Wind thingie......

Joe, give it time. Reading Don's and Bill B. post indicate, they Know what their rifles are capable of from experience. I've never used a wind chart so I can't say otherwise. Give yourself some time, if the wind charts help then that's a plus. The best wind chart comes from experience JMHO.

Joe
 
Joe's right about figuring it out for yourself, no one is going to be able to tell you the correct answer. JGEE the chart is a good reference, and in a perfect world it's real close to being right.
Look up wind drift for a .22 lr match velocity cartridge. If a guy's not getting more that a few thousandths drift in a 5 mph wind at 50 yards, he's sighted in for that condition, and when the wind comes from the other side he's going to have to hang it way out there. Can't defy physics, even on the internet!!1
 
jGEE, you may be well aware of this. It's hard to say what you're trying to do by overlaying the two charts. If you're trying to prove they're consistent, you've done it. Note that they are very close to being exact opposites when overlaid. That's because one is telling where to hold, in theory, in a given wind to hit center. The other is telling you if you hold center that's will be the deflection of your bullet, in theory.
 
justathought said:
jGEE, you may be well aware of this. It's hard to say what you're trying to do by overlaying the two charts. If you're trying to prove they're consistent, you've done it. Note that they are very close to being exact opposites when overlaid. That's because one is telling where to hold, in theory, in a given wind to hit center. The other is telling you if you hold center that's will be the deflection of your bullet, in theory.
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You are correct mine is for point of aim, is it perfect no.You only have to think once, aim and shoot while the other you have to see where it's going to impact and adjust. Is it perfect no but it is a good guide to start with.
 
What i was working on.....

what do i tell the new guy about the wind in some language we might understand. What happens sometimes the experts take for granted the rookie knows more than he does.

We don't have a clue how far a bullet is blown and we can shoot with imperfect rifles till the cows come home and we still won't know.

is it the wind, the bbl, the rest. the bedding, the ammo.. ect... how we gonna know how far the wind moves the bullet. We need help.

I don't mind shooting till i figure out wind drift at all..... but...... i'm not past asking for a few clues.

My biggest problem in rimfire was what caused what.... i read every day to get wind flags but when your first starting out everything is a mystery.

I thought maybe if i could come up with some kind of gage or number for wind drift it might be helpful to the new guy. That's what this post is about for me.

When i first started in rimfire and read about the wind blowing the shot, the ammo would move the bullet 1/2 inch... i didn't have a clue if it was the wind or the ammo... i'm dumb -it took me a least a few cases of ammo to realize bad ammo cause a lot of problems.

Now if i could tell someone -if shooting on an average day, for me the wind up to 5 mph, expect the wind to push your bullet from 1/2 to a full bullet hole... watch a wind rose for hold over direction and get the wind direction from at least a couple of wind flags.

I read a lot of post that say -go to a match, use your wind flags but a lot of us have less than perfect guns, a rock would be more accurate...

i though if some of you that know might add to the main thing were looking for.... give us distances the bullet is moved by the wind, doesn't matter if it is a guess -it would be a good guess...

in 2 years of trying to shoot for accuracy i don't think i have ever read those wind numbers

a rookie needs to know.......joe
 
Ok, here's the deal, sight in your rifle in a calm condition. Put out the wind those flags. Shoot a few barrel warmers/foulers. When the flags are all lined up the same direction, say showing a breeze from 3 oclock shoot a few sighters and see how much the bullet moves. Thats' pretty much how everybody else does it, is it not guys?
Joe, if you were sitting beside me in a match, shooting my rifle, I could pretty much tell you where to aim. But other than that, all bets are off.
 
Joe,

I started in 03 with a cmp 40x, no tuner, no one piece rest, no expensive ammo, no wind flags, just ribbon on some sticks, no internet help, no concrete benches, just a wooden bench. I used a 40.00 front pedestal with an over sized rear bag that i squeezed and moved for all my shots. I used Wolf Match 245.00 a case, bought 2 cases and sat my butt down and shot. At first i shot every condition, didn't understand how much the variations in the ribbons played a part, it just got more frustrating, that lasted for a couple days when finally had a calm morning and i realized i was shooting much better, and noticed the ribbons were pointing at 5'oclock, when they switched my shots were off, so i waited for that condition to return and didn't care if it took 45 minutes to shoot the card and learned something from that morning. I can go on, and hope you understand the point I'm making.

