Where Have All The Shooters Gone?

Kids and Shooting

You really can,t put the total Blame on kids . We were all in the same boat at one time .
I can,t see how a 25 year old married with kids is going to have the time or money to shoot .
When I started shooting Registered Trap a bag of shot was $3.25 now it,s close to $30.00 .
a round of practice (25 targets) was $1.25 now $4.50 to $8.00 a round .
A good trap gun cost $500/600.00 now the sky is the limit .

It,s close to the same with Rifles if your going to do more then just go bang ?
 
KEYBEAR........You are wrong about a beginner to Trapshooting. A suitable gun (Used?), a simple Mec reloader and supplies, used hulls, glasses, ear muffs,etc would run under $2,000. Pistol .22 + etc......under $1200. There is a lot of fun out there and you don't have to go broke enjoying it. Needless to say, it's a different story if you want to show up at the range with Custom gold-plated stuff. We mostly started started dipping our toe in the water, didn't we?

Ted
 
So you think I,m wrong ? OK do this go to any Trap shooting Web Site find me one shooter under 25 that is shooting registerd and real competition . With out mom or dad where is not any .

Shooting can,t compete with Girls - Cars and Video games . Then The kid gets married now he has got a home a car and kids to pay for . You may get him back to shooting when he is 45 or older (to late)

As for the you can buy a used gun OK. Fine me one real trap gun under $4,000.00 and is he going to just play or really shoot ? That will cost a lot more the gun is the cheap part .

I have heard it all before and you are wrong that is why all the shooting sports are down the average age is not in the 30,s or 40,s is it . If we count on the KIDs we are done as a sport .
 
To add to what Francis mentioned, not only more matches, but more types of matches. Within a 2-1/2 hour drive, I can shoot rimfire, IBS score, IBS 1,000 yard, and a couple of NBRSA group matches. All benchrest, of course. I haven't gone to an NBRSA group match in several years, because to compete in more than 2 of these, my driving time goes way up. Use to be there was no choice, so you drove. No longer. But I'm actually shooting more.
 
Many thanks for all the well thought out responses.

As I was reading through them it occurred to me that maybe to get more attendance we should call it something different such as Sniper Competition. Folks could then use their AR's or AK's or even limit the fun to 223's or 308's.

Or maybe become more focused on rimfire. Our indoor rimfire shoots are getting really good turnouts.

Again thanks to all who offered their opinions.

Jim
 
JimHeid
The biggest problem is getting new shooters to come back after there first match.
If a new shooter shows up and sees or thinks they see a real or perceived non-level playing field they absolutely won't be back.
If your sanctioning body has rules and nobody is following them your sport will die.No ifs ands or buts about it the sport will die.
Recently there was a thread on the 1000 yard forum and one of the sanctioning bodies had changed a rule were people thought others were at an advantage.Real or perceived didn't matter it got ugly very quickly with long time shooters threatening to sell there guns and quit shooting.
If the rules are followed there is zero whining as everybody is in the same boat.Take a new shooter out and put him/her on the worst bench and relay because the gurus say the bench doesn't matter and you'll never see that new shooter again.
Lynn
 
Last edited:
I shot bench 40 or so years back when here in Australia, you could have a good time with a Sako Vixen with a heavy barrel. About then, we would regularly see the likes of Jim Clark & other F1 pilots with their cars competing in our open wheeler races against our domestic specials and the like. Since then, it seems to me that both sports have developed in a similar manner - the expense, technical smarts & necessary skills have made them mind bogglingly sophisticated & far beyond the reach of the the average Joe's wildest dreams if he ever dreams of something so esoteric.

But while there are now many lesser levels of open wheeler motor sport that a novice can try, ones that might fit his circumstances at a pinch, bench rest presents itself as an all or nothing deal - there seems to be no kindergarten where a newcomer can dip his toe in, no entry level for him to participate against those of similar skills.
 
I know a dozen shooters who would gladly sell their left nut to shoot benchrest, but that won't get 'er done. These are avid shooters with families, businesses and other commitments that come before their personal selfish pleasures. Most folks simply do not have the requisite disposable income.

IMO the interest is there but the commitment both in time and money is just too large for many of the younger folk..... by younger folk I mean those under 50!

