World Individual Postal - 27th & 31st March 2013

Brian_K said:
The scoring diagram you show reference to was first drawn up by a member of the UKBR22 and is currently still shown in their rules. The same diagram is also shown in the rules of the ERABSF & WRABF.

As far as the IBPM postal matches are concerned, we referred to the use of the NSRA gauge, which as you say is .22 to .222. That is the gauge which is used in the marking of all cards within the UK and hopefully the rest of the world.

Brian
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I think that as a member of the aforementioned federations we will persist in using the .224 gauge, exept for when we shoot postals that require the use of .222. But that is only us in the capitol, how the rest of the country will do I do not know.

Jörgen
SLJSF
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Where to buy?

Anybody know where one can buy both sizes required (.222 and .224)? Most shops doesn't state more than .22 and that doesn't help me and I would like to use only one shop.
 
gauge

buggsson said:
I think that as a member of the aforementioned federations we will persist in using the .224 gauge, exept for when we shoot postals that require the use of .222. But that is only us in the capitol, how the rest of the country will do I do not know.

Jörgen
SLJSF
Stockholm, Sweden
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I.S.S.F. Rulebook2013 stated:

6.3.5.3 Small bore Rifle and Pistol 5.6 mm (.22”)
Measuring edge diameter: 5.60 mm (+0.05/ -0.00 mm)
Edge thickness: 0.50 mm approximately
Spindle diameter: 5.00 mm (+0.05 mm)
Spindle length: 10 mm to 15 mm
To be used for: All events using 5.6 mm ammunition

I don't see which other gauges should be used by the scorers... :confused:
 
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Carlo Caricato said:
I.S.S.F. Rulebook2013 stated:

6.3.5.3 Small bore Rifle and Pistol 5.6 mm (.22”)
Measuring edge diameter: 5.60 mm (+0.05/ -0.00 mm)
Edge thickness: 0.50 mm approximately
Spindle diameter: 5.00 mm (+0.05 mm)
Spindle length: 10 mm to 15 mm
To be used for: All events using 5.6 mm ammunition

I don't see which other gauges should be used by the scorers... :confused:
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As stated above, there are two standards, .22 + 0.002 = max .222" used by for example UKBR22, and there is .224" used by for example ERABSF, and if you want to participate in these two bodies competitions, you will need the two gauges noted in the line above. Maybe not a huge difference, but still a difference.
 
buggsson said:
there are two standards, .22 + 0.002 = max .222" used by for example UKBR22, and there is .224" used by for example ERABSF, and if you want to participate in these two bodies competitions, you will need the two gauges noted in the line above. .
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hello jorgen:

I have checked all the rules erabsf from 2007 up to the last one (2013). all point out the gauge caliber .22 as well. can you tell us where did you found different sizes ( i.e. ,224)?
 
.224

I believe the size of .22 Rimfire bullets is actually .224, ergo why a correct sized scoring plug would measure .224. Perhaps pellets measure .22 or .222 or whatever, I do not know. My opinion is that if we are to use the same plug that the Rimfire world uses, it should be the same size as a Rimfire bullet. I also think it would be possible for the World to buy USBR scoring plugs.
 
Inverters

Dave Shattuck said:
I agree with most of what Pete is saying, especially the part about being able to under-light the target when scoring. I would take issue with requiring the use of a light box though instead of simply saying either that or a flashlight for 2 reasons: not all ranges (like Pinnacle Mountain) have power out at the range, and the cost.

As for the scoring plug: no doubt we need a common source for acquiring them and should require that all ranges have that particular one available at all sanctioned matches for the sake of uniformity from one range to the next no matter the country. But, I do have issue with Pete not wanting to allow for the use of additional magnification whether it be a store-bought magnifying glass, a sleeve type magnifier such as the ARA uses, or any other device as there are just some cases where the scorer needs a little more magnification to aid in their accuracy in their final decision. And, the older I get, the more I realize how much I do appreciate being able to take that closer look.

Dave
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Hi Dave,

I have been using a $12. WalMart inverter plugged into the power source plug in my minivan for a couple of summers. I can run the lights in a lighting box, run the scoring computer all day to printing results and certificates for the top three in each class and not notice any loss in my vehicle's battery. I simply use cheapo extension cords to gain whatever length I need the power to go to. Light boxes make scoring SOOO much easier. Also, I run all of those on a table just outside my vehicle.

The problem with using anything beyond what a scoring plug has on it is uniformity. As a for instance; IBS uses a reticule scoring device that has a magnifier attached. Written directions for it's use come with the unit. Those directions say the unit is to be used with the scorer's eye positioned 1 inch away from the magnifier, looking straight down. Because we are a self-policing organizations, we depend on anyone and everyone, who will do so, to be referees. The question comes, does everyone know how to read scoring devices properly? In my way of thinking, a scoring device should be used in one way and one way only and the less complicated it is, the easier it is for all who use it to obtain the same result. This is why I think the USBR plug is so good, when used by itself. All it needs is a set of uniform directions. I has been my observation that some folks will look through such devices at various angles, which is not the intent of a scoring device. The farther away from the scoring device one gets, the easier it is to see an incorrect reading.

Pete
 
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.224

Pete Wass said:
I believe the size of .22 Rimfire bullets is actually .224, ergo why a correct sized scoring plug would measure .224. .
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hello pete,
certainly. the bullet can be a bit oversized ( i.e. RWS) but if the barrel is drilled in caliber .22 then the bullet will go out of the muzzle with the same caliber of the barrel. exactly. this is valid for rim and air rifle don't you think?
please tell me who, around the world, drill his barrels in .224...
cheers
carlo
 
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Carlo Caricato said:
hello jorgen:

I have checked all the rules erabsf from 2007 up to the last one (2013). all point out the gauge caliber .22 as well. can you tell us where did you found different sizes ( i.e. ,224)?
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In their rules, they have an image on page 11 where you are told how to interpret a score with a gauge, and it states cal. .22 as you say, but it also says that the rim is .224 inch. I think they should be a bit more clear about this condition than mentioning it in small print in an image. Secondly, the chairman of ERABSF told me in another forum that the correct size is .224 inch.
 