Joe
 
Joe,
Some very good info here on this thread. I use a wind rose attached to my rest as a reference, I use sighter shots to tell me whats actually happening. You will find that from range to range the same condition will act differently due to the configuration of the range. Example, trees, berms, buildings etc... being nearby. Shoot plenty of sighters, pay attention and have fun learning.
 
Probably just the way my scopes are set vs Jims: but I find that my hold for 1, 2, and 7 are quite different. We seem to agree on the other positions.
Joe if you have a shooting buddy,play a game of "Chase". One of you call the hold and both shoot at same bull with barely a delay between the two shots. For example hold at 5 o'clock at outer edge of 10 ring. A day of this can go a long way to helping understand how your combo performs.
 
I used that same wind rose this past year at my home range and sometimes it was near 90-95% correct it amazed me then other times with the same rifle it was all over the place? Now all of this was in warm weather and I am a new born to all of this and looking back there was something there I did not at to the equation- Mirage. So this will be something I work on this year I think it may be the number one reason many of my shots where out for no reason.

Theron




Mirage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaA mirage is a naturally occurring optical phenomenon in which light rays are bent to produce a displaced image of distant objects
 
jGee,

This can be a very frustrating game, especially as a beginner. Many of us in the NE here played around with this game for years, chasing our tails, never quite figuring it all out, until - - - - we started to obtain some real first class rifles (thanks Gordon). Now, we know our rifles are not the problem. With that knowledge we can properly evaluate ammo. Now, I'll just hold dead center, while watching the flags, and see what happens. I have an idea how great ammo should behave. Having the knowledge of how a great shooting rifle behaves also allows us to better evaluate barrels, using known great ammo. If you can get your hands on a great shooting rifle and some great ammo, your learning curve will be much shorter. With rifle of lesser quality, ammo that may or may not be good, and not being sure how to read the wind --- well, it can be a long frustrating road. A road I know well. Always, always, remember - - TRUST YOUR SIGHTERS.
 
Bill B said:
jGee,

This can be a very frustrating game, especially as a beginner. Many of us in the NE here played around with this game for years, chasing our tails, never quite figuring it all out, until - - - - we started to obtain some real first class rifles (thanks Gordon). Now, we know our rifles are not the problem. With that knowledge we can properly evaluate ammo. Now, I'll just hold dead center, while watching the flags, and see what happens. I have an idea how great ammo should behave. Having the knowledge of how a great shooting rifle behaves also allows us to better evaluate barrels, using known great ammo. If you can get your hands on a great shooting rifle and some great ammo, your learning curve will be much shorter. With rifle of lesser quality, ammo that may or may not be good, and not being sure how to read the wind --- well, it can be a long frustrating road. A road I know well. Always, always, remember - - TRUST YOUR SIGHTERS.
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The information in this post trumps any wind rose anyone can come up with.
 
I think Bill B said much more than folks read. Implied in his words is the very center of competitive benchrest shooting.

To address the shallow subject of reading the wind, shoot sighters and act accordingly. If you can't get the sighters to strike the target in a consistent manner read Bill B's post again and try to understand what he is telling you. I'm not sayin' that anybody is incapable of understanding but I am saying that some are on the train to nowhere - and that is entirely understandable considering the availability and price of tickets.
 
Ah Wilbur: I did not know you were such a sage. Well stated. I'll try to reinforce the point with me as an example. I have 4 "competitive" rifles, and one in the works, maybe two depending on how one turns out. They range from Sporter to heavy guns. As many of you know I'm a big fan of Remington 37's and enjoy shooting them. 2 of the above rifles are 37's, one reworked by Bill Myers and one with a set back factory barrel and Kenyon trigger. That said, the ONLY rifle I have complete confidence in is my sporter. It is a very good rifle. If I put a big scope on it I can hold my own almost anywhere, assuming I do my part. (I doubt my old eyes and unrefined bench techniques will allow me to often win at the sporter game) None of my other rifles are "killers". I may stay in the middle of the pack during a match, or fall behind but that is me, not the rifle. They are middle of the pack rifles at best. I am fortunate to have friends in this game who have allowed me to shoot "killer" rifles during practice. I am now at the point where I want to have a "killer" heavy gun. There is indeed a difference. I enjoy the game and am not so driven to be at the top that I'll stop having fun. But with a killer rifle who knows I might actually win one once in a while. I ain't gonna do it with what I have now, no matter how good they are. They are not "killers". I am learning from them tho and enjoy the company of other shooters even more than winning. bob Merry Christmas!
 
