What has really advanced rimfire accuracy ?

Hambone said:
Pete

Every circus has to have its clown. You know the one that makes all the prat falls and wanders around with the over sized suit and whirly bowtie.

Shame that our clown is such a schmuck.
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I was only rendering an opinion from my experience. I had a big gap between 1998 and 2010 in which I only shot Centerfire. What I have observed over the years is the swing from one barrrel company to another. When I started CF, Shilen was the barrel to have and we did for a couple of years then Lilja was making some absolute "Hummers". Then it was Kriegers etc, etc.

I don't think RF is a lot different. It's about the barrels and ammo and actions and stocks but mostly about driven people who work very hard at trying to win matches. Having said that, nothing much has changed in terms of what is needed. 40X es are still winning matches and a record was set this year with a Sporter wearing an older Lilja barrel. So , how far have we come?
 
When the day comes

that one will be able to walk into a shop that sells Eley, RWS, Lapua or any other quality ammo, buy a brick of it without having to look at the year it as made, the machine it was made on and the batch it came out of, We will have made some meaningful advancement. Until we are there, we haven't come very dern far, IMHO.
 
Absolutely.

You can only nibble around the edge of a problem for so long before you have to take a bite of the curd filling..
 
Hambone said:
Pete

Every circus has to have its clown. You know the one that makes all the prat falls and wanders around with the over sized suit and whirly bowtie.

Shame that our clown is such a schmuck.
Click to expand...

Hey Hammy how'd you do at the keyboard champs? I hear the new Dell's are shooting lots of 250's.

Hey Tuna, I guess we'll have to say the internet is a huge advance, guys like the Hamster can be world champs without ever leaving the family room:rolleyes:
 
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Pete It might be interesting to see what your old 40x would do in a 50/50 match today.I see meaningful advancement.
 
I shot my 40x with a Lilja 4 groove tight bore at Summerville on Sunday.
It faired pretty well against the other action/barrel combinations.

I think it's mostly bullets.

The best action/barrel combination aint squat until you find a good lot.
Not the other way around.
 
The most important contribution to rimfire accuracy was introduction of the tuner, particularly the adjustable version. Sure, barrels are better, actions are improved, ammo is more consistent, rests are better and gunsmithing is likely better. But they all pale when you remove the tuner from the game.
 
Hoke

Good reply ,What is the diference in groop size with and without a tuner?The reason I ask is I find they need to shoot good without a tuner.
 
DaGOB said:
The most important contribution to rimfire accuracy was introduction of the tuner, particularly the adjustable version. Sure, barrels are better, actions are improved, ammo is more consistent, rests are better and gunsmithing is likely better. But they all pale when you remove the tuner from the game.
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Hoke I would be curious how you tune a rifle .........
 
I'd agree Mel,

We live in moments in time so it is never possible to go back. I have tried to do that a number of times only to find that it is impossible to do so.

I have two rifles now that are competative, I feel. It has taken me some time to get into this RF thing and dodging back and fourth between CF & RF at my age doesn't help. Would I go back to a 40X? NO, but only because I would't go back to a RR configuration. I noticed the results of the Easthampton Match we attended listed the rifle you and Gordon shot as being a 40X, eh?

As far as barrels go, perhaps the 6 groove is a big advancement, time will tell. When I was shooting RF years ago, Sporters, as we know them today were not in the picture. The one I have came with a barrel on it that my Smith said would not, could not be competative and it wasn't that old. If I could get my 40X back I am willing to bet that, if it hadn't been shot much since I sold it, it would still be competative. I live at the end of the Pipe so never realllly had a chance then to shoot it against other BR rifles like it.

Interesting to note however; one of the lads who shot against me use to beat me with an out of the box Anschutz sometimes and it shot 250's more than once. All this back when we were learning to use wind flags. My first ones were made from the pattern on BRC out of Balsa panels. I had the first ones in our group. Still 250's appeared each time we had matches, using the IBS target, of course, but still - - - -. Blind Hogs have always been among us I guess.

