Clarification of new IBS Proposal SC#4

You all that are trying to pass along this "size doesn't matter are smokin somethin real good! Where has this disappeared to? At one time, all the talk was how much of an advantage the 30 gave over a 6mm. And it's there, it's a real fact.

And to say the scores now with the 30 aren't much better than when everyone was shooting a 6? C'mon, you aint serious. Were there great scores shot with 6's, sure! A bunch of them. But the number of great scores now are commonplace. Were there 23, 24 X's shot with a 6, yes! But only a few. Now, if you shoot LESS than 23 X's, you're in the middle to the bottom of the pack.

In group, center-to-center stays the same. There is no advantage between caliber size(if measured properly). In score, if someone came out with a 35 or 40 caliber great bullet and barrels, the 30 would be dead in a year.
 
The stages of acceptance of change:

i. this is worthless nonsense,
ii. this is interesting, but perverse,
iii. this is true, but quite umimportant,
iv. I always said so.
-J. B. S. Haldane 1963

During stage one (1) it isn't unusual for some to behave quite irrationally; to the extent of making unsubstantiated and nonsensical statements about the issue at hand and/or attacking anyone who dares to challenge the status quo.

It is also quite evident that anyone who repeatedly takes unprovoked jabs at the character and/or abilities of others is likely suffering from the very shortcomings that they cite.

-Dave-:rolleyes:
 
Does anyone remember

The 30 BR Graveyard sign and all that went along with that? Only took another year before it was a 30 BR Prooving Ground, aye? I think it is pointless to have a seperate LVFS class UNLESS there is a caliber restriction. There allready is a 250-25 record in that class. If people want more bang for their buck by shooting more at each match then seperate classes delineated by caliber restriction is the way to do it. IMHO
 
dave,i get the feeling that you feel like you're being picked on here,i thought this forum was about people voicing their opinions,everyone is entitled to their own,it seems like you take all the discussions personally,most answers are on the topic being discussed and should be welcomed by all,don't think this is the place to air personnal differences,just my 2 cents worth
 
longrange223 said:
most answers are on the topic being discussed and should be welcomed by all,don't think this is the place to air personnal differences,just my 2 cents worth
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I agree with you completely. If you look at the posts, you'll see that all but one poster have engaged in discussion and aired their opinions without acting in appropriately. Unfortunately, one person has chosen to be offensive, and I will respond as I see appropriate. I appologize if you have found some of the exchanges as unpleasant as I have.

-Dave-
 
i think the topic has been well covered on here,maybe we should just let it go until the meeting in a couple of weeks & let it be decided there,it will be my first one & i'm anxious to see how it goes,sounds like it's going to be interesting to say the least
 
Quite often,

longrange223 said:
i think the topic has been well covered on here,maybe we should just let it go until the meeting in a couple of weeks & let it be decided there,it will be my first one & i'm anxious to see how it goes,sounds like it's going to be interesting to say the least
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most of the Bluster happens here. People need to be aware they can amend any of the new articles to be voted on. If a person has a definate direction they wish an article to go they might be better served by preparing their ammendment(s) before they come to the meeting. It is often difficult and not the best thing to offer impromptu amendments, from my experience.

That said, there is nothing wrong with this kind of discussion. Sticks and Stones, aye? Many people can handle the Heat in the Kitchen.
 
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Points to ponder

For consideration:

- Does the .30 have a 'scoring advantage' over a 6 of .032? Yes, it does.
But..you knew there was going to be a "but" ;)...the only way to use this advantage is for the .30 to shoot as accurately as the 6. The hard fact is that these .30's have been worked on and developed to the point where they do shoot as well as their 6mm counterparts. Hence, the scoring advantage we're talking about.

- "If I'd been shooting a .30, that would have been an X"..is a familiar comment heard at the wailing wall. Well, first of all the shooter making this comment would have had to make the exact same shot with a .30 for this to be a valid comment. And the .30's aren't exactly w/o their own set of issues as compared to the 6's...lots of recoil, the need to take more time to reaim, etc. This is especially true when you're working with one of these LV 30's, believe me. ;)

- The .032 'advantage' of the .30 over a 6 is ballyhooed as significant. But the .010 'advantage' of a 6 over a .22 is thought to not be worth consideration? :confused: A 30 gives a 13.5% 'advantage' over a 6. A 6mm has a 4% 'advantage' over a 22. So, the 13.5% is worthy of consideration but the 4% isn't? :confused: If a short 22PPC shoots as well as a 6PPC, then the same scenario applies to him as is being applied by the 6 shooters to the 30's, right? It's okay to go one direction but not the other? I don't know about other shoooters but I'll take a 4% advantage any day and twice on Sunday. Maybe three times on Sunday. :D Might be a pun there.;)

