Wind thingie......

A great shooting rifle does wonders for one's confidence. Pete, in my case, you are right. I was a better shooter than I thought I was. My eyes were opened the first time I shot a real killer rifle. It really made this game seem (dare I say) easy. There are a lot of shooters that think they have a rifle that can win, who are doubting their ability, their ammo, their rest etc. etc. etc. If they ever have the opportunity to shoot a real, properly tuned, killer rifle, their eyes will be opened as well. Shooters who in the past have had real killer rifles/barrels, and have since wore them out, know just how hard it is to catch lightning in a bottle twice. (That's the expensive, hard to find ticket Wilber was talking about.) The absolute best gunsmiths will produce more killer rifles then your run-of-the-mill gunsmiths, but even the best can't hit it out of the park every time, because of the variability of the components. Sometime some of us shooters think we know more about these components then the people who put them together for us. When I stopped specifying my components and started to leave it up to my gunsmith to tell me what was working, the odds for me getting a great rifle/barrel went up considerably.

A great shooting rifle is a great teacher, because now I know a miss was my fault and my fault only. My mistake is something I can correct. A miss due to a bad barrel, chamber, crown, action with poor ignition etc. will teach you nothing. Especially if you think that the rifle can't be at fault. And who of us wants to admit that we just spent $$$$$$ on an a poor or average performing rifle? But I don't want to leave you with the impression that you can just buy a win either. I think some of us are our own worse enemies. How many of us had a killer rifle but didn't know it because of our inexperience/failings, or, ruined it with some crazy idea about how to best clean it? How many of us shy away from practicing on a real windy day cause we would rather lull ourselves into a false sense of our ability by practicing only on nice calm days? It is the smart beginner shooter in this game that listens more then talks. If you have a great local shooter, have them mentor you, let them shoot your equipment and ask them to give you an honest evaluation. Your job is to listen without getting offended. Those that can handle that will be well on their way.

ps It also helps to have a good BS detector 'cause their sure is a lot of it out there.
 
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Regarding Mentors:

All the great athlets have a coach, all of them, watching to see when bad habbits creep in, as they very often do. I have been saying for a few months now that all of us could benefit from a coach; someone who knows our game and whom we trust.

I know in my case, I have some bad bench habbits. When I can keep them in check, I sometimes shoot fairly well but for the past couple of years I have struggled. If I talk to myself often enough and pay attention to what I am doing I can avoid the bad habbits but it is difficult to see the bad by one's self.
 
Bill B said:
A great shooting rifle does wonders for one's confidence. Pete, in my case, you are right. I was a better shooter than I thought I was. My eyes were opened the first time I shot a real killer rifle. It really made this game seem (dare I say) easy. There are a lot of shooters that think they have a rifle that can win, who are doubting their ability, their ammo, their rest etc. etc. etc. If they ever have the opportunity to shoot a real, properly tuned, killer rifle, their eyes will be opened as well. Shooters who in the past have had real killer rifles/barrels, and have since wore them out, know just how hard it is to catch lightening in a bottle twice. (That's the expensive, hard to find ticket Wilber was talking about.) The absolute best gunsmiths will produce more killer rifles then your run-of-the-mill gunsmiths, but even the best can't hit it out of the park every time, because of the variability of the components. Sometime some of us shooters think we know more about these components then the people who put them together for us. When I stopped specifying my components and started to leave it up to my gunsmith to tell me what was working, the odds for me getting a great rifle/barrel went up considerably.