This thread and Brians World Postal has nothing to do with the WRABF, thus we have not responded, we will be advising our own delegates in due course what we think about guages and the way we will move forward, thank you.
 
Come On People lets just help each other out,

Bill Collaros said:
This thread and Brians World Postal has nothing to do with the WRABF, thus we have not responded, we will be advising our own delegates in due course what we think about guages and the way we will move forward, thank you.
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Surely we can all just use the same equipment and this will help all of us in whatever organisation we belong to, and help a great sport move forward. Alternatively
I can fire myself from the above cannon and make an even bigger hole.:eek:IMG_1916.jpg
 
After contacting several of the "other" organizations I have now changed my vote back to requiring a .224" plug be used. The logic behind one group in particular who shoots both .22 air and rimfire, a group which I happen to also participate in, is that by using a .224" plug they have already "standardizing" the plug for all targets being shot, no matter whether air or rimfire. Makes perfect sense to me ...now. Sometimes I can either be a bit slow, or jump in half-cocked without having done all of my homework.

Sorry for any confusion on my part.

Dave Shattuck
 
Fair enough Dave, I'm not trying to sway anybody one way or another. Uniformity in the sport is all I'm interested in.

There are no more IBPM matches planned for a while, so we'll just wait to see how it pans out.

I'll put you down as a ".224" :)

Brian
 
Brian_K said:
Fair enough Dave, I'm not trying to sway anybody one way or another. Uniformity in the sport is all I'm interested in.

There are no more IBPM matches planned for a while, so we'll just wait to see how it pans out.

I'll put you down as a ".224" :)

Brian
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I promote .308 gauge to score targets
 
Harry Fuller said:
Brian there seems a discrepancy in the scoring rules/ procedure relating to the scoring gauge which could disadvantage some shooters and advantage others depending upon how they read the rules pertaining to the scoring gauge.

The rules indicate that a .22 inch scoring gauge, as obtainable from NSRA, should be used on all close calls. But in the scoring rules below this is defined as a 0.224 inch gauge, see below paragraph 1.

http://www.benchpostal.com/wpimages/wp210bcb7d_05_06.jpg

The NSRA rules, which are apparently being followed in respect of the scoring gauge, indicate the smallbore gauge to be smaller than 0.224 inch at 0.22 +0.002 inch/ - 0.00 inch, which makes the gauge 0.22 to 0.222 inch.

THE NATIONAL SMALL-BORE
RIFLE ASSOCIATION
"Appendix B.
SMALL BORE RIFLE AND PISTOL 5.6 mm (.22 in)
Measuring edge diameter: 5.60 mm (+ 0.05/- 0.00 mm) (.22 in + 0.002 in - 0.00 in)".

My question is: In order to ensure all shooters use the same gauge; is it to be the .22 to .222 inch gauge of the NSRA; or is it to be a nominal .224 inch gauge as indicated on the scoring rules' target above, and as shown in the Benchrest International Postal Matches page over the logo of the UK Association of Rimfire and Air Rifle Benchrest Shooting? (There are 0.224 inch gauges used in some centrefire matches).

If there are different gauges being used in these competition then on these particular targets, at this high level of shooting, there may be a gain or loss of perhaps up to 10 or more points and numerous X's in the aggregates. ............ Best regards, Harry.
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As the one who started this scoring gauge discussion which has apparently highlighted some anomalies, I would like to make these points:

It had appeared to me that there may have been more than one sized scoring gauge being used across the world in the various competitions.

The use of different gauges does result in an unequal playing field. The extent of inequality is, I believe, roughly half the width of a scoring line and is therefore significant.
Because of the above, I feel that only one sized gauge should be used to simplify procedures and ensure fairness and promote a relaxed competition environment.

In any organization which caters for both air rifle and rimfire, the gauge used should probably be the same one used for both. This simplifies purchasing and scoring logistics and avoids accidental use of the wrong gauge. It also makes sense for shooters who choose to shoot in more than one organization or discipline.

The size of gauge should be at least equal to, or larger than, the largest rifle groove diameter that may be used. Because, as I understand it, rimfire barrel groove diameters do run to larger than .22" but not larger than 0.224", then a single gauge of 0.224" would meet all possible eventualities.

Exclusivity seems always to restrict rather than expand human endeavour. Therefore, in my opinion, the choice of a monopoly gauge manufacturer is a bad idea. The chosen gauge size should probably be one made and supplied internationally by more than one manufacturer and readily available worldwide.

I write this as opinion and without any authority within any shooting organization. I have no business connections relating to the shooting sports. But I am deeply interested in precision shooting and that which underpins it. ... Please disregard any of the above which you feel to be irrelevant to the postal competition endorsed in this thread ........... Best regards to all who contribute here. ... Harry.
 
Harry,

Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thank you,

Dave Shattuck
 
Hi Harry, I fully agree with you, it's all your fault :D

I think the points you have made for using the .224" gauge are valid. Initially I had shown favour to the .22 Gehmann gauge, that being the standard used in the UK and Europe, but I can see the 224" can cover all eventualities.

I can only speak for the IBPM, but I will shortly be amending the rules to show the above change.

Brian
 
Harry,

Thanks now I will not have to fire myself out of a cannon because what you said makes perfect sense.
 
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