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not 'anti' this cartridge or 'pro' this cartridge. We're simply playing the game by the rules set forth by the IBS. And the NBRSA for their Hunter guns. No more, no less. And if the rules are changed at some point to use a 'worst edge' or 'center-to-center scoring system, that's cool. I'll simply reevaluate what I need to use to be competitive and move on to that. Simple, no fuss, no muss. :) Pass the barrels and bullets, please. Burp. :D

Ill make a simple analogy to something a lot of us can relate to...certainly my pals David Apple, Dave Short and myself can...and that's Drag Racing. The rules for NHRA Pro Stock call for a minimum weight of 2350 lbs and a max. engine size of 500 inches. Now....if you go to the line with a 432" motor (13.5% less than the 500's)....is NHRA supposed to change the rules because you chose to use that size motor?

As I said before, at the heart of this is nothing less than the changing of the entire Score game as it's currently contested.

Stay warm. -Al
 
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Pete Wass said:
The 30 BR Graveyard sign and all that went along with that?
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Pete, I remember it well.:)

Randy Robinett and I traveled together to the IBS Score Nationals in Mainville, Pa. in 2003. The first thing that greeted us upon our arrival at the range was a sign taped to the blue porta-pottie that said 30BR Graveyard. :D

It was hilarious! :D We laughed our azzes off...I took pictures of Randy standing by the sign, entering the cloistered enclave of the secret 'loading room', etc, etc. In short, it was a real hoot and everyone joined in on the good natured funnin' and ribbin'. :):D And nobody enjoyed the fun more than Randy.

Mainville '03 remains as one of the most fun events I've ever been to.
 
It first appeared

Al Nyhus said:
Pete, I remember it well.:)

Randy Robinett and I traveled together to the IBS Score Nationals in Mainville, Pa. in 2003. The first thing that greeted us upon our arrival at the range was a sign taped to the blue porta-pottie that said 30BR Graveyard. :D

It was hilarious! :D We laughed our azzes off...I took pictures of Randy standing by the sign, entering the cloistered enclave of the secret 'loading room', etc, etc. In short, it was a real hoot and everyone joined in on the good natured funnin' and ribbin'. :):D And nobody enjoyed the fun more than Randy.

Mainville '03 remains as one of the most fun events I've ever been to.
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at Thurmont @ the Bud, as I recall. I missed that Mainville event; wedding or some nonsense like that I think.
 
If a contestant was allowed to enter 3 guns, but had to designate
which was to be the record and the others for drill. Wouldn't that
be a night mare for Referee's and range master. I have 2 guns that
are absolute twins. This was done to eliminate psycological bias
to a particular gun, but It could be done to lean hard on such a rule.
 
No it wouldn't be a nightmare all you have to do is tell them at registration and they would mark it and they would mark them through out the match
 
Can you shoot more than 1 gun in group? Sorry I think it is silly to shoot multipule guns of the same class in 1 match. Different classes no problem same class no way
 
Mrl

I scanned the NBRSA Rule Book, and could not find any reference to a shooter entering the same class twice.

I suppose if you came pre-loaded, and there was two relays, and you were lucky enough to draw different relays, you could, in theory, enter the same class twice. Probably with the same Rifle. Hell, if someone wants to win that bad..........

Geez, is this getting stupid??...........jackie
 
Al...

Al Nyhus said:
Pete, I remember it well.:)

Randy Robinett and I traveled together to the IBS Score Nationals in Mainville, Pa. in 2003. The first thing that greeted us upon our arrival at the range was a sign taped to the blue porta-pottie that said 30BR Graveyard. :D

It was hilarious! :D We laughed our azzes off...I took pictures of Randy standing by the sign, entering the cloistered enclave of the secret 'loading room', etc, etc. In short, it was a real hoot and everyone joined in on the good natured funnin' and ribbin'. :):D And nobody enjoyed the fun more than Randy.

Mainville '03 remains as one of the most fun events I've ever been to.
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one of us re-worded one of the signs on the outhouse to 30BR Un-loading Room!! That same sign, like Pete says, was at the Bud same year. The .30's took 3 of the top 5 places as I recollect!! --Greg
 
Does anyone care if a shooter enters two guns and places 19th & 31st?
 
AVanGorder

No no one is concerned if someone shoots 19th and 31st because the most places awarded is 20 places. Ending up in 31st place does not take any placements away from anyone so nobody cares. By shooting two guns, a person can play both offense and defense. They get two chances at placements which betters their odds (offense) but they can also keep someone from earning a placement (defend), therefore they can widen a margin in both directions; more for them, less for others. The arguments that I heard didn't begrudge anyone trying to have multiple chances at winning a spot, they were about taking spots away from others with the 2nd placements. Randy J.
 
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