A great shooting rifle is a great teacher, because now I know a miss was my fault and my fault only. My mistake is something I can correct. A miss due to a bad barrel, chamber, crown, action with poor ignition etc. will teach you nothing. Especially if you think that the rifle can't be at fault. And who of us wants to admit that we just spent $$$$$$ on an a poor or average performing rifle? But I don't want to leave you with the impression that you can just buy a win either. I think some of us are our own worse enemies. How many of us had a killer rifle but didn't know it because of our inexperience/failings, or, ruined it with some crazy idea about how to best clean it? How many of us shy away from practicing on a real windy day cause we would rather lull ourselves into a false sense of our ability by practicing only on nice calm days? It is the smart beginner shooter in this game that listens more then talks. If you have a great local shooter, have them mentor you, let them shoot your equipment and ask them to give you an honest evaluation. Your job is to listen without getting offended. Those that can handle that will be well on their way.

ps It also helps to have a good BS detector 'cause their sure is a lot of it out there.
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Thank you Bill, a very informative post!~

It was at least a year, like pulling teeth to finally get a proper answer, i appreciate it. I can only know what you guys have tought me. I consider it a bit unfair to get snide remarks to something i'm trying to learn about. It seems a lot of members have their pat answeres and forget the obvious that a rookie cannot know......... joe
 
JGEE,
Get some wind flags. Listen to what these folks have told you...esp. Bill B, Joe Friedrich, Wilbur, and I don't want to leave anyone out but cannot list more it's too taxing to go back and forth up and down the thread. Get your flags and shoot your gun (watching those flags closely) using the wind rose as an "approximate" guide only and as Bill B has said "trust your sighters. When you've done it enough to see that the bullet behaves similar to the chart....then you've passed a point that will tell you that using nothing was ludicrous. Get some flags. Nothing wrong with any flags I see on Classifieds to use. You will be enlightened and appreciate all the info that these guys have been giving. Best of luck!

John M. Carper
 
buzzard said:
bad habits, what might those habits be,so i can avoid them myself, thanks
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Not following through each shot, Touching one's stock with one's arm, pulling it toward themselves, Jerking the trigger, Looking to see where the shot went before one jerks the trigger, for a few - - - - - -
 
My apologies

I meant no disrespect.

I understood your question to be how far a bullet will move (in bullet holes) in a given wind. You can look that info up in a ballistic table and run with it if you believe all rifles are equal. Alternatively, you can get real time information by shooting a sighter.

And...you are correct that my mind is made on the subject. At any match, sixty percent of the rifles don't stand a chance and all the knowledge and skill in the world won't help a bit.
 
I didn't ask the question for me, i have shot enough targets i already know the answer. I also figured out it is a waste of time thinking you have a chance of winning or learning the wind with an inferior rifle.. If you can't conquer the old hometown drag strip in Porter Texas -no need to venture to the Nations at Indy ..........

I asked for the new shooter that will land on this page shortly... You guys left this information out when i started Rimfire Benchrest...... joe...
thanks and MERRY CHRISTMAS !!
 
I am a kid when it comes to the amount of shooting and competing most of you fellows have done. I get the shoot sighters and trust them. It took me a while to trust them and at times I still wonder if I can trust them. You fellows are fortunate enough that you have the numbers of shooters and the mentors at hand to help the new guy.

I understand what Joe is trying to say in wanting to know a value that the wind will move the bullet. I will talk the wind rose a lot. Why? I use it as a learning tool to try and train my brain that in theory if the wind is from a said direction I need to hold here to move the bullet to where I want. Now I do understand that it is theory and ones rifle will dictate the truth with the sighters. I think for those of us who do not have the chance to shoot LOTS, or the financial backing to buy a 1/2 dozen cases of a GREAT lot of ammo the simple things like trying to train our brains helps to some degree.

Wilbur and many talk about KILLER rifles. I do believe they are out there but again it may be financial for most. I here mention of having 4-6 rifles and this one shoots in the wind and this one does not but the one that does not shoots great in the calm. You guys are lucky to be able to have the option of trying so many rifles.

Anyways I fully UNDERSTAND what Joe is trying to find out. I am one who believes that until you have confidence in your table etiquette that it was not your error, then one can move on to beginning to realize whether or not the rifle is a KILLER. Then again you may have got lucky and just have the killer barrel that not mattter what you throw down it or what is thrown at you with the wind it responds.

