Clarification of new IBS Proposal SC#4

Speaking as a match director and the guy who's responsible for the $$, I couldn't care less if someone wants to shoot two guns. It's more $$ for the club.

The way I see it, you pays your $$ and you takes your chances. If a fella wants to drive all night, set up two guns, compete in both relays and do well in both, in my book he's earned it and he deserves it. I sure can't work that hard. If he's good enough to win two places then that's fine too. I wish I could shoot one gun that well.

Rick
 
Greyfox said:
Speaking as a match director and the guy who's responsible for the $$, I couldn't care less if someone wants to shoot two guns. It's more $$ for the club.

The way I see it, you pays your $$ and you takes your chances. If a fella wants to drive all night, set up two guns, compete in both relays and do well in both, in my book he's earned it and he deserves it. I sure can't work that hard. If he's good enough to win two places then that's fine too. I wish I could shoot one gun that well.

Rick
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Very good points
 
Well people that shoot one gun that get cheated out of points dont think it's good points and when new people find out about the way it works they might not think so and might not like the odds
 
Donnie Nash said:
Well people that shoot one gun that get cheated out of points dont think it's good points and when new people find out about the way it works they might not think so and might not like the odds
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Been there, done that. When I lost to the guy that got first and second, I knew I lost. No body cheated. If the same guy can beat me with two different guns then he is one fine shooter. Good for him or her!
 
AVanGorder said:
Been there, done that. When I lost to the guy that got first and second, I knew I lost. No body cheated. If the same guy can beat me with two different guns then he is one fine shooter. Good for him or her!
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If you were one that shot one gun you might feel the same way we do shoot one gun and do the best you can on one shot instead of trying to have a mulligan!
 
Donnie,
The only problem I have with what you are saying is, that you say you were cheated. The people who shoot two rifles are playing by the current rules. They aren't cheating, they are taking advantage of the rules that are in place. If the rules are changed to allow only one gun, fine.

Personally, I see no difference in one person, shooting two guns and beating me twice as opposed to two people shooting two guns and beating me twice. Either way, I end up behind. The answer, to me, is become a better shooter. Shoot all X's and you won't have any problems.

Rick
 
Let's Not Forget

When the subject of Score vs Group comes up, the group shooters will usually say that, when it is all said and done, it takes a higher level of precision to shoot group.
The Score Shooters comeback has always been, "yeh, but every first shot in your group is a free shot. We have to get it right right out of the gate". They are correct. As they say, once you drop a point, it is there for eternity. Not even God almighty can change a "9" into a "10".

So,when you allow a shooter to, by all accounts, have a "second chance", you are removing one of the aspects of score shooting that makes it extremely difficult.

What ever the rules are, we are bound to obey them. As has been said, it is not "cheating" when a shooter is complying with the rules that are in place.

But my opinion is this. Score Shooting, especially Varmint for Score, has evolved into a discipline that requires the shooter to be on his game from the first target, to the very last. The fact is, you simply cannot make many mistakes. The simple act of requiring a shooter to declare which Rifle will be his "official Rifle of Record" does nothing to take away the other reasons for shooting two Rifles, that being, garnering more info, etc.

Don't cheapen the accomplishments by allowing practices that remove this very unique aspect of the game........jackie
 
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Jackie

Thats what I been trying to say if they want to shoot ten guns I could care less but only one should count for points (which it does) or placement and awards like I said before I want to see how many people will shoot two guns if they make this the rules I may be wrong but I don't think it will be many.
 
Greyfox said:
Donnie,
The only problem I have with what you are saying is, that you say you were cheated. The people who shoot two rifles are playing by the current rules. They aren't cheating, they are taking advantage of the rules that are in place. If the rules are changed to allow only one gun, fine.

Personally, I see no difference in one person, shooting two guns and beating me twice as opposed to two people shooting two guns and beating me twice. Either way, I end up behind. The answer, to me, is become a better shooter. Shoot all X's and you won't have any problems.

Rick
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Rick
That is your opinion and you are intitled to it but for everyone thats shoots one gun you show me one that agrees with you I'll show you three that doesn't, not trying to stir up anything stating my opinion and the opinion of many others as far as shooting all x's wish I could but like I said you shouldn't have a second chance to beat everyone if you can't do it on the first try maybe next time.
 
Adrian

AVanGorder said:
Been there, done that. When I lost to the guy that got first and second, I knew I lost. No body cheated. If the same guy can beat me with two different guns then he is one fine shooter. Good for him or her!
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If you shot one gun you wouldn't feel the same you only say that because you shoot two guns if you have a chance
 
After great discussion at the IBS meeting today, the rule has been amended.
 
Donnie Nash said:
Rick
That is your opinion and you are intitled to it but for everyone thats shoots one gun you show me one that agrees with you I'll show you three that doesn't, not trying to stir up anything stating my opinion and the opinion of many others as far as shooting all x's wish I could but like I said you shouldn't have a second chance to beat everyone if you can't do it on the first try maybe next time.
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Donnie,
I honestly don't care one way or the other. I've been shooting 5 years at one range and have been the match director for one year at another. During that time we have had quite a few participants shoot two guns. I have not heard a single complaint at either range at any time.

It sounds like the IBS has made a change. Let's hope it satisfies your frustration.

Rick
 
Greyfox said:
Donnie,
I honestly don't care one way or the other. I've been shooting 5 years at one range and have been the match director for one year at another. During that time we have had quite a few participants shoot two guns. I have not heard a single complaint at either range at any time.

It sounds like the IBS has made a change. Let's hope it satisfies your frustration.