Like I said, There has been a big hole between then and now but looking back and using, as a reference, what has happened, generally, in the Barrel making world, I truly don't see a heck of a lot of advancment. I haven't experienced what has transpired with ammo over the time I was out of RF but when I started up again, It seemed the very same to me. Find a lot that works in your barrel and buy all you can or can afford right then. Now, I know, there is always a better lot just over the horizon and I know there are magic lots; we had one in the Federal way back that would shoot in everyone's rifle but that was one and only one. I had a lot of low end RWS that would shoot well in everyone's rifle but, generally, from what I see, it is still an ammo chase.

If the 6 grooves erase the ammo chase, I'm all for it and it will simplify things for us. I'm all over it, like everyone else will be. Time will tell. Perhaps they are an advancement but still, that old Lilja did shoot a record this summer and that old Anschutz did win a big match this summer, as I recall.

I will be 67 tomorrow so I am anxious for things to happen more quickly now. My goal now is trying to judisciously spend the Nursing Homes's money before I need to use it :) I am a simple consumer and observer of things I see around me is all. I have never been a brand concious person or hero worshiper. I have always been one to participate in sports rather than be a fan of those who do them for a living. I know and have known a number of famous Sports figures when I was working in that area and the thing I noticed is we all put out trousers on one leg at a time and most of them didn't much admire Fans.
 
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Pete

The 6 grooves are shooting Greg davis shot in some tough conditions.When you get test lots how do you test?
 
All the ammo I have I got from testing in the Rock River barn last winter. All of it shoots in the rifes I bought it for. One lot shoots in both rifles well. It has taken me all summer to get my 10.5 rifle to where it is now, tune wise. While I could shoot 248's with it earlier on occasion since I have been able to utilize the Noodle, I have something to work with now. I didn't use the noodle the weekend of Easthampton or Wallkill in the 10.5 class because I wasn't sure if the rifle would have gone over weight so those scores sucked pretty bad, me not getting it back to even a 244 tune.

I went to the Barn with a branny new barrel that had not been tuner because of poor weather and lack of time. I had to begin from scratch, which was without the tuner; find ammo that looked promising without the tuner, which I was able to do, thanks to Dan Hillough and his help.

What I didn't know and wasn't able to find any help with after the Barn was if the tuner needed more weight. I tried another tuner that was lighter but it wouldn't respond lighter or at the same weight the current tuner I am using responds at so I abandoned that venue. Short of sending the rifle to folks who tune them for fee, I was stuck with the limitations I had then. I guess persistence pays because I do have a tune now I feel competative with. I used one heck of a lot of good Black Box getting there!
 
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I like to test outside with right and left wind to see how far a bullet moves and to see if they go in the same hole in the same condition.
 
Mel Eck said:
I like to test outside with right and left wind to see how far a bullet moves and to see if they go in the same hole in the same condition.
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I wasn't able to do that with the ammo I have now. I knew from past experience that if I found some that worked pretty well I should buy it and Dan had a good number of lots there to work with. It didn't take the good ones long to disapear though. I have enough ammo to last through next year, perhaps, but will be looking now to add to my stash. The ammo I have now shoots fairly well in conditions I think.

I read somewhere that Harry D said whatever works inside will work outside so I went with that as my guide, so to speak. I was also able to use an indoor facility during the Winter to find the best tuner settings. They proved to be helpful but the Noodle and shooting outside showed me which one of those was indeed the best one.

About a month ago I was at wits end knowing my rifle should shoot better but could not make it happen, I didn't think. I decided to give the Noodle one more try and I'm sure glad I did. I know I was rude to a couple of folks in my frustration but also knew I was right in my assessment of the situation. I know it's tough to communicate on here about such things as well and I apologize to those I might have offended.
 
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Sounds like you got it under control.How far in is your tuner?
 
It is @ around 40. I went through the entire range of the tuner last winter beginning with 100 increments then 50 and 25 and then by 10 and 5's. I shot three shot groups at each tuner setting. and in a sequence so that a pattern developed. I then went back and re-shot on the settings that had given the groups with one bullet hole the size of a bullet, which I had 6 of. I went with the one on the lightr end, 20 most of the season. That setting does not work with the noodle but 10 seemed to. It, however, was not smal enough in conditions.