I could easily round up 10 people on any given weekend eager to shoot and compete, if I pay the tab. I see folks in this thread who, like me HAVE picked up the tab and enjoyed it but as a fellow says earlier on....... it's an expensive sport. Bottom line is that few can afford it. (I know, as racing sports go it's CHEAP, but then very few people own a race car too :) )

I spent many years with a 3-D archery range in my yard and an indoor range in my shop for this reason, we could get together every week, year round, and compete madly and if we were extremely focused maybe cost the other guy a few bucks by wrecking an arrow or two. In archery one can spend 5-600.00, maybe a grand tops and shoot all year. And the next year, and the next. There is very little upkeep, arrows last a long time and then cost less than a box of magnum hunting ammunition to replace. I still shot firearms at that time but only two of my archery buddies joined me, one of them came to a couple matches but then ran out of funds. NOT interest, just funds.

I simply can't get on the bandwagon about "the younger generation" or even the action or blaze-away sports..... IMO they're SHOOTERS, and every shooter is intrigued by real accuracy and will try to level up AS HE CAN AFFORD IT....

Keep the passion alive and they will come.

As they can,

al
 
Wrote this a few years ago....May apply, may not

The following is an excerpt from an old article I was working on and never did finish. Some of you may remember how corny it was. Doesn't directly apply to the subject but your mind can run with it for a moment.
______________________

Look Before You Leap

Before we jump into the nuts and bolts of competitive benchrest, some uncomfortable details have to be addressed - Right here, right now. There may be folks that visualize themselves playing benchrest shooter without a full understanding of some prerequisites. A couple or three questions need to be asked and realistic answers are recommended.

1) Do I have the time?

The possibility exists that sanctioned Benchrest Shooting is not something you can do. Attending a sanctioned match will very likely (if not always) require traveling hundreds of miles and the expense of a weekend from early Friday afternoon to late Sunday night. In many locations, that would be a minimum. Do some homework to determine where you will have to go to compete.

Later, there will be a suggestion to travel to a match just to look around and get a feel for "things". If following that suggestion gives you the slightest heartburn then perhaps a re-think of the whole idea is necessary. A "problem" with time resources is not a show stopper in some cases but a significant consideration in every case. Don't fail to factor in family commitments - both real and perceived

2) Do I have the money?

The purpose of this question is not to have you evaluate your relative net worth. Trust me, you have ENOUGH money. The real question is whether or not you have THE money? I talked with a spectator at a match one Sunday and he stated that he would dearly love to get into benchrest shooting but just couldn't afford it. Later, I was cleaning my rifle and saw him driving away in a brand new custom painted chrome plated pickup truck pulling a real nice trailer. There was a four wheeler in the bed of the truck and three more on the trailer. I figured the 4 wheelers were a family thing and that was how his priorities aligned. On the way home that night my Caravan shuddered past 170K and I paid the light bill plus late charge on Wednesday. It was either pay the light bill or get my wife's partial plate fixed. It all worked out well at the time because I bought a jug of powder and all we could afford was soup and mashed potatoes anyway. Money is not a show stopper either. Just give it some direct thought before you end up taking a loss on your purchases.

3) Am I a competitor?

Last but by no means least is the will to win and a tolerance for losing. It's OK to have a little internal bleeding because your last shot knocked you out of a 3 Gun win at the nationals. That's the way it should be. Try not to let it trickle to the outside. It's not OK to be satisfied with less than the win nor is it OK if warts grow on your lips if you don't win. Nobody wins every time and nobody is expected to win every time. If you already know that you can't laugh it off or don't believe that you can win then pass on Competitive Benchrest Shooting. This IS a show stopper. If you are so disposed, you can't have fun and it's the fun that keeps you going.
 
And...

There ain't never been many young'uns at a benchrest match and very few young adults. Based on that, the question becomes...where are those folks that have been showing up?

I agree that there are too many matches for the number of active competitors. It has become difficult to find weekends that match directors can call their own. That's likely the result of the increased cost of traveling and may not be a bad thing overall. What's better, two competitors at each of six matches or ten competitors at one match? I'll vote for ten at one match but I have to give up two competitors to get my way.

