, to Vermont. I do work several weekends, but plan around that. Its all in interrest, I would do the same if it were Domino's or competitive Ping Pong. We do need to some how change the perception of our sport and gain interrest in Women and the younger generation, as this is the future. From selling Books to Automobiles, young people and women drive all markets and legislation listens to them. Be nice to see on a shooting show from time to time ..
Lynn, I have never seen that type of response ever. As long as you ask first, I'd let you shoot a match with either of my rifles.

Andy B
 
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Jcwitt, missed it,
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Ah, How so? I agreed with tylerw02 as you are doing with your post Andy B. So how did I miss it?

All I did was add the comment regarding the price of the gear, ect to start up, meaning in this economy for the younger shooter.

I've helped with the National Metric Small Bore Matches the last 2 years and have heard comments by some of the praticiptants about how they have had to save up all year to buy the gas to attend the matches and also go to Perry. And you claim I'm missing it?

OK, I'm just a dumb xxx.
 
Nodak7mm:

Glad you found your niche. In case you're a saint & never noticed, most humans form "us" & "them" groups. Accounts for all sort of misery in the world, but also lets people feel they're important. In case you didn't notice, you just did it too.

FWIW, we've had some F-class guys come and shoot with us in 1,000 yard benchrest, They did quite well, and we all found each other to be nice people, once the sniffing was done.

I wish two things (1) more F-class guys would shoot with us, and (2) I was young enough, flexible enough, and pain-free enough to get down on my belly & shoot with them. In other words, it's MY defects that keep me from shooting F-class.

You would find that you probably have an advantage in LR benchrest in the score category. If you're going to win the nationals, you need to be able to shoot for score. The groups will be there. Even though "group" is the rock star in people's minds (even in long range), score not only pays just as much, it's needed for overall wins. And it's harder on the shooter, even if easier on the equipment.

Give it a try.
 
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