Wilbur said:
I think Bill B said much more than folks read. Implied in his words is the very center of competitive benchrest shooting.

To address the shallow subject of reading the wind, shoot sighters and act accordingly. If you can't get the sighters to strike the target in a consistent manner read Bill B's post again and try to understand what he is telling you. I'm not sayin' that anybody is incapable of understanding but I am saying that some are on the train to nowhere - and that is entirely understandable considering the availability and price of tickets.
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only one person understood what i was asking... everone else includeing wilber had their mind made up before they underswtood what i was saying.. Wilber you have a locked brain.. you don't need a ticket -wont's do any good, lol.... joe
 
Joe,
If your rifle and ammunition are not sufficiently accurate to shoot well under constant or calm conditions, you are wasting your time trying to attribute small bullet displacements to what the wind is doing. It is like someone making sighting corrections in very small increments based on one shot on a rifle that is only capable of a 2" group. Also, I am not aware of anyone that actually looks at flags, converts to MPH and then calculates bullet displacement and the direction of displacement. They learn what flag, and ribbon positions are worth, and hold accordingly, based on what sighters and experience dictate. Going through elaborate measurement, number assignment and charting will prove too lengthy a process. While you are figuring, the condition will change. What Wilbur, and others are trying to gently tell you is that without good enough tools, to a large degree, you are on mission impossible, like trying to practice golf hitting rocks with sticks. What rifle and ammo are you working with, and how big are your average five shot groups, shot under the best conditions? I should have prefaced this with the admission that I do not compete in rimfire, but I have friends that do, and we discuss equipment and shooting. I have an accurate centerfire rifle, and until I got one, I could not have learned about attribution of small bullet displacements to slight differences in what the flags were showing. It would have been like trying to measure to .001 with a yardstick.

Added Later: Wilbur has shot a lot of rimfire matches, at many ranges, over a long period of time, with good equipment. He is a fine fellow, with a good mind, that is not closed. Frankly, given the positive nature that is typical of your posts, I was surprised at your response to his. Perhaps he was telling you something that was true, that you did not want to hear. It is hard to know what to tell someone without knowing exactly what his situation is. That is why I asked the questions that I did, not so much for my information, but so that the experienced rimfire shooters can better judge what you need to hear.
 
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That is ROYALY confusing with the Superimpose. The USBR rose is showing the bullet impact point on the given wind where as the rose by Tuna is showing where to hold off to hit the 10 ring for the given wind direction. Hope it is not confusing you JGee??????

What the guys are saying in trusting your sighters is GOLDEN. Prior to trusting your sighters you have to have confidence in yourself, setup, and rifle. Then and only then I felt I could trust sighters. Now do I have a GREAT rifle? Not sure yet. Need a GREAT shooter to spend the day with to determine that.

Calvin
 
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Wind Flags and Probes, are nothing more than relative indicators. Somewhat like a torque wrench. Sighter's always provide the best information if I pay attention and pull the trigger when they are not lying to me..
 
CYanchycki said:
That is ROYALY confusing with the Superimpose. The USBR rose is showing the bullet impact point on the given wind where as the rose by Tuna is showing where to hold off to hit the 10 ring for the given wind direction. Hope it is not confusing you JGee??????

What the guys are saying in trusting your sighters is GOLDEN. Prior to trusting your sighters you have to have confidence in yourself, setup, and rifle. Then and only then I felt I could trust sighters. Now do I have a GREAT rifle? Not sure yet. Need a GREAT shooter to spend the day with to determine that.

Calvin
Click to expand...

IMHO, most people are a lot better shooters than they think they are.
 
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