Just my thoughts. Thanks Joe for thinking about the new guy/gal and trying to help out.

Calvin
 
Jim & Joe:
They haven't shot ARA at Madisonville in over two years. The closest range for Joe in mostlikely Ennis. Of cource, Dietzville is just a bit over 2000 miles. Sort of like a stones throw for Joe.
 
OK, here's the deal

You can believe what you want as always.

That said, I'm trying to tell "new shooters" that learning how far the bullet moves in wind and bench technique and WHATEVER has little to do with successful benchrest shooting. Bench technique is what we use to explain that stupid shot that flew out of our rifles on target 12, 18 and 23. To infer that such has anything to do with consistent placement, either high or low, is misleading to a "new" guy. That you can screw on a tuner and find a setting to improve your placement is misleading to a large extent. All this stuff adds to the confusion and frustration rather than reduce it. The genuine problem at hand is how to get your hands on a rifle that is competitive and I don't have that solution. All I know is that you have to get one to be competitive. "Competitive" being defined as having a "snowball's chance in hell" of winning. I have absolutely no interest in 10th place and very little in 2nd place - except that enough 2nd places will result in winning the overall.

Please feel free to consult successful competitors concerning this matter.

Folks have tried for years to determine what causes a rifle to score better than a seemingly identical rifle. Harold Vaughn and Bill Calfee come to mind. Bill is credited to have created an unsurpassed percentage of winners but the "every rifle" grail remains at reach. Harold wrote a book "Rifle Accuracy Facts" and I challenge anyone to find a fact in the book. Implied therin, is the fact that there are no facts. Bottom line is that there are born winners, born losers, and all those in between as rifles are concerned. That realization is a major milestone in a successful benchrest career.
 
Great post Wilbur: For some unknown reason, this tune has been going over and over in my empty head. " The answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.
 
"Bottom line is that there are born winners, born losers, and all those in between as rifles are concerned. That realization is a major milestone in a successful benchrest career. "

Does this only apply to rifles or does it apply to shooters as well?
 
Tony

tonykharper said:
"Bottom line is that there are born winners, born losers, and all those in between as rifles are concerned. That realization is a major milestone in a successful benchrest career. "

Does this only apply to rifles or does it apply to shooters as well?
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A great rifle will go a long ways in making a person a great shooter. Nothing will make you a great shooter faster than a hummer barrel and some ammo to go with it. And the best thing about most hummer barrels is they aren't usually picky about ammo.
 
I am pretty lucky to shoot with some of the best shooters around every match I go to. Every week I shoot against Joe Besche, Brian Brandt and Glen Townley who I consider a master in the wind. Brian, Dennis Sallin and I started shooting together at the same time in 04 and came up with every wind chart and every gizmo we could come with hoping to get an edge and most of it has gone by the wayside. Three things I have found the most usefull.
1. Wind Flags obviously
2. Wind velocity indicators such as the Beggs Windprobe or we use some made by Joe Besche
3. These words of advice from Glen Townley. Instead of trying to figure out what the bullet is SUPPOSED to be doing, worry about what the bullet IS doing. (shoot sighters and trust them)

The rose chart and others are nice to have and maybe help you understand what is going on but try to make sense of that when your front flag is going one way, your second is pointed a different way and well, you get the point.

Charlie
 
Okay in regards to these KILLER rimfire rifles, is there or has anyone compiled stats as to what action has won the most or is it just a toss up????

Are there any KILLER rifles out there that are actively shot that are built on a Anschutz? or are they like ceterfire BR rifles built off of the major aftermarket ones?

So this is the easiest way for me to find this out. You all shoot rimfire BR, what would be the closest match or person to me that I would be able to go and see some of these killer rifles in action or even try one? Instead of me looking it up and asking where the shoots are I live in Brandon,Manitoba. I would love to maybe have the pleasure of trying one out.

Calvin
 
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