Rick
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At one range is the optium statement and if you don't care why are you so quick to make a statement if you don't care, I'd not put myself in the mix and as far as frustration there is none but it's the opinion of myself and a number of my friends, Oh by the way anyone can be a match director I been one myself and know people that have been also but if you are not worried about points it doesn't matter!
 
Donnie Nash said:
At one range is the optium statement and if you don't care why are you so quick to make a statement if you don't care, I'd not put myself in the mix and as far as frustration there is none but it's the opinion of myself and a number of my friends, Oh by the way anyone can be a match director I been one myself and know people that have been also but if you are not worried about points it doesn't matter!
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It's hard to tell your point without proper spelling and punctuation.

I am not a match director, but I do have an opinion on the subject of two guns. I can see that both sides have legitimate arguments. Shooting two guns would certainly have it's own challenges and advantages. I don't feel so strongly, one way or the other, to say much more than I have about it. If it takes two guns, I'll have two guns. If not, I'll simply shoot my gun and be happy, but I'll be happy either way. --Mike Ezell
 
Donnie Nash said:
At one range is the optium statement and if you don't care why are you so quick to make a statement if you don't care, I'd not put myself in the mix and as far as frustration there is none but it's the opinion of myself and a number of my friends, Oh by the way anyone can be a match director I been one myself and know people that have been also but if you are not worried about points it doesn't matter!
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Sir,
The purpose of this forum is to share information and voice opinions. If you look at the length of this thread, I don't see how you can say I am "quick" to put myself in the mix as my comments are near the end. I am merely sharing my opinion just as you have shared yours and possibly those of your friends.

I only mention directing matches because it give one an opportunity to hear complaints. It certainly doesn't make me any more important than you or anyone else.

And no, I'm not all that concerned about points. If my shooting skills are better than those of my fellow competitors the points will take care of themselves. It seems clear that you feel you have been somehow violated by those who have taken advantage of the current rules. The rules are there for everybody. If you don't like them, you may try and influence change or you can choose not to participate.

As I said above, it is my hope that the changes will satisfy you. However, I suspect that unless your shooting improves you will still find yourself low in the point standings. Rule changes won't improve your shooting. It will just mean there are more different people ahead of you in the standings. Shoot all x's and you won't have that problem.

Rick
 
Donnie Nash said:
At one range is the optium statement and if you don't care why are you so quick to make a statement if you don't care, I'd not put myself in the mix and as far as frustration there is none but it's the opinion of myself and a number of my friends, Oh by the way anyone can be a match director I been one myself and know people that have been also but if you are not worried about points it doesn't matter!
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Donnie,
Just how many IBS ranges and matches do you shoot? And at which IBS match and which IBS range did you serve as match director? I just went through quite a few VFS match results and could only find your name at one range and only two matches last season. While it's very possible I missed a few or possibly you shoot some other discipline, it seems that you don't really participate all that much. I'll stand by my earlier post, if your shooting improves, so will your points. It's not about what other people do, it's about what you do. If you can outshoot the other competitors, it really doesn't matter how many rifles they enter.

Rick

Rick
 
Greyfox said:
Sir,
The purpose of this forum is to share information and voice opinions. If you look at the length of this thread, I don't see how you can say I am "quick" to put myself in the mix as my comments are near the end. I am merely sharing my opinion just as you have shared yours and possibly those of your friends.

I only mention directing matches because it give one an opportunity to hear complaints. It certainly doesn't make me any more important than you or anyone else.

And no, I'm not all that concerned about points. If my shooting skills are better than those of my fellow competitors the points will take care of themselves. It seems clear that you feel you have been somehow violated by those who have taken advantage of the current rules. The rules are there for everybody. If you don't like them, you may try and influence change or you can choose not to participate.

As I said above, it is my hope that the changes will satisfy you. However, I suspect that unless your shooting improves you will still find yourself low in the point standings. Rule changes won't improve your shooting. It will just mean there are more different people ahead of you in the standings. Shoot all x's and you won't have that problem.

Rick
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If it does not concern you why do you keep posting on something that is of no concern to you, Oh guess you have no other person to spout off to but as far as my shooting from the way you talk I believe it will stand up to yours hope you have a good day maybe tomarrow won't be bad for you either:cool:
 
Greyfox said:
Donnie,
Just how many IBS ranges and matches do you shoot? And at which IBS match and which IBS range did you serve as match director? I just went through quite a few VFS match results and could only find your name at one range and only two matches last season. While it's very possible I missed a few or possibly you shoot some other discipline, it seems that you don't really participate all that much. I'll stand by my earlier post, if your shooting improves, so will your points. It's not about what other people do, it's about what you do. If you can outshoot the other competitors, it really doesn't matter how many rifles they enter.

Rick

Rick
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What are you talking about I might not have shoot but at one match last year but had other things to take care of as far as work but as far as I know you haven't much to talk about this is a new year let the rest of the world know where you shoot so we can see how good you aren't!
 
The agenda item was amended to disallow the shooting of multiple guns of the same class. You can still shoot a LVS gun and a HVS gun as they are different classes. You cannot shoot 2 HVS, 2 LVS, 2 HTR, or 2 VH in the same match...However, there is a caveat. If a competitor wishes to shoot more than one HVS rifle, he can do so by not registering the 2nd rifle. It is up to the hosting club if they will allow this practice. This has always been an option to competitors. The unregistered rifle cannot be scored along with the registered rifles' on the line that day, and obviously doesn't qualify for SOY or PR points.

Hal
 
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