And Pete - we're with you on that "Zumbo-ish" statement you made. We just don't say it because it makes us look like we could support some sort of control if it were the right kind. I'm just sayin'...
 
Where cost is concerned, I think of the action shooting sports as being in the same level to somewhat more expensive than BR.
I know several people that shoot it, with nice equipment on a fairly limited budget. The biggest difference in cost IMO is practice time, ammo cost(volume) and associated upkeep. Some shooters spend considerably more than others in this respect. I know a very good shooter, who is no world beater though, that shoots an average of 600 rounds per week, practice. Most don't put in this much effort. But it averages out pretty close to BR costs across the board.

What I think we have to recognize, is that action shooting is growing despite the costs, has a much larger base, and that it has a lower median age for participants. The age issue may or may not be offset somewhat by the more physical nature of the game driving some of them out earlier than in BR.
So why??
What I see is better marketing, for one thing, through TV, magazines and internet.
Another,is accessibility to ranges holding these matches...often only a few minutes, not hours or days from home.
Maybe most importantly, they have classes in which they can shoot their "justifiable" and /or already owned guns. i.e., handgun(personal protection), AR15(PP, hunting,plinking), and shotgun(PP, hunting, or other). So, they can go compete in a lower class with unmodified guns they either already own or simply aren't as specialized as a BR rifle is. Face it, these rifles aren't good for much else, except maybe as a prarie dog gun in some cases:eek:. This is IMO the biggest difference in getting new participants to give it a try. They don't have to go spend 5-10K on highly specialized equipment to find out if they like it or not, or to compete in general in the lower divisions. They have a list of factory guns that are legal.
Perhaps this is what factory class in BR should become....i.e. Unmodified Savage only or the like. That would make policing factory class simpler.
They also have divisions for different levels of shooter abilities and well defined(albeit complicated at times) rules.
I'm not advocating anything here, just pointing out some of the differences that I see and that I don't think it's as simple as cost alone.--Mike
 
Last edited:
In my "neck of the woods" there are lots of BR rifles...but getting the owners to come to a match has been a real headache...always something else going on can't make it to the scheduled match...but there are hundreds of "black gun" shooters show up at our club every weekend burning thousands of $ worth of ammo...I give credit to the movies and television...I remember when "Dirty Harry" came to the big screen...the cost of a S&W model 29 went from $289 to $475 overnite...everyone was buying .44 magnums...not many could handle the recoil and muzzle blast...but they had a real 44 magnum by gosh...just can't beat the movies for firearms sales...just look how popular sniper rifles got after the movie "Sniper" hit the big screen...now we are shooting "tactical rifle" competition..
 
i really feel mike has hit the nail squarely on the head. [ and driven it deep into the coffin] hit a few more nails and the lid will be nailed shut forever.

at the moment my pet peeve is a serious conflict of dates for this year. nearly every match i wish to attend [particularly those nearby] has a serious conflict with another match. my local club has a conflict within my region on all its match dates. throw in nearby states that are not in my region that are holding matches on the same dates and i wont attend many matches this year. with so much conflict out club is guaranteed less than 12 guns on the line.
 
JimHeid said:
As I was reading through them it occurred to me that maybe to get more attendance we should call it something different such as Sniper Competition. Folks could then use their AR's or AK's or even limit the fun to 223's or 308's.
Click to expand...
Precisely those things (sniper matches, matches limited to service rifles, benchrest-from-prone limited to 223's and 308's - all of it) are already in existence and the matches fairly well attended. They are just attended by a different circle of folks than those who go to "traditional" benchrest matches.
 
I make it the (now) 330 miles to Riverbend Gun Club for 1 day club matches 3-4 times a year and have noticed that attendance levels there have been at least constant compared to the last 15 years or so. I used to shoot 600-1000 yard tactical matches at a range near Auburn, AL. Haven't shot it in a while but still get the monthly match reports and notice the attendance levels there have significantly increased.
 