I , on my way to the Easthampton/Wallkill weekend, stopped by the range in Augusta and the conditions were perfect for testing. I got out my test targets and went to the next good hole, 35 and it did not respond. I then went to 40. Bingo!, one tiny hole outside in a light wind that was readable. The groups stay small still, going to 45 so I believe I have my "Muzzle Stopped"; sorry, I couldn't resist :).
 
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Hello

Pete Wass said:
I'd agree Mel,

We live in moments in time so it is never possible to go back. I have tried to do that a number of times only to find that it is impossible to do so.

I have two rifles now that are competative, I feel. It has taken me some time to get into this RF thing and dodging back and fourth between CF & RF at my age doesn't help. Would I go back to a 40X? NO, but only because I would't go back to a RR configuration. I noticed the results of the Easthampton Match we attended listed the rifle you and Gordon shot as being a 40X, eh?

As far as barrels go, perhaps the 6 groove is a big advancement, time will tell. When I was shooting RF years ago, Sporters, as we know them today were not in the picture. The one I have came with a barrel on it that my Smith said would not, could not be competative and it wasn't that old. If I could get my 40X back I am willing to bet that, if it hadn't been shot much since I sold it, it would still be competative. I live at the end of the Pipe so never realllly had a chance then to shoot it against other BR rifles like it.

Interesting to note however; one of the lads who shot against me use to beat me with an out of the box Anschutz sometimes and it shot 250's more than once. All this back when we were learning to use wind flags. My first ones were made from the pattern on BRC out of Balsa panels. I had the first ones in our group. Still 250's appeared each time we had matches, using the IBS target, of course, but still - - - -. Blind Hogs have always been among us I guess.

Like I said, There has been a big hole between then and now but looking back and using, as a reference, what has happened, generally, in the Barrel making world, I truly don't see a heck of a lot of advancment. I haven't experienced what has transpired with ammo over the time I was out of RF but when I started up again, It seemed the very same to me. Find a lot that works in your barrel and buy all you can or can afford right then. Now, I know, there is always a better lot just over the horizon and I know there are magic lots; we had one in the Federal way back that would shoot in everyone's rifle but that was one and only one. I had a lot of low end RWS that would shoot well in everyone's rifle but, generally, from what I see, it is still an ammo chase.

If the 6 grooves erase the ammo chase, I'm all for it and it will simplify things for us. I'm all over it, like everyone else will be. Time will tell. Perhaps they are an advancement but still, that old Lilja did shoot a record this summer and that old Anschutz did win a big match this summer, as I recall.

I will be 67 tomorrow so I am anxious for things to happen more quickly now. My goal now is trying to judisciously spend the Nursing Homes's money before I need to use it :) I am a simple consumer and observer of things I see around me is all. I have never been a brand concious person or hero worshiper. I have always been one to participate in sports rather than be a fan of those who do them for a living. I know and have known a number of famous Sports figures when I was working in that area and the thing I noticed is we all put out trousers on one leg at a time and most of them didn't much admire Fans.
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Hey Pete ,Do you have your Bucket List in order
 
Pete Wass said:
I know and have known a number of famous Sports figures when I was working in that area and the thing I noticed is we all put out trousers on one leg at a time and most of them didn't much admire Fans.
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+1

Fans are just another factor that has to be endured.
 
I know what ya all mean. When I was at this year's Nationals, I had to arrive wearing my Foster Grants and a big floppy hat, riding in my buddy's pick-up so as to not be noticed by all my fans waiting for me at the entrance to the club. But I really don't mind the fans (especially the ones throwing their bras at me) so much at the dang paparazzi. It's getting so bad that I can't step out side my house and take a pee without all them flash bulbs going off. Why, I remember when rimfire BR was a sport that didn't draw much attention and us athletes competed in obscurity. I guess we have BC to blame for that too; The publishing of his book and all the attention it got made rock stars of us all - - - - and then - - - I woke up.

But this could happen to us if we advance rimfire accuracy too far and all become folk heros for it. Be careful.
 
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