I've read all the posted replies to this thread and here are some observations........
In the early '40s I was on a high school rifle team. Most high schools had teams. It was no big deal to see a young lad with a slung rifle on a bicycle on his way to an organized match. Today!! he'd be stopped and arrested.
In the '60s I taught Safety/Shooting to Boy Scouts and Cubs for their badges only to have several parents complain about their kids handling "dangerous" guns and learning to kill.
Today a lad can be in deep trouble if he draws a picture of a gun in class.
Public Relations....the shooting sports are no longer considered a sport by the news media. That is why we have few young replacements for the diminishing number of competitive shooters and they must earn a living during these trying times. Couple all this with the increasing number of different Kinds of matches and the costs of Customized guns and you've answered the question.
 
I'll toss out some thoughts that might not be popular, but it's how I see things:

-BR needs to come out of the '60's mindset that somehow everything has to be donated (time) for free. Adjust the entry fees so the ranges can actually pay a decent wage for the target crew and range officers. I can go to a two day IBS or NBRSA registered event and for $50-$60 shoot two days at 100/200 for a total of four yardages....that's embarassingly cheap for the work involved by the range.

-We shoot the most accurate rifles on Planet Earth, yet we compete for peanuts when it comes to winnings and guard our sport like it's some sort of secret fishing hole. Adjusting the entry fees would allow for at least some sort of payback to the top finishers.

-Less small events and more regional 'Big Shoots' would be a positive thing. Shooters would have more free weekends and save money in the long run. Make these regional events a true 'must attend' by offering double points, bigger purses, etc.

-A Score Super Shoot (for lack of a better term) would be a slam dunk success. Look at what the Kelbly's have done with the Super Shoot....great model. With the rise of Score Shooting, the first range to embrace and offer a Score Super Shoot could make bank on this one event per season.

There's no future in looking backwards, but that seems to be where we're stuck.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
FBecigneul said:
I came back here to mention something entirely different from what has been said before dead one's comments.
The lack of "volunteers" at the matches
It is harder to put a number of matches on per year at any given club today because of the lack of workers who are willing to volunteer their time to actually run the matches. Middle Georgia Gun Owners at Dublin, Georgia comes to mind first. The Shamrock this year will be their only benchrest match there this year. This is down considerably from the time of their rise to prominance some years back when Ed Hall brought BR there. Palmetto withdrew their bid for the IBS score nationals a couple-three years ago because they could not get sufficient workers for the match. The National ended up at Holton. Do we care to look at the reason for the lack of workers? Some clubs' membership dues include "mandatory" work hours by their members as a requirement of membership. But that mandatory isn't so mandatory; the prima donnas can buy their out of the work. Where does that money go? Does it go toward compensation for the hours spent by their members when working at these matches? Perhaps it should rather than into the "general funds" of said club. I'm saying, "Pay the workers" at the matches. I can't say how a club is run but this paying of your way out of working should be examined. This is a bit out of bounds and more far reaching than what has been said in the earlier posts but maybe the problems are more deep seeded than we think. And, the solution may be easier than thought.
Click to expand...

Agreed,Francis, but the handgun and 3 gun matches actually take more work and more workers to put on in most cases and if they're lucky, they might shoot for free or at a discounted rate as pay. Either way, it's generally not an issue for them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TheoW has a very good point. My shooting hobby started in the late 1950's with my father. I can well remember those days and the respect and freedom shooters had. That's gone! I was 12 years old and walked the entire length of my street with my .22 slung over my shoulder to get to the spot in the hills where I liked to shoot. Later in the day I would walk the entire street with a bag of newspapers slung over my shoulder working my paper route. Try walking in public with a gun nowdays. I think paperboys are all but gone too thanks to TV and the internet. "Gun" is now a dirty word being taught by enlightened parents and the shooting sports in general are facing a whole new attitude nationally. I see where ranges are under attack notably in one instance where the people causing the trouble werent even born when the range was set up. Long live benchrest, but it's easy to see why numbers are dwindling.
 
I had much the same thing happen to me as spfld did in the early 60s. A friend of mine and myself walked from one end of town to the other to hunt ground hogs, we had to walk threw the heart of the town to get where we were going. Well my buddy wanted to stop off at his bank and get a couple of bucks, we both walked in the bank carrying our .22 rifles. I waited inside the door holding unto both guns while he got his money. We didn't attract any attention what so ever and went on our merry way. I have seen the swat team called for a far less of a threat in this so called modern day age.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top